Of course I've seen him play. Goff's production is mostly scheme, and personnel driven. Tannehill is more accurate, has a much better arm and can throw on the run better than Goff. And when Goff's protection breaks down, much like it did against Green Bay, he is as vulnerable as Tannehill. Watch the Green Bay game again and tell me where you see some masterful elusiveness from Goff.
Why Can’t We Turn It Around?
- Thread starter JayFin327
- Start date
Arm strength, accuracy , throwing on the run, ability to run with the ball in the read option, and I would say Tannehill reads defenses as well as Goff. You guys seem to forget what Goff looked like when he was playing for Jeff Fisher. Granted, he was a rookie then, but I dare say that if McVay wasn't hired as the head coach of the Rams there would be talk of Goff being one of the biggest busts for a first overall pick in the last decade. Plus, look at the surrounding cast of players he has on that offense,
Fans of 31 other teams would laugh if you put Gase and McVay and Miami's personnel and the Rams personnel in the same category.
Good_Dylan
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I know my opinion is one that is dismissed by many but over the years Ive decided the issue that plagues losing or mediocre franchises (or dominating ones here looking at you NE) is one that should be a league issue and handled from the top down. The NFL is a business and if the product stinks then the business will suffer from top to bottom. Outside of just a few franchises the business stinks and empty stadiums/loss of viewership is happening. Its possible this will never again be fixed in Miami, look no further than Cleveland for your proof. When things get that bad the NFL itself needs to be the higher calling to get them on track.
DolfanISS
Perennial All-Pro
If the question is about this year I think the issues are too big and the personnel is too depleted. We'll probably get some better play after this 10 day layoff but I'm willing to bet the big issues will rear there ugly head in whatever few critical moments the team has left. This team is 2 or 3 more wins done IMO.
DolfanISS
Perennial All-Pro
Whether we want to admit it or not this is the key to our season:
Picture NE without:
Mason or Thuney
Andrews their Center
A DE (Clayborn)
A DT (Shelton)
Best outside WR Josh Gordon
One of their backup LB's (probably doesn't hurt much)
Gronk (Grey was our Starter)
and these guys missing time
Brady (3 games and counting)
Their other outside WR Hogan misses at least one game
McCourty missed 2 games
Flowers misses 2 games (Wake is not on the above list)
Another end misses 2 games
Another end misses 2 games
For McCain Rowe is out for the year so they are worse off.
They would suck. You could do this for any of the top teams and they would suck. I know, excuses, excuses but this is insurmountable.
Picture NE without:
Mason or Thuney
Andrews their Center
A DE (Clayborn)
A DT (Shelton)
Best outside WR Josh Gordon
One of their backup LB's (probably doesn't hurt much)
Gronk (Grey was our Starter)
and these guys missing time
Brady (3 games and counting)
Their other outside WR Hogan misses at least one game
McCourty missed 2 games
Flowers misses 2 games (Wake is not on the above list)
Another end misses 2 games
Another end misses 2 games
For McCain Rowe is out for the year so they are worse off.
They would suck. You could do this for any of the top teams and they would suck. I know, excuses, excuses but this is insurmountable.
84Phins
Active Roster
I'm curious, what is the status of all the head coaches that went thru Miami since Don Shula. Throw in the OC and DCs as well...I think that alone will tell you what kind of staff Miami has hired over the years.
It’s goes back to Shula leaving in my opinion... this team hasn’t been a serious threat since then... a legit contender.
Jimmy’s teams weren’t contenders...Wannstedt’s had no QB and a defense that caved late...he ran the team into the ground before he left.
The truth is... this team hasn’t drafted well overall and failed miserably to go after QB’s in the draft that would have altered history and the Dolphin course.
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So Goff didn’t set the league on fire as a rookie, and that is “evidence” that Tannehill is better?
I don’t even know how to respond to this. Goff is one of the most accurate passers I’ve seen in years. Do yourself a favor and watch some of his highlights this season. Or watch just his game against the Vikings. Then tell me Tannehill is better. Goff is dropping throws into spots that are incredible.
lbmclean_nocal
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top down and long term. simple as that
we don't have long term vision and god knows when we will
we don't have long term vision and god knows when we will
You can’t convince the same mentality that has led to Miami malaise that they are wrong about a simple basic premise of football.....
Without a winner at QB...you are mediocre.
Tannehill is not a champion.
Did this team make any effort in 2016 to move up from #8 to get to Goff or Wentz?....no
It stuck with a mediocre Ryan Tannehill.
In 2017....did this team try to move up 10-12 spots from 22 to get Mahomes or Watson?...no
It stuck with mediocre Ryan Tannehill and drafted a project pass rusher who sucks.
This is why the Miami Dolphins can’t ascend !
Can't think of too many having post Dolphins success. Lazor maybe? Surely not anyone 10 years and beyond. Bowles will be gone soon. Joseph clinging to a lifeline, Philbin lol. Don't see any rising stars on this coaching staff. We are bad at selecting coaches and those coaches are bad at building a staff.
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Well, if we're talking coaches in general, there are some who have done OK for themselves in some way or another.
Bowles was a good DC who has had a mixed record as a head coach. I personally started to believe he is a bad head coach after some insane things that happened in the last couple of years with the Jets, but he's had success post-Dolphins. Another case of a guy who is a good coordinator but not a good head coach.
Not sure about Vance Joseph. I don't think Denver's problems are all on him. I feel like John Elway is extremely overrated as a personnel guy and that once they pushed out Brian Xanders, the talent on that roster has been evaporating quickly.
Dan Campbell is doing well in New Orleans and currently getting some talk about being a head coaching candidate again. And good for Dan, I'm a fan of his. I thought he deserved honest consideration for the full time job and I wish he had stayed on with Gase.
Bill Lazor is doing OK in Cincinnati. I'll give the guy some credit. I still think he's a bad enough offensive coordinator to make Matt Burke look good, but he's having some success there right now.
The one that absolutely floors me is Zac Taylor being one of the Vegas favorites to be the next Browns coach? Is that a damn joke???? After Taylor left Miami, he became the OC of the Cincinnati Bearcats and his offense was a disaster. Hiring him as an NFL head coach based on his resume would be the most Browns move imaginable. I don't know who this kid's agent is, but he's a damn superstar in his field.
Tony Sparano (R.I.P.) did a fine job as an OL coach after he failed as an offensive coordinator. He was just over-promoted.
The one that really pisses me off honestly is GM Rick Spielman in Minnesota. Spielman did a horrible job when he was here, but as we look back in hindsight, I think it is even more clear than ever that Dave Wannstedt was the problem there. He's done very well in Minnesota and of course, Dave Wannstedt currently works on television and is awful there, too.
Pachyderm_Wave
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Miami’s dedication to mediocrity is best understood when you focus on where they’ve failed to allocate proper draft resources, versus where the top organizations in the NFL have allocated their draft resources in the same time frame. Miami has failed to properly invest at quarterback, linebacker, and defensive back. The effort simply wasn’t there, especially at quarterback and linebacker. Meanwhile, Miami has thrown entirely too many draft resources at the offensive line.
Since 2001, the Patriots, Steelers, Broncos, Ravens, and Packers have been the most consistent organizations in terms of making the playoffs and appearing in the Superbowl. Pay attention to where the majority of their draft picks in first 3 rounds were allocated, as opposed to where Miami’s have been:
Quarterback:
Patriots – 4
Broncos – 4
Miami – 4
Ravens – 3
Packers – 2
Steelers – 2
The Patriots have used 4 draft picks in the first 3 rounds on QB’s during the period that they’ve had Tom Brady. If you look at Miami, it might appear that they’ve allocated the same resources in 4 draft picks in the first 3 rounds to the QB position also in that time frame. Not the same thing. One of those was on Pat White, which doesn’t count. The point is that Miami used 2nd rounders on Chad Henne and John Beck when they had absolutely nothing at the position to begin with in terms of starter or depth. The Packers have dedicated the same amount of draft resources to the QB position in the first 3 rounds with Aaron Rodgers as their starter that Miami has in the past 18 years. Let that sink in.
When you look at the quarterbacks Miami has passed on, and the lack of dedication to spending the resources necessary to create some surplus for themselves at the most important position in sports – it’s not hard to understand why Miami has been so poor for so long. Your goal should always be to try and create surplus for yourself at the quarterback position for quality depth and/or to flip in exchange for more draft capital. This is how good organizations stay ahead and play the draft game. It’s unfathomable that Miami was never able to catch on to how this works.
Linebacker:
Steelers – 11
Ravens – 10
Packers – 7
Patriots – 7
Miami – 6
Broncos – 4
Think about the linebackers Miami has passed on over the past 18 years. HOF’er after HOF’er after HOF’er. They simply haven’t put forth the effort. Teams like the Ravens and Steelers consider the linebacker neighborhood prime real estate. Miami chooses to act like just a ditch. Linebacker is such a critical position to accumulate talent and depth in the NFL. They simply haven’t put forth the effort here in the first 3 rounds, and it has shown Sunday after Sunday over the past nearly 2 decades.
Defensive Back:
Packers – 16
Patriots – 16
Broncos – 13
Steelers – 12
Ravens – 9
Miami - 9
Pitiful. This is another position where you must acquire talent and depth. You can’t do it if you’re not spending the picks there in the first 3 rounds. The few picks Miami has spent here have mostly been disappointments. They’re giving themselves no margin for error at the most important positions. This is the pattern Miami has established.
Offensive Line:
Miami – 13
Ravens – 11
Steelers – 9
Broncos – 9
Patriots – 8
Packers – 5
Miami has adopted a false philosophy in terms of how much they should be allocating to the offensive line in the first 3 rounds of the draft. They’ve invested more than any of these other teams over the past 18 years, and still can’t put together a functioning offensive line. Half of these picks they spent on offensive lineman should’ve been spent on quarterbacks, linebackers, and defensive backs.
Here’s the bottom line - the difference between Miami and the most consistent organizations in the NFL isn’t along the offensive line. Miami needs to get that out of their head if they ever want to stop doing the same thing over and over again and stay mired in mediocrity. The difference between Miami and the best organizations in the league is the quality and depth at the quarterback, linebacker and defensive back positions. They have to change what they’ve been doing in terms of how they think and how they perceive their own football team in order to ever get it turned around.
Since 2001, the Patriots, Steelers, Broncos, Ravens, and Packers have been the most consistent organizations in terms of making the playoffs and appearing in the Superbowl. Pay attention to where the majority of their draft picks in first 3 rounds were allocated, as opposed to where Miami’s have been:
Quarterback:
Patriots – 4
Broncos – 4
Miami – 4
Ravens – 3
Packers – 2
Steelers – 2
The Patriots have used 4 draft picks in the first 3 rounds on QB’s during the period that they’ve had Tom Brady. If you look at Miami, it might appear that they’ve allocated the same resources in 4 draft picks in the first 3 rounds to the QB position also in that time frame. Not the same thing. One of those was on Pat White, which doesn’t count. The point is that Miami used 2nd rounders on Chad Henne and John Beck when they had absolutely nothing at the position to begin with in terms of starter or depth. The Packers have dedicated the same amount of draft resources to the QB position in the first 3 rounds with Aaron Rodgers as their starter that Miami has in the past 18 years. Let that sink in.
When you look at the quarterbacks Miami has passed on, and the lack of dedication to spending the resources necessary to create some surplus for themselves at the most important position in sports – it’s not hard to understand why Miami has been so poor for so long. Your goal should always be to try and create surplus for yourself at the quarterback position for quality depth and/or to flip in exchange for more draft capital. This is how good organizations stay ahead and play the draft game. It’s unfathomable that Miami was never able to catch on to how this works.
Linebacker:
Steelers – 11
Ravens – 10
Packers – 7
Patriots – 7
Miami – 6
Broncos – 4
Think about the linebackers Miami has passed on over the past 18 years. HOF’er after HOF’er after HOF’er. They simply haven’t put forth the effort. Teams like the Ravens and Steelers consider the linebacker neighborhood prime real estate. Miami chooses to act like just a ditch. Linebacker is such a critical position to accumulate talent and depth in the NFL. They simply haven’t put forth the effort here in the first 3 rounds, and it has shown Sunday after Sunday over the past nearly 2 decades.
Defensive Back:
Packers – 16
Patriots – 16
Broncos – 13
Steelers – 12
Ravens – 9
Miami - 9
Pitiful. This is another position where you must acquire talent and depth. You can’t do it if you’re not spending the picks there in the first 3 rounds. The few picks Miami has spent here have mostly been disappointments. They’re giving themselves no margin for error at the most important positions. This is the pattern Miami has established.
Offensive Line:
Miami – 13
Ravens – 11
Steelers – 9
Broncos – 9
Patriots – 8
Packers – 5
Miami has adopted a false philosophy in terms of how much they should be allocating to the offensive line in the first 3 rounds of the draft. They’ve invested more than any of these other teams over the past 18 years, and still can’t put together a functioning offensive line. Half of these picks they spent on offensive lineman should’ve been spent on quarterbacks, linebackers, and defensive backs.
Here’s the bottom line - the difference between Miami and the most consistent organizations in the NFL isn’t along the offensive line. Miami needs to get that out of their head if they ever want to stop doing the same thing over and over again and stay mired in mediocrity. The difference between Miami and the best organizations in the league is the quality and depth at the quarterback, linebacker and defensive back positions. They have to change what they’ve been doing in terms of how they think and how they perceive their own football team in order to ever get it turned around.
DolfanISS
Perennial All-Pro
Excellent post. I think the site unconsciously has the same feeling as the TEAM. If I had a nickel for all of the, "fix the offensive line, everything is fixed" posts I've seen I could retire.