Why Liam Eichenberg is exactly what the Dolphins needed up front | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Why Liam Eichenberg is exactly what the Dolphins needed up front

TuaClockSomewhere said:
We love versatility. Unfortunately, at OT “versatility” usually means you’re not a true OT. We have 3 of those on the roster at the moment
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You seem to believe there are "true" left or right tackles.

I call BS!!!!!

I only see players who have been trained and played at those specific positions in college. Some have been trained to play at both positions and have played at both positions in college.

Now colleges may be good at placing players at positions, but there are a lot of colleges and a lot of coaches that need to win right now. Many of those coaches are faced with position needs at tackle where not all their players are that good.

I can see scenarios where there a team has only one really good tackle, while the other tackles are just so-so. That college coach will probably use his best tackle at the end of the line that corresponds to the arm his QB throws with; usually left tackle.

Now consider this next version of the scenario where the best tackle he has plays right tackle great and left tackle pretty good, while all his other tackles are only so-so. Where do you think the coach is going to play his excellent right tackle?

You should have been able to guess this answer correctly, he would play him at left tackle because this would give him a very good left tackle and a so-so right tackle. Otherwise he would have had a great right tackle and only a so-so left tackle.

See how easy it is to recognize that what you see coming out of college is not necessarily what you end up with in the NFL. There are many scenarios where QB's become receivers and a few where TE's become QB's.

Surely as an NFL fan, and particularly as a Dolphin fan, you are aware of these scenario's! - LOL

How many players do we have now that are in different positions then they played in HS, or at one time in college?
 
KingHydra said:
Not really. With your statement "your line is only as good as its weakest link" isnt at all accurate in any context. According to you, signing Orlando Pace does nothing if you still have the weakest link from last year still on the line. We've all seen that this isnt true. One super strong lineman or even just an upgrade can and will cause a chain reaction that strengthens all around them.
Using your philosophy, you can have a below average Guard and have 3 Pro Bowl players in every other line position and your line is only as good as your Center.
That's highly untrue.
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Your premise is way off. Say you replace Laremy Tunsil with the greatest left tackle of all time Anthony Munoz but you have Johnathan Martin at right tackle, how did you improve your whole offensive line? You improved at the left tackle position by a certain degree, but you still have a gaping hole somewhere else. The point being. is you just have to be good enough in order to have an effective functional offense. You don't need All Pros at every position on the offensive line to be efficient. Would I like to have an Anthony Munoz at left tackle? Sure, but a Laremy Tunsil is good enough.
 
DPhinz_DPhinz said:
I didn't say you did. I asked you a question. You didn't answer it, so I'll ask it again.

"So multi-year starters at major programs are better RTs than those who have done the job in the NFL for 10+ games?"

You have a brain and an opinion on the subject. if not, you wouldn't be on this post splashing around.

The Tyson quote is overly dramatic because you are reading it from your level of understanding. Everyone has Eichenberg penciled in a RT because he played LT at Notre Dame. He hasn't played a down in the NFL against a pass rusher that is paid very well to beat him...and face this type of player every week.

This is why the Tyson quote is appropriate in my eyes. Let Eichenberg get in there against pros before we anoint him the RT. Hunt has proven himself on the edge.
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Dude, don't waste your time arguing with people on here. If you disagree with them, they take it way too personally. I've seen every snap Eichenberg has taken. He's solid and tough. He's up there with the others they've had of recent but just a bit below them. I think he's a bit underrated as a pass blocker because Ian Book loves to hold that ball and run. So he did have to hold blocks. Never know till they play.
 
Ceiling and floor looks rather similar to me

Miami should aim higher with a top 50 pick but they didn’t aim higher with a top 15 pick just 2 years ago so...
 
hoops said:
Ceiling and floor looks rather similar to me

Miami should aim higher with a top 50 pick but they didn’t aim higher with a top 15 pick just 2 years ago so...
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Yeah, it's not a huge upside pick but I'll be shocked if he flops. Wilkins caliber is a good comparison. I think I described Liam's style as monotone. I'll stick with that. He does know how to mirror. That's his best quality, the understanding of the position. Then it's just a matter of how he fares against the elite athletes given his lack of ideal feet combined with relatively narrow torso and short arms.

He kind of reminds me of a more athletic version of some of the guys Miami used at right tackle in the '70s, the Norm Evans and Mike Current types. They were smart dependable players who prepared well and gave everything they had. Once in a while it wasn't enough. These days with considerably more passes thrown that type of player gets into more trouble against the wrong opponent.

Hunt has worse technique at tackle than Liam. But Hunt is a scrapper who somehow gets the job done even if everything looks wrong.
 
hoops said:
Ceiling and floor looks rather similar to me

Miami should aim higher with a top 50 pick but they didn’t aim higher with a top 15 pick just 2 years ago so...
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Hard to predict who will be bust or be future pro bowlers, let alone the ceiling and floor of a specific player.

There's a huge difference between pick 13 and 42. If Eich really is a solid but unspectacular player that can hold down the RT spot, I won't be mad about the pick at his spot. I wouldn't have that attitude if we picked him 13.

The high floor/low ceiling label comes from the fact that he's an older prospect that is far from a physical freak, yet managed to perform at a very high level against good competition for 2 straight seasons.

But I think his athleticism concerns are a bit overblown. Here is how he tested in the 20 shuttle, 3 cone, and bench press in comparison to all 1st round OT's taken in the previous 5 years.

shuttle.png

3-cone.png

bench.png

He is a smart player w good mirroring and technique (does need to lower his hand placement) that has improved every year. Despite concerns over his athleticism and arms, he managed to shut down future pros on a consistent basis.

I think we got a good prospect, but I'm not really anymore confident in calling his floor safe than I am limiting what I think his ceiling could be.
 
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TheRevoltingBlob said:
Hard to predict who will be bust or be future pro bowlers, let alone the ceiling and floor of a specific player.

There's a huge difference between pick 13 and 42. If Eich really is a solid but unspectacular player that can hold down the RT spot, I won't be mad about the pick at his spot. I wouldn't have that attitude if we picked him 13.

The high floor/low ceiling label comes from the fact that he's an older prospect that isn't a physical freak that managed to perform at a very high level against good competition for 2 straight seasons.

But I think his athleticism concerns are a bit overblown. Here is how he tested in the 20 shuttle, 3 cone, and bench press in comparison to all 1st round OT's taken in the previous 5 years.

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View attachment 76204

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He is a smart player w good mirroring and technique (does need to lower his hand placement) that has improved every year. Despite concerns over his athleticism and arms, he managed to shut down future pros on a consistent basis.

I think we got a good prospect, but I'm not really anymore confident in calling his floor safe than I am limiting what I think his ceiling could be.
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im fully aware of how he tested and I don’t think his tape backs those test scores up. Which should be a flag in and of itself.

he’s a little more athletic looking and top 50 worthy even on his junior tape but I don’t know if it’s weight gain for the next level on his senior tape or playing thru injury but it’s not the same.
 
Im having Jonathan Martin flashbacks here.
If he gets smoked at the POC by NFL talent then his 'technical skill' wont ve worth a turd.
 
Ray R said:
You seem to believe there are "true" left or right tackles.

I call BS!!!!!

I only see players who have been trained and played at those specific positions in college. Some have been trained to play at both positions and have played at both positions in college.

Now colleges may be good at placing players at positions, but there are a lot of colleges and a lot of coaches that need to win right now. Many of those coaches are faced with position needs at tackle where not all their players are that good.

I can see scenarios where there a team has only one really good tackle, while the other tackles are just so-so. That college coach will probably use his best tackle at the end of the line that corresponds to the arm his QB throws with; usually left tackle.

Now consider this next version of the scenario where the best tackle he has plays right tackle great and left tackle pretty good, while all his other tackles are only so-so. Where do you think the coach is going to play his excellent right tackle?

You should have been able to guess this answer correctly, he would play him at left tackle because this would give him a very good left tackle and a so-so right tackle. Otherwise he would have had a great right tackle and only a so-so left tackle.

See how easy it is to recognize that what you see coming out of college is not necessarily what you end up with in the NFL. There are many scenarios where QB's become receivers and a few where TE's become QB's.

Surely as an NFL fan, and particularly as a Dolphin fan, you are aware of these scenario's! - LOL

How many players do we have now that are in different positions then they played in HS, or at one time in college?
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Not sure how you read my post and inferred that I was speaking to guys playing different sides.

My post about Miami having 3 guys who are “versatile” simply because they aren’t true OT’s was actually more about them being better suited for OG, but can play OT.

Robert Hunt and Fluker are OG’s ideally, with Hunt proving he can play some OT. All of Eichenbergs measurables point to a guy that should be playing OG. I hope he can make up for his lack of length and foot speed with technique and hand usage, but that is yet to be determined.

My original post was moreso a joke as we know this regime places a premium on versatility. Our OL “versatility” seems to be more out of a lack of having two true OT solutions. There’s three on the roster now, and we just traded the 4th (Ereck Flowers).
 
Eichenberg is a great run blocker, who gave up no sacks in two yrs. His qb ran all over the place behind him, Held the ball for up to 10 secs before throwing, yet he never gave up a sack. This is the part of the game we are concerned about. I believe chances are he will be OK handling guys for 3 secs. He is an athlete and is very strong,yes he might have short arms but he is very well-coached . Greir believes in him and so do I
 
Well coached and good technique help little if the opposition players are too fast or too strong.
Can Eichenberg handle the Aaron Donalds of the world?
If he cant it's Jonathan fkn Martin all over again.
 
Eichenberg is a natural Right Tackle, run blocks well. Plus, he gave up no sacks because he pass blocks well too, just not at a elite OLT level.

MUCH better RT prospect than Hunt; his feet are much quicker than Hunt's. If Eichenberg is ready day one, Hunt will be an ELITE run-blocking guard. It could be the best right side in the league, and that's the goal, our guy is a lefty.
 
Ray R said:
You seem to believe there are "true" left or right tackles.

I call BS!!!!!

I only see players who have been trained and played at those specific positions in college. Some have been trained to play at both positions and have played at both positions in college.

Now colleges may be good at placing players at positions, but there are a lot of colleges and a lot of coaches that need to win right now. Many of those coaches are faced with position needs at tackle where not all their players are that good.

I can see scenarios where there a team has only one really good tackle, while the other tackles are just so-so. That college coach will probably use his best tackle at the end of the line that corresponds to the arm his QB throws with; usually left tackle.

Now consider this next version of the scenario where the best tackle he has plays right tackle great and left tackle pretty good, while all his other tackles are only so-so. Where do you think the coach is going to play his excellent right tackle?

You should have been able to guess this answer correctly, he would play him at left tackle because this would give him a very good left tackle and a so-so right tackle. Otherwise he would have had a great right tackle and only a so-so left tackle.

See how easy it is to recognize that what you see coming out of college is not necessarily what you end up with in the NFL. There are many scenarios where QB's become receivers and a few where TE's become QB's.

Surely as an NFL fan, and particularly as a Dolphin fan, you are aware of these scenario's! - LOL

How many players do we have now that are in different positions then they played in HS, or at one time in college?
Click to expand...
This is one of the issues I have with this coaching staff. Playing guys out of position or not playing to certain players strength. Clearly from watching film Solomon Kindley played better at LG and looked natural at that spot, same goes for Hunt . Hunt is a guard not a tackle. Gaskins is really good reciever out of the backfield but for whatever reason we didn’t take advantage of that. Before Flores when we had tannehill, the one thing tannehill did great was throw on the run, we never used his best skill to help him be better. Things like that piss me off.
 
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