Why the Phins wont and should not draft a QB in the 1st

[Boik14]

That can be said about any position. Why risk paying a OLB, CB, or LT 1st round money if we can find one later on? That is the draft. You need to take some risks and be strong enough in your convictions that your player pans out.

Agreed but the risk of failure on QB's is the 2nd highest of any position (wr being the 1st). Based on the risk of failure and the cost of the position you can reduce the risk of a wasted pick. I think that makes sense.

 

[Motion]

Agreed but the risk of failure on QB's is the 2nd highest of any position (wr being the 1st). Based on the risk of failure and the cost of the position you can reduce the risk of a wasted pick. I think that makes sense.

But the risk/reward ratio is so much more magnified at the QB position.

 

[sports24/7]

But the risk/reward ratio is so much more magnified at the QB position.

Exactly. If that risk pays off we will have a juggernaut offense for years to come. To me it seems like the risk is worth it.

 

[Motion]

Exactly. If that risk pays off we will have a juggernaut offense for years to come. To me it seems like the risk is worth it.

+1

 

[Boik14]

What exactly is his track record? I know he traded for Brooks which doesn't seem like too great of a find right now. He became the GM of the Saints in 2000 which was already after Jake Delhomme was drafted. Even still no matter how good his track record is taking a QB later on is a much greater risk than taking one in the first. Jay Cutler has the potential to be a very good QB. Why wouldn't we take a guy with that big of an upside at the one position we need more than any other on the field?

Delhomme, was originally drafted as a 7th rd pick was signed as a FA (on the waiver wire) by Mueller during 2000, the same year Mueller drafted Bulger (before idiot Haslett cut him). Brooks he traded a 4th for (to GB) and gave them 2 pro bowls and 3 good season. How is that anything short of a great trade. You traded a depth pick for a guy who was a top 3 Qb in your conference. granted Brooks has fallen from grace but no matter how you turn the argument 2 pro bowls in 3 years is worth a 4th rd pick everytime especially when its a qb.

Second it can be argued that DB's and not QB is our biggest need. You can talk about Frerotte's Rating but ill dwell on actual results. 18 td/12 int. Compared to our secondary getting roasted like chicken the first half of the year.

While Cutler has potential, again it comes down to risk of failure and reaching for a guy 10-15 picks earlier then his ability says we should.

 

[Boik14]

But the risk/reward ratio is so much more magnified at the QB position.

I believe the Broncos were the last team to win a SB with something other than a marginal QB. Dilfer's the only 1st rd pick to win since then and he did it on a small contract with a different team who's carried his butt during 6 game sthe offense couldnt even score a TD. You win with D and great skill position players on offense and as long as you have a qb who doesnt turn it over youre golden.

 

[Motion]

I believe the Broncos were the last team to win a SB with something other than a marginal QB. Dilfer's the only 1st rd pick to win since then and he did it on a small contract with a different team who's carried his butt during 6 game sthe offense couldnt even score a TD. You win with D and great skill position players on offense and as long as you have a qb who doesnt turn it over youre golden.

So basically what your saying is build up the defense more and we'll win the SB with Gus?




BTW, Did you see who Kiper had at pick 32 of his mock?

 

[sports24/7]

Delhomme, was originally drafted as a 7th rd pick was signed as a FA (on the waiver wire) by Mueller during 2000, the same year Mueller drafted Bulger (before idiot Haslett cut him). Brooks he traded a 4th for (to GB) and gave them 2 pro bowls and 3 good season. How is that anything short of a great trade. You traded a depth pick for a guy who was a top 3 Qb in your conference. granted Brooks has fallen from grace but no matter how you turn the argument 2 pro bowls in 3 years is worth a 4th rd pick everytime especially when its a qb.

Second it can be argued that DB's and not QB is our biggest need. You can talk about Frerotte's Rating but ill dwell on actual results. 18 td/12 int. Compared to our secondary getting roasted like chicken the first half of the year.

While Cutler has potential, again it comes down to risk of failure and reaching for a guy 10-15 picks earlier then his ability says we should.

Either way no matter how good his track record is, you have a better chance of success with Cutler, Lienart, or Young than you do with Hackney, Croyle, and Whitehurst.

 

[Boik14]

So basically what your saying is build up the defense more and we'll win the SB with Gus?




BTW, Did you see who Kiper had at pick 32 of his mock?

Im saying if we found someone who was a slight improvement over Gus we could do it. Brady was a baby when he did it. Dilfer still stunk. Warner came off the streets and did it. 9th rd Brad Johnson did it. The key trait: a great D. Even Warner's Rams were extremely strong in +/- cause tehir D was top 5 in TO's forced and top 10 overall.

I havent seen Kiper's draft. Rarely read up on Kiper's picks anymore. What did you want me to see?

 

[Boik14]

Either way no matter how good his track record is, you have a better chance of success with Cutler, Lienart, or Young than you do with Hackney, Croyle, and Whitehurst.

I hate Hackney and Whitehurst. I never mentioned them for that reason. I think Young is going to be a colassal bust too but thats a matter of opinion right now til proven otherwise. And as far as Cutler goes, again I like his ability but hes a 2nd rd player. 16 is at least 12-15 picks too early. If we drop down and pick up extra picks Id say maybe.

 

[sports24/7]

I believe the Broncos were the last team to win a SB with something other than a marginal QB. Dilfer's the only 1st rd pick to win since then and he did it on a small contract with a different team who's carried his butt during 6 game sthe offense couldnt even score a TD. You win with D and great skill position players on offense and as long as you have a qb who doesnt turn it over youre golden.

Thats not entirely true. The Pats don't win one title without Brady and Warner was more than a marginal QB for the Rams. They were not early draft picks, but were still good QBs. Their respective teams just got lucky that they found them. We can hope to get lucky and if not try again next year and so on leaving us very vulnerable, or we can make our best effort at getting a future Brady or Warner for our team with Cutler.

 

[sports24/7]

I hate Hackney and Whitehurst. I never mentioned them for that reason. I think Young is going to be a colassal bust too but thats a matter of opinion right now til proven otherwise. And as far as Cutler goes, again I like his ability but hes a 2nd rd player. 16 is at least 12-15 picks too early. If we drop down and pick up extra picks Id say maybe.

I was just using their names as examples. A QB with a first round grade has a much better chance at success than a QB with a lower grade. Cutler will not be there in the second roun either. I don't really understand why exactly you value him so much lower than everyone else, but the truth is it doesn't matter what either of us think. It comes down to what Saban and Mueller think and if they think Cutler is our guy and he is there they will take him. If not they won't and hopefully they will have a plan on how to bring in a good QB.

 

[Boik14]

Thats not entirely true. The Pats don't win one title without Brady and Warner was more than a marginal QB for the Rams. They were not early draft picks, but were still good QBs. Their respective teams just got lucky that they found them. We can hope to get lucky and if not try again next year and so on leaving us very vulnerable, or we can make our best effort at getting a future Brady or Warner for our team with Cutler.

I never said the pats would have won without Brady or the rams would have won without warner. Just that they were supported by defenses ranging from great to very good. We can save cap money allowing us to build that D by drafting something other than a Qb in rd 1 which will kill our cap flexibility and our chances to sign a ton of depth and load up to avoid any potential injuries killing our chances.

 

[Motion]

I havent seen Kiper's draft. Rarely read up on Kiper's picks anymore. What did you want me to see?

In regards to the little conversation we had the other day, he had Chad Jackson going to Seattle at #32.

 

[Boik14]

I was just using their names as examples. A QB with a first round grade has a much better chance at success than a QB with a lower grade. Cutler will not be there in the second roun either. I don't really understand why exactly you value him so much lower than everyone else, but the truth is it doesn't matter what either of us think. It comes down to what Saban and Mueller think and if they think Cutler is our guy and he is there they will take him. If not they won't and hopefully they will have a plan on how to bring in a good QB.

It also comes at a much higher risk. We can debate this all night. You question my philosphy, I question yours. I dont care though cause mines been proven right based on the last decade.

I never said Cutler would be there in rd2. Mainly cause i know some qb needy team will reach for him in rd 1. That doesnt change the fact that his ability really says hes a 2nd rd pick What is so hard to understand? I dont value him lower than everyone else, everyone else just values him too highly.

At least we agree it comes down to saban and mueller. I dont doubt for a second they will shy off a qb in rd 1.