Brandon Marshall tells Davone Bess that Bess will have a pro bowl year | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Brandon Marshall tells Davone Bess that Bess will have a pro bowl year

ckparrothead said:
I think you're taking what I am saying to an unnecessary extreme.

As I said, he's a very good player, better than I initially thought when Miami traded him, but that doesn't mean his production isn't still a product of their system and of being next to Randy Moss. It absolutely is. I can think of a fair number of WRs I'd take above him including all the ones you mentioned.

Edelman doesn't have much trouble replacing Wes' production when he goes in. I think the bigger issue is that he doesn't take up the attention that a Wes Welker does. Edelman's production matches what Welker's usually is, but the rest of the receivers go down in production.
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I apologize for the stretch. However if we were having a draft from today, a few of those players would most certainly go ahead of wes. And he does certainly benefit from having Moss has the premier wideout next to him, as well as Brady as his quarterback. But as in my previous post, Larry Fitz benefits from (and now benefited) from having werner and boldin. Wayne had Peyton and Marvin Harrisson. Even look at Ochocino when Housh ruled the middle of the field and Carson was playing well. You can't discredit Wes because of his supporting cast. And your point about Wes allowing the receivers around him to post better numbers is truly indicative of how a slot receiver dictates how defenses have to defend the Patriot offense.
 
damanref10 said:
He wasn't the elite receiver we know him as today until he got to new england.. pains me to say it. As a dolphin in the year before he was traded he had 67 receptions for 687 yards and 1 td. Average at best.
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we just didn't know how to use him and didn't run that type of offense that displayed his strengths. i'm sure bess would be putting up similar numbers there. like i said, the only thing that separates the two for me is welker's elusiveness once he gets the ball in his hands. hard to bring down is an understatement. we'll see how his recovery goes and if he can get that shiftiness back.

agreed that he wasn't the elite receiver here - but is that b/c he suddenly became this amazing receiver or b/c he was stuck in our then crappy offense? i'll give you its a little of both but mainly its the latter.
 
BobDole said:
we just didn't know how to use him and didn't run that type of offense that displayed his strengths. i'm sure bess would be putting up similar numbers there. like i said, the only thing that separates the two for me is welker's elusiveness once he gets the ball in his hands. hard to bring down is an understatement. we'll see how his recovery goes and if he can get that shiftiness back.

agreed that he wasn't the elite receiver here - but is that b/c he suddenly became this amazing receiver or b/c he was stuck in our then crappy offense? i'll give you its a little of both but mainly its the latter.
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Probably a very strong combination of us being inept, him becoming better, and the patriots being a much better organization at the time
 
Has anyone realized yet that Miami is gonna have a real passing attack this year? Football season can't come soon enough. HuGhg* *Ptooie Jets. You're gonna look like some mass sissies when we get done wit yo ***.
 
just imagine how happy ricky and ronnie have to be bout this year. No more eight in the box.....been awhile since we've seen teams respect our passing game.
 
BobDole said:
we just didn't know how to use him and didn't run that type of offense that displayed his strengths. i'm sure bess would be putting up similar numbers there. like i said, the only thing that separates the two for me is welker's elusiveness once he gets the ball in his hands. hard to bring down is an understatement. we'll see how his recovery goes and if he can get that shiftiness back.

agreed that he wasn't the elite receiver here - but is that b/c he suddenly became this amazing receiver or b/c he was stuck in our then crappy offense? i'll give you its a little of both but mainly its the latter.
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Definately dont agree that Bess or many other receivers would put up his numbers over a season. why hasnt it been done in Arizona or even STL during the Martz tenure. On paper and combine he dos not seem a great player but what he does on the fiel week in and week out is quite amazing. Teams plan on stopping Welker, its not like they ignore Welker because Moss is out there.
 
dlockz said:
Definately dont agree that Bess or many other receivers would put up his numbers over a season. why hasnt it been done in Arizona or even STL during the Martz tenure. On paper and combine he dos not seem a great player but what he does on the fiel week in and week out is quite amazing. Teams plan on stopping Welker, its not like they ignore Welker because Moss is out there.
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don't get me wrong - welker is damn good - but i think you could plug similar players in that offense for similar results. like CK said, look what edelman did when welker went out. same production basically.

as far as arizona and st louis - it kind of has been done, hasn't it? fitz and boldin (adjusting for games missed by anquan) have both had 3 straight 100-ish catch, 1000 receiving yard seasons in arizona. the difference in arizona are the catches that breaston takes away from that bunch - where NE doesn't have close to as good a 3rd option as that. even breaston had 1000 receiving yards a few years back. same thing in st louis with bruce and holt. now the question is do i think that welker is on the same level as anquan or a younger holt? no i do not. i feel his production has come from that system that compliments his abilities so well - but he's still a damn good receiver nonetheless.

the only analogy i can come with off the top of my head is joe montana. he was an amazing west coast QB - the best ever. had he gone to another type of offense i don't think he would have been nearly as productive - but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been a great QB. i just don't think his name would be included in the 'all-time' category had he gone to a different type of offense. does that make any sense?
 
BobDole said:
don't get me wrong - welker is damn good - but i think you could plug similar players in that offense for similar results. like CK said, look what edelman did when welker went out. same production basically.

as far as arizona and st louis - it kind of has been done, hasn't it? fitz and boldin (adjusting for games missed by anquan) have both had 3 straight 100-ish catch, 1000 receiving yard seasons in arizona. the difference in arizona are the catches that breaston takes away from that bunch - where NE doesn't have close to as good a 3rd option as that. even breaston had 1000 receiving yards a few years back. same thing in st louis with bruce and holt. now the question is do i think that welker is on the same level as anquan or a younger holt? no i do not. i feel his production has come from that system that compliments his abilities so well - but he's still a damn good receiver nonetheless.

the only analogy i can come with off the top of my head is joe montana. he was an amazing west coast QB - the best ever. had he gone to another type of offense i don't think he would have been nearly as productive - but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been a great QB. i just don't think his name would be included in the 'all-time' category had he gone to a different type of offense. does that make any sense?
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Well with edelman you have to base it on more than 3 games and actually Welker missed 3 games last year basically so it was more like 9.5 last season. I dont think you can just compare over a three game period though. Welker was better last year than he had ever been and thats saying alot. Im also pretty sure when Edelman first came in teams were not like oh no there goes edelman. Also wouldnt his number be more like 6 a game since he started 7 games.
 
dlockz said:
Well with edelman you have to base it on more than 3 games and actually Welker missed 3 games last year basically so it was more like 9.5 last season. I dont think you can just compare over a three game period though. Welker was better last year than he had ever been and thats saying alot. Im also pretty sure when Edelman first came in teams were not like oh no there goes edelman. Also wouldnt his number be more like 6 a game since he started 7 games.
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yeah i know but its all i got to work with. its the only time he's really been out, so ...

what about the arizona/st louis stuff and my awesome montana analogy? :tongue:

edit : never mind. you got it in there.
 
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BobDole said:
yeah i know but its all i got to work with. its the only time he's really been out, so ...

what about the arizona/st louis stuff and my awesome montana analogy? :tongue:
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The thing is he has been in the same scenario to a degree and outdid many of the players that most teams would take over him. Every year in the draft players like Welker are overlooked because of what happens at combine and not what happens on field.
Just look how we couldnt even replace Welker's production with a first round pick in Ginn.
Im your point on with alot of your arguement for sure but Welker is not just a product like many make him out to be and people assume he is just being covered by linebackers all the time. Rewatch the superbowl and see who the Giants were concentrating on as the game went on. Hint it wasnt Moss.
 
dlockz said:
The thing is he has been in the same scenario to a degree and outdid many of the players that most teams would take over him. Every year in the draft players like Welker are overlooked because of what happens at combine and not what happens on field.
Just look how we couldnt even replace Welker's production with a first round pick in Ginn.
Im your point on with alot of your arguement for sure but Welker is not just a product like many make him out to be and people assume he is just being covered by linebackers all the time. Rewatch the superbowl and see who the Giants were concentrating on as the game went on. Hint it wasnt Moss.
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it's not that he's just 'a product of a system' - it's that his production is being maximized in NE's system. i don't think he'd have the same output in another great but dissimilar offense like dallas. he's a great receiver - just not quite as great as that system is making him out to be.

either way i'm happy for him. he never would have developed into the receiver he is now in miami - and we got good compensation for him - even if we did give up said compensation (satele) too soon.
 
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