Brandon Marshall tells Davone Bess that Bess will have a pro bowl year

[damanref10]

Welker is good....there is no doubt. But his numbers are a product of the system.

110 receptions 3 years in a row is something that has never been done before.....so does that make Wes Welker the best WR that has ever played the game?? No.

Do I think that there are a lot of guys who could do what Welker is doing if plugged into his spot? Sure. I think Bess could. Hell, the Pats had a 7th round rookie WR who played QB in college step in for Welker in week 2 and he had 8 rec for 98 yards.

Come on man, wake up. Product of the system, Timmy Chang and the Colt Brennan at Hawaii. What "system" is New England running that welker is merely a product of? The "no one can cover me inside 20 yards from scrimmage offense". He is that good, plain and simple. I love me some davone bess, but this is laughable. I'm sure you think Tom Brady just isn't that good, and Randy Moss's resurgence to dominance in New England has more to do with this "system" than Oakland's ineptitude.

Just because it's never been done before doesn't mean he's suddenly anointed as the best wide receiver in NFL history. But you would be naive if you didn't have Welker in your top 6 or so year in and year out.

Btw, Julian Edelman also replaced with Wes Welker in week 3 and the "system" blasted his stats to 3 receptions for 20 yards. So much for that

 

[ckparrothead]

What system is responsible for Davone Bess' having more catches in his first two years than Brandon Marshall did in Denver?

 

[ckparrothead]

And actually Julian Edelman first replaced Welker in Week 2 and he "blasted off" for 8 catches and 98 yards.

 

[ckparrothead]

In fact, Wes Welker missed a total of three games. Technically he played in Week 17 but it was only for 4 of the 64 snaps, so I really don't count a game where a guy played 6% of the snaps.

During those three games Julian Edelman accounted for 21 catches and 231 yards. That's an average of 7.0 catches for 77.0 yards per game. During his stay with the Patriots, Wes Welker has averaged 7.7 catches and 82.0 yards per game.

This was a rookie. And the dropoff was 0.7 catches and 5.0 yards per game.

Top 6? Not in my book. He never has been a top 6 WR in my book and he never will be. He's very good but top 6 is the best of the best.

 

[ckparrothead]

And even further, that 3 catches for 20 yards performance in Week 3 happened as Edelman only took 36 of the team's 85 snaps. As a comparison, he took 76 of 77 snaps in Week 2 when he replaced Welker, and he took 63 of 68 snaps in Week 17 when he replaced Welker.

So really, he probably would have outperformed Welker's averages if he'd taken all the snaps in that game like Welker usually would. Let's say he took 81 snaps in that game instead of 36. That would have equated to 7 catches for 45 yards, giving him 25 catches for 256 yards during those three games. That's 8.3 catches and 85.3 yards per game.

 

[damanref10]

In fact, Wes Welker missed a total of three games. Technically he played in Week 17 but it was only for 4 of the 64 snaps, so I really don't count a game where a guy played 6% of the snaps.

During those three games Julian Edelman accounted for 21 catches and 231 yards. That's an average of 7.0 catches for 77.0 yards per game. During his stay with the Patriots, Wes Welker has averaged 7.7 catches and 82.0 yards per game.

This was a rookie. And the dropoff was 0.7 catches and 5.0 yards per game.

Top 6? Not in my book. He never has been a top 6 WR in my book and he never will be. He's very good but top 6 is the best of the best.

Edelman filled in valiantly, dont get me wrong but to notion that he is just as good as Welker because of New Englands system just doesn't quite match. And i think you may have misunderstood my point about system CK. I believe the system notion is thrown around.
It is no coincidence the this "system" of new england's was above average before 2007. Brady averaged around 25 TD's per season and then the addition of Moss and Welker double the production and generate the best offensive season in league history if i remember correctly. It's not the system, its the players. Are they pass happy, sure. But he is not merely a product of that system.

And year in and year out (not one year wonders). You have the obvious in Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, Steve Smith (Car), Reggie Wayne, and Brandon Marshall. (In no particular order)
Name game. Year in and year out Wes welker or.....
Vincent Jackson.... Wes
Jennings.... Wes
Anquan.... Wes
Even Calvin Johnson, whose potential is absolutely astronomical over his three year career had a nice rookie season 756 yards 4 td. Pro Bowl sophomore season 1,331 yards and 12 td. And horrid year (based on expectations) 984 yards 5tds.....wes

There are few as consistent and effective. And now looking back, i wouldn't say top 6. But top 7......... certainly

 

[damanref10]

And even further, that 3 catches for 20 yards performance in Week 3 happened as Edelman only took 36 of the team's 85 snaps. As a comparison, he took 76 of 77 snaps in Week 2 when he replaced Welker, and he took 63 of 68 snaps in Week 17 when he replaced Welker.

So really, he probably would have outperformed Welker's averages if he'd taken all the snaps in that game like Welker usually would. Let's say he took 81 snaps in that game instead of 36. That would have equated to 7 catches for 45 yards, giving him 25 catches for 256 yards during those three games. That's 8.3 catches and 85.3 yards per game.

First and foremost., CK i truly do admire the work you do. And i thoroughly enjoy reading your analysis's. So if I am correct in what you are saying, do you believe Wes is merely a product of New England's system and is easily replaceable?

 

[BobDole]

it's not like welker all of a sudden got that much better when he left - he has benefited huge from that system. year 3 welker and year 3 bess are pretty comparable IMO. the difference is welker's ability to make people miss - the guy is impossible to bring down. bess will never have that kind of production here b/c we don't throw the ball 50 times a game - but he'll be a great slot receiver nonetheless. probowl? highly unlikely. marshall is the only receiver that might do that.

 

[damanref10]

it's not like welker all of a sudden got that much better when he left - he has benefited huge from that system. year 3 welker and year 3 bess are pretty comparable IMO. the difference is welker's ability to make people miss - the guy is impossible to bring down. bess will never have that kind of production here b/c we don't throw the ball 50 times a game - but he'll be a great slot receiver nonetheless. probowl? highly unlikely. marshall is the only receiver that might do that.

If you were the Patriots, if your options were to hand the ball off to Maroney or Sammy Morris, or have Tom throw the ball to Welker and Moss who can't be stopped consistently...... wouldn't you throw the ball 50 times as well?

 

[BobDole]

If you were the Patriots, if your options were to hand the ball off to Maroney or Sammy Morris, or have Tom throw the ball to Welker and Moss who can't be stopped consistently...... wouldn't you throw the ball 50 times as well?

damn straight - although that's irrelevant.

its just funny that people think welker all of a sudden 'blossomed' when he went to NE. not so much.

 

[damanref10]

damn straight - although that's irrelevant.

its just funny that people think welker all of a sudden 'blossomed' when he went to NE. not so much.

He wasn't the elite receiver we know him as today until he got to new england.. pains me to say it. As a dolphin in the year before he was traded he had 67 receptions for 687 yards and 1 td. Average at best.

 

[dlockz]

In fact, Wes Welker missed a total of three games. Technically he played in Week 17 but it was only for 4 of the 64 snaps, so I really don't count a game where a guy played 6% of the snaps.

During those three games Julian Edelman accounted for 21 catches and 231 yards. That's an average of 7.0 catches for 77.0 yards per game. During his stay with the Patriots, Wes Welker has averaged 7.7 catches and 82.0 yards per game.

This was a rookie. And the dropoff was 0.7 catches and 5.0 yards per game.

Top 6? Not in my book. He never has been a top 6 WR in my book and he never will be. He's very good but top 6 is the best of the best.

The question becomes could he maintain that over a season though and Welker has done that over three straight seasons.

 

[damanref10]

The question becomes could he maintain that over a season though and Welker has done that over three straight seasons.

Agreed. And in comparision, over those same three years Larry Fitzgerald averaged around 83 yards per game. Albeit he has more TD's than welker. In his "pass happy" offense in Arizona, with Anquan who rules the middle of the field (a la Welker but a little bigger and darker), they are not regarded as relishing in the system.

 

[dlockz]

He wasn't the elite receiver we know him as today until he got to new england.. pains me to say it. As a dolphin in the year before he was traded he had 67 receptions for 687 yards and 1 td. Average at best.

Lets not forget he had Harrington as his qb most of the year and the ball was very evenly distributed with 4 players over 50 receptions

 

[ckparrothead]

First and foremost., CK i truly do admire the work you do. And i thoroughly enjoy reading your analysis's. So if I am correct in what you are saying, do you believe Wes is merely a product of New England's system and is easily replaceable?

I think you're taking what I am saying to an unnecessary extreme.

As I said, he's a very good player, better than I initially thought when Miami traded him, but that doesn't mean his production isn't still a product of their system and of being next to Randy Moss. It absolutely is. I can think of a fair number of WRs I'd take above him including all the ones you mentioned.

Edelman doesn't have much trouble replacing Wes' production when he goes in. I think the bigger issue is that he doesn't take up the attention that a Wes Welker does. Edelman's production matches what Welker's usually is, but the rest of the receivers go down in production.