BS on Yahoo Sports - Brady Better then Marino...

[muscle979]

Tom Brady is Joe Montana 20 years later. He is not the best QB. Never makes postseason mistakes? Didn't he throw three picks last weekend? A healthy Chargers team likely would have beaten the walking legend. This is another case of assuming that b/c a QB was on a team that won a lot of super bowls, he's better than other players at his position. Brady made enough plays to win, sure. But everybody and their mother knows that the Pats D won those first three super bowls. It wasn't Brady who kept humbling the mighty Colts offense. Let's not forget the joke that the NFC has become during the Pats reign as well. Marino was better than Brady, so was Favre, so was Elway, and probably even Montana.

 

[Gardenhead]

I will not "bombard" you, but I whole-heartedly dissagree. Someone else mentioned the Illegal Contact and Roughing rules in an earlier post, this is a HUGE factor to Brady's success. Also, say what you want about the receivers, but Branch and Brown were not too shabby.

When Brady has not had superior talent around him he has not won the SB. I think the main reason I can't agreee with your opinion is because I've never seen Brady take over a game like Marino. Not to say Brady hasn't been clutch, but I remember Dan firing passes in between 3 and 4 defenders and making it look effortless. In contrast, Bradys receivers appear to be wide open on every play (see Jax game). No to mention he has ALL DAY to throw the ball. There are numerous QB's in this league who can pick you apart with that kind of time.

Im not a true homer. I believe Tom Brady is one of the All-Time Greats. But he does and never will have the talent and/or pocket presence Marino had. He's Joe Montana incarnate, a great Qb in an Exceptional system.

I've seen Brady take over a game a million times. The dude is ice-cold in the fourth quarter. I've stopped actively rooting against him in the 4th quarter because I just end up getting let down. I just accept the fact that he's going to make a key 3rd down throw and win the game. AND THEN HE DOES.

I'm a super homer. Every year I convince myself that we're gonna go 12-4. But let's be real. Brady is one of the greatest of all time. Top 3. In my book #1. But the guy has GOT to be in the argument.

 

[BuffaloSoldier2]

I already have if you read my past posts in this thread, but I can go a step further.

If someone comes up to me and argues that Peyton Manning is the best QB of all time I wont argue.

I like to look at the year Peyton had when he threw 49 tds...And now look at the the year Brady is having when he threw 50 tds.

Manning is better because he puts up better regualr season stats??? Is Fouts better than Montana then? That's a bad argument. Manning chokes when the games matter most. Even last year during their Super Bowl run, Manning throw 1 td to 7 ints. If you think Manning is better than Brady, I got a bridge to sell ya.

Brady's career high in Td passes before this year?? 28...Marino, Favre, Peyton all have thrown for more than 30 tds 10 times...Compared to Brady's 1. Plus the offense the Patriots have on the field this year is the best I have ever seen and now he finally throws for more than 30 tds. Yet he only surpassed Peyton's td number by 1. Plus Petyon didnt play in the second half of most games when he threw 49 tds and he only played one series the last week of the season. Brady's numbers where inflated by running the score up. One great example was against us. Brady had 5 tds, they pulled him Cassel threw the INT that got returned for a toudown. They where still up by 21 yet they needed to bring Brady back in for his 6th td?? I dont think so.

Stats are for nerds. The only stat that matters is wins. And right now, Brady is the best at winning % in the regular season and playoffs. I'd take that over td passes (for the record, Jim Kelly neve threw for 30 tds in a season).

I am not saying Brady is not a very good QB. He is a great game manager and deserves to be in HOF some day. But from a a talent stand point hes not in the same league as the Marino, Favre, and Peyton Mannings.

What do you mean talent standpoint? Joe Montana wasn't a particular talented QB but is in the top 3 of all time QBs. Clayton and Duper were very good wrs. Farve had Sharpe and Walker (both 1sts rounders). Manning had Wayne and Harrison (1st rounders).

Before this season, Brady has never played with a 1st round receiver. If you think any QB from above played with a worse cast than Givens, Branch, and Brown, you're nuts.

Yes, You can argue Brady has the SuperBowls, but he had the number one ranked D in the NFL every time he has won a ring. Marino never had the number one ranked D. Peyton hasnt until this year and Favre only had it once. The year he lost to Dever in the SuperBowl. Brady is probably top 5-7 of all time.

No offense but you're making stuff up. The Pats' defense in 2001 was ranked 24th (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...nType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find), ranked 7th in 2003 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...nType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find), and 9th in 2004.

Look I understand defending your guy and I hate the Pats*, but Brady is the best QB ever. He is unbelieveable. And before this year, he's had some of the worst offensive weapons in the league. He was a 2nd half collaspe last year from taking the Pats* to the Super Bowl with Reche "Bug Eyes" Caldwell as his #1 wr. Caldwell is now the 4th wr for the Redskins. Brady is the best and you disagree, you are delusional. :up:
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[HaRdKoReXXX]

I've seen Brady take over a game a million times. The dude is ice-cold in the fourth quarter. I've stopped actively rooting against him in the 4th quarter because I just end up getting let down. I just accept the fact that he's going to make a key 3rd down throw and win the game. AND THEN HE DOES.

I'm a super homer. Every year I convince myself that we're gonna go 12-4. But let's be real. Brady is one of the greatest of all time. Top 3. In my book #1. But the guy has GOT to be in the argument.

I would defintely agree he is in the "argument" for best QB ever. But what about Terry Bradshaw, Otto Graham, Bart Starr? You don't hear these men mentioned in that argument. They won Championships, but the talent around them was so great people didnt give them the type of credit Brady gets.

Such is the greatness of Marino. He was a one-man wrecking crew on offense. He never a had a HOF Running back, (or WR for that matter) but got the most out of the talent around him. He excelled on bad teams, the mark of a great QB.

 

[6r3yf0x]

I agree with your statements sir.

Tom Brady is the greatest QB of the common era (post more stringent rules). Not the greatest of all-time.

I will give you "Brady Lovers" that, currently since 2000 Brady is the best QB according to the books, with Manning bringing up a close second.

But Brady is in no way the best QB ever, Marino did things that no other QB before him or since have been able to do.

 

[Gardenhead]

Ugh. I agree with a Bills fan.

If a jet fan chimes in, I might change my mind.

 

[WISfinfan13]

You have made an excellent argument regarding whose single-season TD mark was the most impressive. Bravo.

However, quarterback greatness is not only about who can hurl the most TDs. Its about leadership, timing, decision-making, accuracy, escapability, and who can thow for a bunch of yards and TDs as well.

Brady's got more than Marino. I understand how somebody could argue otherwise. But I take exception to your assertion that is is "easy to discredit Brady"

My list:
1. Brady
2. Marino
3. Elway
4. Manning
5. Montana

I only included guys I've seen play.

Alright lets bring leadership into the picture.

The game Dan Marino threw for 550+ yards in a game (sorry i have class in a bit or I would look up the exact number). I ordered a video of this game. Its the best leadership I have ever seen on the football field. The Dolphins where getting killed. And later in the movie Dan Marino Heart of a Champion I found out. During this game Shula was calling plays and he sent in a running play. Marino called a time out went to the sideline and basically said coach I can win this game and were going to pass every single time until we get back in this thing. Shula didnt argue and the Dolphins made an incredible come back tieing up the the game and sending it into OT. Where they ended up loosing the final was something like 52-57 (sorry im time pressed or I would get the exact number). The Dolphins scored on every possetion except one or two during this game. If the Fins would have played an ounce of Defense in this game they would have dominated. I dare you to give me one example that of a game that Brady showed more leadership than this game?

The thing is Brady will never be in this boat because he has a defense. Its pretty easy to be a good leader when you dont have to swallow a game like the one I just mentioned. Brady has dealt with no negativity his entire career. Mannings teams where bad early in his career. Favre was 4-12 a couple years ago. Marino took teams that should have been 4 or 5 win teams and made them 9-10 win teams year in and year out.

Escapability?? Bill Walsh breaks down Marino in Heart of a Champion and said Marino moved around in the pocket like no QB he has ever seen. Yes his mobility was hurt due to his knee problems and the tearing of his achillies. Walsh also added that Joe Montana was a product of the system...Dan Marino was a system.

I mean buddy i can go on all day with this thing. Brady is not the best of all time.

 

[WISfinfan13]

Manning is better because he puts up better regualr season stats??? Is Fouts better than Montana then? That's a bad argument. Manning chokes when the games matter most. Even last year during their Super Bowl run, Manning throw 1 td to 7 ints. If you think Manning is better than Brady, I got a bridge to sell ya.​

The Patriots D in 2001 where ranked 6th in points allowed...2003 1st in points allowed. 2004 second in points allowed...

Stats are for nerds. The only stat that matters is wins. And right now, Brady is the best at winning % in the regular season and playoffs. I'd take that over td passes (for the record, Jim Kelly neve threw for 30 tds in a season).​

What do you mean talent standpoint? Joe Montana wasn't a particular talented QB but is in the top 3 of all time QBs. Clayton and Duper were very good wrs. Farve had Sharpe and Walker (both 1sts rounders). Manning had Wayne and Harrison (1st rounders).​

Before this season, Brady has never played with a 1st round receiver. If you think any QB from above played with a worse cast than Givens, Branch, and Brown, you're nuts.​

No offense but you're making stuff up. The Pats' defense in 2001 was ranked 24th (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...nType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find), ranked 7th in 2003 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...nType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Find), and 9th in 2004.​

Look I understand defending your guy and I hate the Pats*, but Brady is the best QB ever. He is unbelieveable. And before this year, he's had some of the worst offensive weapons in the league. He was a 2nd half collaspe last year from taking the Pats* to the Super Bowl with Reche "Bug Eyes" Caldwell as his #1 wr. Caldwell is now the 4th wr for the Redskins. Brady is the best and you disagree, you are delusional. :up:​

The Patriots D in 2001....was 6th in points allowed...2003...1st in points allowed...in 2004 2nd in points allowed...

Marino's best D...7th in points allowed the year they went to the superbowl

 

[Gardenhead]

WISfinfan bottom line is this: I think Brady's the best ever. I respect that some think Marino is. However, if you think its crazy to assert that Brady is, then you're too stats-obsessed.

I'm not here to bash Marino. I'm just here to give Brady his due credit.

 

[unluckyluciano]

WISfinfan bottom line is this: I think Brady's the best ever. I respect that some think Marino is. However, if you think its crazy to assert that Brady is, then you're too stats-obsessed.

I'm not here to bash Marino. I'm just here to give Brady his due credit.

Saying he is the one of the best qbs ever is due credit stating he is the best ever is giving more then credit.

 

[Gardenhead]

Saying he is the one of the best qbs ever is due credit stating he is the best ever is giving more then credit.

He said he could "easily discredit" Brady. I think he's wrong.

 

[WISfinfan13]

WISfinfan bottom line is this: I think Brady's the best ever. I respect that some think Marino is. However, if you think its crazy to assert that Brady is, then you're too stats-obsessed.

I'm not here to bash Marino. I'm just here to give Brady his due credit.

I am not stat obsessed...But how else can put things on an even playing field?? The best way would be to insert Manning into the best offense of all time, than Marino, than Favre and compare their success. But we cant do that Brady is the only one who will ever be able to play on an offense that is the best of all time.

And the other "easiest" way to prove Brady isnt the best ever is by simply watch his games. And comparing their talents. But since that doesnt work for you I have to bring stats into the equation. Brady gets credit I love watching that offense run as a well oiled machinge its amazing!! but calling him the best of all time in my opinion is ridiculous..

 

[phinfan3411]

Number 1: It does not make you a "HOMER" if you think Dan Marino is the best QB of all time, even most idiots would at least confess he is in the running-so don't say we are homers for thinking this. I don't think Griese was close to him, and he won two superbowls. The best DE I have ever seen would have to be Reggie White, not Jason Taylor. I love Zach, but I know he is not the best Middle LB etc.

Number 2: All of the people who think Brady is the best ever (By the way I think he is really good), YOU MUST RESPOND TO THIS: Marino broke the single season TD mark in the 13th game of the season, and continued on to beat it by 12, and also threw for over 5000 yds, a feat NOBODY has matched. Two years later he threw for 44. Nobody came CLOSE to that record for 20 YEARS. They changed the rules in 2004, mostly because of the AFC Championship Game between the Colts and PATRIOTS. The PATRIOTS basically mugged the Colt receivers on every play.
So they change the rules in 2004, and after nobody coming close to the record in 20 years, it has no been broken TWICE IN THE LAST FOUR by two different people. Wow, all you guys are right I am wrong its obvious from this that there is no coincidence here, the NFL Quarterbacking just got a whole lot better in the last four years right?? Come on, please someone defend this, don't just be a sheep and follow the path everyone else seems to be doing. Marino threw 48 touchdowns in a era nobody even dreamed of throwing anything close to that, and in a era where corners, and safeties roughed up receivers all the way down the field.

Number 3: The statement that he doesn't make the big mistake is the biggest pile of you know what I have ever heard. He is not mistake prone, but he does make mistakes. Just a few off the top of my head, 2004 in Miami, he was getting sacked and threw the ball up, and gave us the game, last year in the playoffs threw int to end game against San Diego, but as Patriot luck would have it, that guy fumbled on the runback. He then threw the int to end their season, and their comeback bid the next week in Indy(Championships are considered big games aren't they?). Those are just the ones that I know of- I do not watch him every week.

So, in closing, I, Phinfan3411, non-homer, say Dan Marino was the best QB I have ever seen, and I don't care what the ESPN generation has to say about it, because you can bet it will change as soon as the new hotshot comes around.

 

[vmarcilfan75]

I will give you "Brady Lovers" that, currently since 2000 Brady is the best QB according to the books, with Manning bringing up a close second.

But Brady is in no way the best QB ever, Marino did things that no other QB before him or since have been able to do.

like??

You cant bring up Records since Favre broke some of them :boohoo:

 

[WISfinfan13]

If you want to call the Patriots front office the best of all time I wouldnt argue with you. They have put the tools around Brady that allows him to maximize his abilities.

This is the area that failed Marino the most during his career. He had the Mark's brothers for a couple years. Are they as good as the recievers Brady has around him no. But in my opinion if the front office would have given Marino what Brady has. We would be talking about the Dolphins Dynasty of the late 80's into the early 90's. And Marino (in my opinion) would be hands down the best QB of all time.