Bucs and Rams GM impressed with Ireland and Dolphins

[CANDolphan]

Oh okay so Ireland is responsible for all the negative and none of the positive okay thanks. Certainly there was NO variable of

1) a coaching staff that was atrocious, and has been atrocious every single place they've gone. Sparano was a disaster in New York but CLEARLY HAD IRELAND DRAFTED BETTER THIS WOULDNT HAVE MATTERED
2) the fact that we had two GMs at one point doing one job. Oh I know, let's take your word for it and ignore the fact that even Parcells himself said he controlled X drafts. Give me a break.

Just because I dont have this seething blind hatred of Ireland and actually understand that success is an intricate balance of coaching, drafting, player development and scheme I'm being labeled an Ireland homer by some 45 year old mouth breathers.

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 AM ----------

Oh okay so Ireland is responsible for all the negative and none of the positive okay thanks. Certainly there was NO variable of

1) a coaching staff that was atrocious, and has been atrocious every single place they've gone. Sparano was a disaster in New York but CLEARLY HAD IRELAND DRAFTED BETTER THIS WOULDNT HAVE MATTERED
2) the fact that we had two GMs at one point doing one job. Oh I know, let's take your word for it and ignore the fact that even Parcells himself said he controlled X drafts. Give me a break.

Just because I dont have this seething blind hatred of Ireland and actually understand that success is an intricate balance of coaching, drafting, player development and scheme I'm being labeled an Ireland homer by some 45 year old mouth breathers.

For the Dolphins to improve catching "a big fish in the first 5 casts" is not enough. Ireland realistically needs to find two outstanding playmakers and two additional solid starters for us to take the step forward that all Dolphins fans want to see. I'll give him one miss in the first five picks because nobody in the NFL gets them all right. But if we don't end up with two outstanding playmakers and two additional solid starters then this draft will be a failure.

This is ridiculous. He does not need to find TWO outstanding playmakers in this one draft on top of two solid starters. That's insane and nobody expects that, but people LOOKING for a problem. If you can get 3 solid starters, 2 solid starters and 1 super stud, etc etc out fo the first 5, that's a great retention rate. Those are the simple odds of the NFL.

 

[CANDolphan]

He was ready to move on to Chris Long if Jake Long, Ireland and Sparano's pick, didn't sign in time.




http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-04-26-draft-notes_N.htm

Also, the narrative at the time was that the pick would be between the two Longs. Ryan wasn't really in the equation beyond due diligence.

I never said he was, apologies if that got confused somehow. I'm simply stating that even what you posted is conjecture. And that article is great for several reasons:

1) People on this site should probably correct that article. Ireland was in charge of that draft. He had final say. Parcells couldn't have been responsible for all that. I mean, I have with good authority FINZDUDE14 knows the ins and outs of this franchise, not USA Today.

2) That reads like they were using Chris Long as a negotiation tactic and the writer got a bit carried away with a story. It's a pretty moot point and one that makes absolutely no difference, so let's just say that Chris Long was almost a Dolphin. Looking back with hindsight... we might have been better off :\ Jake how the **** did you drop off like a sinking rock ugh

 

[Wildbill3]

You have better chances of hitting the lotto than Ireland righting this ship.... We have 5 years of mismanagement that cannot simply be undone in one offseason.... especially since the guy responsible is still at the helm.

I'll add this to all the other glass gems you've given us over the years.

 

[Wildbill3]

Oh okay so Ireland is responsible for all the negative and none of the positive okay thanks. Certainly there was NO variable of

1) a coaching staff that was atrocious, and has been atrocious every single place they've gone. Sparano was a disaster in New York but CLEARLY HAD IRELAND DRAFTED BETTER THIS WOULDNT HAVE MATTERED
2) the fact that we had two GMs at one point doing one job. Oh I know, let's take your word for it and ignore the fact that even Parcells himself said he controlled X drafts. Give me a break.

Just because I dont have this seething blind hatred of Ireland and actually understand that success is an intricate balance of coaching, drafting, player development and scheme I'm being labeled an Ireland homer by some 45 year old mouth breathers.

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 AM ----------

Oh okay so Ireland is responsible for all the negative and none of the positive okay thanks. Certainly there was NO variable of

1) a coaching staff that was atrocious, and has been atrocious every single place they've gone. Sparano was a disaster in New York but CLEARLY HAD IRELAND DRAFTED BETTER THIS WOULDNT HAVE MATTERED
2) the fact that we had two GMs at one point doing one job. Oh I know, let's take your word for it and ignore the fact that even Parcells himself said he controlled X drafts. Give me a break.

Just because I dont have this seething blind hatred of Ireland and actually understand that success is an intricate balance of coaching, drafting, player development and scheme I'm being labeled an Ireland homer by some 45 year old mouth breathers.




This is ridiculous. He does not need to find TWO outstanding playmakers in this one draft on top of two solid starters. That's insane and nobody expects that, but people LOOKING for a problem. If you can get 3 solid starters, 2 solid starters and 1 super stud, etc etc out fo the first 5, that's a great retention rate. Those are the simple odds of the NFL.

40 percent. That's the retention rate of a gold standard draft. Throw in one franchise guy in the 40 percent and you have a hall of fame draft. In VIP datruth55 did a draft review for every team over a 5 year period. You can guess who the worst teams were, and you'd be wrong if you listed the dolphins.

 

[z926538]

This is ridiculous. He does not need to find TWO outstanding playmakers in this one draft on top of two solid starters. That's insane and nobody expects that, but people LOOKING for a problem. If you can get 3 solid starters, 2 solid starters and 1 super stud, etc etc out fo the first 5, that's a great retention rate. Those are the simple odds of the NFL.

The reason why I think the Dolphins need to get two outstanding playmakers in the draft to be successful is that (a) I always expect an outstanding playmaker to come from a first round draft pick; and (b) we gave up one of the most talented wide receivers in the league to get one of our extra picks. If we don't replace Marshall in this draft then the Marshall trade was a bust. That leaves three picks in the second and third rounds. We should be able to find two starters in three picks.

Our consistent failure as a team over the last decade to find solid starters in the second and third rounds is a major reason why the Dolphins have been so mediocre over the last decade.

 

[Wildbill3]

The reason why I think the Dolphins need to get two outstanding playmakers in the draft to be successful is that (a) I always expect an outstanding playmaker to come from a first round draft pick; and (b) we gave up one of the most talented wide receivers in the league to get one of our extra picks. If we don't replace Marshall in this draft then the Marshall trade was a bust. That leaves three picks in the second and third rounds. We should be able to find two starters in three picks.

Our consistent failure as a team over the last decade to find solid starters in the second and third rounds is a major reason why the Dolphins have been so mediocre over the last decade.

no. its our lack of impact players in the draft. we've found plenty of starters.

 

[z926538]

no. its our lack of impact players in the draft. we've found plenty of starters.

Wildbill, unless I am mistaken I think we're quibbling over semantics. In my mind what you call an "impact player" is what I call a "solid starter". We've had plenty of starters from the second and third rounds that have not been "solid" and that have failed to be "impact players". I think we both agree we haven't gotten the production out the second and third rounds of the draft that we should have.

 

[Zounds]

You have better chances of hitting the lotto than Ireland righting this ship.... We have 5 years of mismanagement that cannot simply be undone in one offseason.... especially since the guy responsible is still at the helm.

Yes because Sparano and Parcells had nothing to do with the past. Sparano was an awful coach who couldnt develop talent, and Parcells was pulling the trigger on guys like Pat White and John Nalbone in the draft. And a ****ty owner like Wayne Huizenga allowing fools like Randy Muller waste high round draft picks on terrible players. Yea, none of that contributed to our annualy 7-9 records. With guys like Sparano, Dan Henning, and Parcells, its really a huge surprise that we didnt go 2-14 those years.

Ive never seen a fanbase so ungrateful and narrow minded about having so much cap space, flexibility, and draft picks after upgrading the coach and QB the previous year. Its almost like they would rather have less cap space and less picks just to spite Ireland. Like having Brandon Marshall and Vontae Davis on our team would make us winners, because the last 2 years when they were on our team we were complete losers. Really, why are you so worried about having so much cap space and top picks in the draft? Are you afraid Ireland might actually use it well?

 

[Zounds]

Actually, Parcells wanted Chris Long.

If Parcells wanted Chris Long, then we would have drafted Chris Long.

 

[The Omen]

Really, why are you so worried about having so much cap space and top picks in the draft? Are you afraid Ireland might actually use it well?

I really think they (Ireland haters) do! Because this would make they're opinion on the man completely invalid, they will always resort to his failures regardless of how much success he will have... While Ireland should be put on blast for his mistakes, he should also be credited for the right choices he's made...

If the Fins turn this thing around, Ireland haters won't admit to being wrong but distribute credit elsewhere (players, coaches etc...) and continue to reminisce on his failures. Nobody likes to admit they are wrong.

Personally I don't like or hate him, I base my opinion on him more so on his latest work then I do in the beginning. If he was stuck on the old philosophy I'd be worried, but I think he's proven, at least in his last draft he's willing to change his ways.

 

[WesternNYDolfan]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/s...and-has-dolphins-well-positioned-with-/nT4bf/

What I've been saying all along.

Obviously rabid fans don't want to hear it, but **** em, they'll be unhappy until the team is consistently contending, and I think this season is the one we turn the corner and people start seeing how good a job Ireland's actually done for us

 

[WesternNYDolfan]

2 of the thirds rounders he got was for the same person he traded two second rounders for....Ya, great job!

But he did get two Pro Bowl seasons out of the guy before the trade, naturally a player's value declines with age...also considering the perceived legal problems he may have been facing his value had declined as well, that's not really Jeff's fault

 

[z926538]

Yes because Sparano and Parcells had nothing to do with the past. Sparano was an awful coach who couldnt develop talent, and Parcells was pulling the trigger on guys like Pat White and John Nalbone in the draft. And a ****ty owner like Wayne Huizenga allowing fools like Randy Muller waste high round draft picks on terrible players. Yea, none of that contributed to our annualy 7-9 records. With guys like Sparano, Dan Henning, and Parcells, its really a huge surprise that we didnt go 2-14 those years.

Ive never seen a fanbase so ungrateful and narrow minded about having so much cap space, flexibility, and draft picks after upgrading the coach and QB the previous year. Its almost like they would rather have less cap space and less picks just to spite Ireland. Like having Brandon Marshall and Vontae Davis on our team would make us winners, because the last 2 years when they were on our team we were complete losers. Really, why are you so worried about having so much cap space and top picks in the draft? Are you afraid Ireland might actually use it well?

I think we have to be realistic about the past and show some sophistication in our understanding of the working relationship between Bill Parcells and Jeff Ireland during the time that Parcells was actively serving as Ireland's boss. It is clear that a decade of mediocrity has worn on the fan base of this franchise to the point where there is no longer any patience or any acceptance of error or mediocrity in the front-office.

It is absolutely clear that the Dolphins drafting during the coaching reigns of Wannsted, Saban and Cameron was very poor, particularly in the early rounds of the draft. When you miss in the early rounds of the draft you are forced to use free agency to fill the holes in your roster. Unfortunately, this leads to those starters who are obtained in free agency to be overpaid for their talent. This problem compounds itself over time putting the team into a slow spiral of death. This continued legacy of failure along with Cameron's failure as head coach led to the embarrassment that was the 1-15 season.

Regarding Parcells and Ireland, it is clear that the draft process was a team effort. Parcells dictated to Ireland the principles to use in ranking players and in prioritizing areas of need during the draft. Ireland's contribution to the process was to take those principles and the research done by the scouts (and to a lesser extent the coaches) to actually build the draft board. Prior to draft day Parcells reviewed Ireland's work to put his own imprint on the draft board. On draft day they followed their draft board work product to guide which players would be taken. Parcells served as a final arbiter on making decisions about the position prioritization (LT versus QB is the most well known example) but the actual players involved came from the draft board which was primarily Ireland's work product. Bottom line: Parcells provided the principles used to rank players, Ireland built the draft board, Parcells decided position prioritization (that we wanted to pick Ireland's top rated left tackle instead of his top rated quarterback), and Ireland used this guidance when provided to make the pick. On rare cases Parcells would override Ireland's judgement on both position and player to be taken (Pat White pick), but for the majority of the cases it was a consensus team effort with both Parcells and Ireland in agreement.

Finally, my concern about the current situation with draft picks and cap space was stated in a previous post. I think it is wonderful that we have so much ammunition to use going into the off season. If we were a normal franchise who had made the playoffs a few times in the last decade with a couple of playoff wins then it would simply be business as usual. But we're not a normal franchise. We've been incredibly mediocre for over a decade. We have a chance in this draft to fix our franchise. I pray that we do. But the downside of failure is unthinkable. If we come out of our first five draft picks without having made a significant improvement in our football team than we will have condemned ourselves to many continued years of mediocrity as a franchise. As I said in the earlier post, if it wasn't so important then no one would care.

 

[WesternNYDolfan]

The funny thing is the Rams GM should've probably picked Griffin.

Idk, Griffin is this generation's Randall Cunningham, or Bo Jackson....Athletic prodigy that just won't be able to get past injuries.....This is the second time he's tore up his knee.

These were the concerns with Griffin heading in, and they're proving to be true. I'd rather have the picks they got probably

 

[Zounds]

Bottom line: Parcells provided the principles used to rank players, Ireland built the draft board, Parcells decided position prioritization (that we wanted to pick Ireland's top rated left tackle instead of his top rated quarterback), and Ireland used this guidance when provided to make the pick. On rare cases Parcells would override Ireland's judgement on both position and player to be taken (Pat White pick), but for the majority of the cases it was a consensus team effort with both Parcells and Ireland in agreement.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hearsay