CK's Mock Draft 3/27/09

[ckparrothead]

I never said you were so wr-wr-wr-wr-wrong. you are being a kid again just as you were last time we had this arguement about the whole dorsey and long situation.

its funny how everyone believes Dorsey can't be a NT in the NFL from Scouts, to GM, to Coaches and yet you still think he can? Lucky for finheaven we have you, too bad we dont have a finheaven team in the NFL so you can put a team together b/c apparently you know better then a current great Pioli.

I simply said you are not ALWAYS right. why get so offended about it? its a MESSAGE Board. Thats all. I even said you post good in depth information but b/c i said one small part you aren't always right you got so upset and defensive. Sorry I dont kiss your butt like everyone else. You act like a diva celebrity where its your way or the highway and if anyone says anything close to a "I dont agree or hey i dont think you are right on this player" it becomes a presonal attack and u leash out on them. Everytime you respond like that makes it seem like you have nothing else to build on social wise but a message board.

Its that attitude of yours that doesnt allow people to respect everything you say or do. I even talked about your site and how its a good job in progress etc and you still can't find a way to be nice to ppl that still disagree.

I'm not offended about the fact that I'm wrong plenty of times.

You're the one going out of his way to type out big long posts detailing instances where you were right and we were supposedly wrong. You're the one playing up the martyr card by talking about how poor little you was "grilled" about a certain position.

You look foolish and immature when you do something like that. I expect better. Maybe I shouldn't.

Incidentally, I'm not even sure what you're talking about when you talk about bringing something up with me this time or that. I didn't know what your opinion of Dorsey was until you just told me just now. There are thousands of message board posters on this board. I can't keep track of what each of them said about every prospect.

 

[FaithfulFinFan]

Indeed, we did nail the Ginn and Allen picks.

The only picks I've wanted to change so far were:

1. Sneaking Knowshon into the first round. He's falling but someone will take him.

2. Probably flip-flopping the Eagles and Ravens picks. I am thinking the Eagles will go with Maclin first and the Ravens would go with Heyward-Bey after that. The Ravens just recently sent Joe Flacco over to throw some passes with Heyward-Bey.

Every mock draft is "one of the worst I've seen" to some people out there. The bottom line is you either know what you're talking about and are ready to back up your opinion with a knowledge of the facts...or you don't.

Fact of the matter is, by the time I got to the #25 pick, I see a lot of people off the board. Much as I wish they'd take him, I don't see Miami having interest in Jarron Gilbert.

Much as I'm tempted to have them take Darius Butler or Sean Smith, I refuse to project them using a first round pick on a cornerback UNTIL I see Parcells and Ireland sign off on taking a corner high in the draft. Right now, the history just is not there. There is no proof that Jeff Ireland wanted Terrance Newman, and we know for a fact that Parcells wanted Kevin Williams in that draft and was told by Larry Lacewell and Jerry Jones that they would be taking Newman instead. Looking at the draft history aside from Newman (who was an override), when have you ever seen Parcells or Ireland use a high pick on a cornerback? I don't even know if they have ever selected one in the second or third round, to be honest. Look at their free agency dealings. Last year everyone SCREAMED for some more corners. What did they do? They didn't even sign one, let alone draft one. Now, we lose Andre Goodman, and everyone screams again for a corner. One by one the better cornerbacks get snapped up, and nothing from Miami...until they get the super dynamic and all world prospect ERIC GREEN. These guys don't value the corner position that highly IMO.

So I'm standing here looking at our options at #25 given whom I have going where...and who else would we take?

Laurinaitis? For a 3-4 defense? Really?

Receiver? I believe a receiver is possible, but Nicks is already off the board and I have a real tough time projecting underclassmen track stars who never met a pro receiver route they liked all the way at #25 in the draft. On the other hand, Kenny Britt IS a possibility if things fall the way I have them. Just, not necessarily the possibility that I see in Michael Johnson.

Who else? Ziggy Hood and Peria Jerry gone. Robert Ayers gone. B.J. Raji LONG gone. Aaron Maybin gone. No Brian Orakpo or Everette Brown (though I personally don't know if I'd take them anyway). No Clay Matthews, Rey Maualuga or Brian Cushing...gone, gone, gone.

So, who? No QBs, no RBs, no OTs, no OCs, probably no OGs, probably no TEs, probably no CBs (again, IMO), no Safeties...

That leaves:

Kenny Britt
Jeremy Maclin (or Darius Heyward-Bey)
Percy Harvin
Ron Brace
Jarron Gilbert
Michael Johnson
Connor Barwin
Larrry English
James Laurinaitis

Like I said, Laurinaitis in a 3-4? Not seeing it. Also, unfortunately, not seeing interest in Gilbert. A defensive tackle that can't crack a 5.5 going at #25? Not seeing it. An underclassman who never met a pro receiver route he liked? Not seeing it.

The realistic possibilities are Kenny Britt, Connor Barwin, Michael Johnson and Larry English. Among those, English' grade is not holding up. He didn't play good competition and he's not testing out well. At this point I'm not sure what he has as a prospect that Paul Kruger does not. If you're going to go with a prospect of THAT particular nature, you can wait until the second round. Kenny Britt, very possible but I'm just not quite sold. Connor Barwin or Michael Johnson? Both test out just as well. People want to say that Johnson is more of an underachiever, but why? Barwin was a backup tight end at Cincinnati for years despite all of that athleticism. He performed well on defense this year but he goes from tight end one year, to defensive end the next year, to linebacker the year after that? I do NOT see that. The guy is raw as an onion, and can make you cry as much as one too if you try and put him out at linebacker early and expect him to "get it" right away. He doesn't even "get" defensive end. Now he's supposed to "get" linebacker? Not to mention I've seen the guy pass rush and I'm not totally convinced he's the same quality pass rusher as Michael Johnson. Johnson has been taking on pro quality prospects and beating them for years...he just wasn't a started until this year because he didn't have the stamina.

Last year around this pick they brought in a guy in Phil Merling whom they knew could make an impact as a role player, but whom they knew needed a while in their off season training and conditioning program before he'd be ready to do anything special. I see Michael Johnson as much the same way.

Could I change the pick? Yeah. Like I said, I think they could go with Kenny Britt, MAYBE even Darius Butler or Sean Smith even though it would be basically the first time they've ever valued a CB that high...maybe Connor Barwin too, though I have a hunch on Johnson. And, if something leads me to change my mock to where I have Maybin, Matthews or Cushing dropping to #25, I would have any of those guys going over Michael Johnson.

But this is how I have it.

Sound reasoning. Pick came out of nowhere for me--but I don't know the draft like others do. Most often the Fins pick players that a lot others don't see so I won't be too surprised. My only question is why don't the Fins trade out of the pick? I think they could get Michael Johnson later in the 1st if not in the 2nd--I could be wrong. I think based on your reasoning the Fins should try to trade the pick for more picks and take BPA in the 2nd and later rounds. But that is just me. I really don't like 1st round picks (unless you have legit superstars). I think the real value comes in the 2nd to 5th rounds where REAL scouting etc.. comes into play. I don't believe the Fins are looking for a receiver or CB in the 1st round. I think they go LB/DE BUT it all depends on who or what is available at the time of draft. We shall see.

 

[ckparrothead]

Sound reasoning. Pick came out of nowhere for me--but I don't know the draft like others do. Most often the Fins pick players that a lot others don't see so I won't be too surprised. My only question is why don't the Fins trade out of the pick? I think they could get Michael Johnson later in the 1st if not in the 2nd--I could be wrong. I think based on your reasoning the Fins should try to trade the pick for more picks and take BPA in the 2nd and later rounds. But that is just me. I really don't like 1st round picks (unless you have legit superstars). I think the real value comes in the 2nd to 5th rounds where REAL scouting etc.. comes into play. I don't believe the Fins are looking for a receiver or CB in the 1st round. I think they go LB/DE BUT it all depends on who or what is available at the time of draft. We shall see.

They might trade out of the round. But, someone has to want to trade up. That's always the key, isn't it? Easier said than done, and all that jazz...

 

[SR 7]

I'm not offended about the fact that I'm wrong plenty of times.

You're the one going out of his way to type out big long posts detailing instances where you were right and we were supposedly wrong. You're the one playing up the martyr card by talking about how poor little you was "grilled" about a certain position.

You look foolish and immature when you do something like that. I expect better. Maybe I shouldn't.

Incidentally, I'm not even sure what you're talking about when you talk about bringing something up with me this time or that. I didn't know what your opinion of Dorsey was until you just told me just now. There are thousands of message board posters on this board. I can't keep track of what each of them said about every prospect.

As do posters including myself when we disagree or prove points on why someone isnt what you think they are. We dont expect to get grilled or hammered for it or you acting as if you're the next coming of BP adn we are the next coming of Speilman and Wanny.

Or you making comments that in fact are belittling people and talking **** just bc you dont use the exact words or blunt responses doesnt mean you can be free to speak as if we are some idiot and get away with it or we are too stupid to realize it or its a loop hole for u to get away with it with the mods. Look at ur first post all you did was basically talk **** in a not so blunt sentence, choice of words, and structure.

We expect the same respect but maybe we shouldn't. I know I haven't expected it in a long time now.

 

[FaithfulFinFan]

They might trade out of the round. But, someone has to want to trade up. That's always the key, isn't it? Easier said than done, and all that jazz...

I agree but since the Fins have the 25th pick that is a lot easier to trade than say the 1st. I would think they could trade down 4-5 spots or even into the early 2nd round to a team that has to have a certain player that might be available at the 25th pick. BUT you do have to have a trade partner. I really hope the Fins can in fact trade out and get an additional 2nd and perhaps 4th round pick. That is where I see the value of drafting. The Pats do it better than almost all other teams.

 

[Conuficus]

Funny thing is Dorsey now might be on the block b/c he isn't going to fit the 3-4 scheme that they may run...and long turned out to be a Pro bowl LT...hmm...interesting aint it?

Not that it means much, but I believe there are only two players that are not on the block, and one of them is Cassel. IIRC that was the quote.

Also, it states that he could be on the block. One thing the offseason should say to everyone is that a new regime wants its own players. Jason Taylor found that out, as did Jay Cutler. Cutler should not be in this position, but he is. Why? Because someone new came in and has no loyalty. Each coach and GM want to win with their guys, not the guy's before them.

You may have your beefs with CK, but using that as defacto evidence is a bit of a reach. Your stuff outside of this dispute has its own life I'm sure. But, I don't know if that can be used as empirical evidence. I've seen quotes saying that Hali will at OLB and Dorsey on the nose, so apparently it goes both ways. The quote was from the Chiefs DC I think. I'll see if I can find the link.

SR 7 what is it about Jenkins that prevents him from being a corner? Is that regardless of the scheme played? No matter what scheme he is in he won't be a corner?

Is it his speed? I am curious, I'd like to debate this.

I do not think Jenkins is a great corner in man to man, but in a zone I think he will do very well. Will he go to pro bowls? Maybe not. Does it matter? No.

 

[Dogbone34]

This is a tough draft to call. For now, I'm still good with Johnson or Barwin.

 

[ckparrothead]

As do posters including myself when we disagree or prove points on why someone isnt what you think they are. We dont expect to get grilled or hammered for it or you acting as if you're the next coming of BP adn we are the next coming of Speilman and Wanny.

Or you making comments that in fact are belittling people and talking **** just bc you dont use the exact words or blunt responses doesnt mean you can be free to speak as if we are some idiot and get away with it or we are too stupid to realize it or its a loop hole for u to get away with it with the mods. Look at ur first post all you did was basically talk **** in a not so blunt sentence, choice of words, and structure.

We expect the same respect but maybe we shouldn't. I know I haven't expected it in a long time now.

Was my post, or was it not, in fact, a response to your post where you did basically the same thing? You opened the ad hominem door, dude. I just walked through it.

Learn to do better next time.

 

[NashPhin]

Was my post, or was it not, in fact, a response to your post where you did basically the same thing? You opened the ad hominem door, dude. I just walked through it.

Learn to do better next time.

I think what several people are trying to say is that we love your insight, research, and helpful posts, but could do without a lot of the condescension.

 

[Nappy Roots]

Funny, in the middle of the college football season there were many people on this very board that wanted Michael Johnson at our pick, but some of the responses included

"we better lose the rest of our games because hes a guaranteed top 10 pick"

"we better trade up, cuz he wont be there, hes to good"

blah blah blah and so on. as the NFL season wore on, we began to hear some experts question MJs desire and question why he disappears sometimes. Now we have CK projecting him as our draft pick in his mock and **** hits the fan, no one will touch this guy with a 10 foot pole.

ridiculous...

 

[greasyObnoxious]

They might trade out of the round. But, someone has to want to trade up. That's always the key, isn't it? Easier said than done, and all that jazz...

i think there's some options that would allow us to move down in this scenario. Moreno, Maclin, Heyward-Bey and Beatty are appealing prospects. someone might be willing to dance after all..

 

[Conuficus]

Here SR 7. Here is the link that shows what I said about Dorsey being asked to play the nose.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...y/1106883.html

 

[ckparrothead]

I think what several people are trying to say is that we love your insight, research, and helpful posts, but could do without a lot of the condescension.

I reserve the right to condescend toward people who, through actions, prove less than worthy of respect. The greatest myth is that all you have to do is disagree with me in order to draw such condescension. Not true at all. But disrespect and ad hominem attacks will draw the same from me. And for those that can't see that, I'm sorry for them.

 

[#1dolphinsfan]

if jeremy maclin is there i dont think we will pass on him

 

[JT-forpresident]

I think what several people are trying to say is that we love your insight, research, and helpful posts, but could do without a lot of the condescension.

i'm sorry but a lot of ppl here use that condescension and CK has not really been one of them. Just look at all the mock drafts ppl put up or opinion on certain players, some people answer to those thread with a "you're silly, i'll tell you what's what" response

CK, sometimes, can disagree with some ideas expressed on this forum, but he will always do it politely and write a detailed post explaining why he doesn't agree, and i moreso see the intention of informing people rather than bash them and say they're wrong.