Cold Hard Offensive Facts from the Sentinel

[Pachyderm_Wave]

who do you guys think would make a heck of an oc for us...??? cause i'm looking HARD

I think Bill Musgrave deserves another shot... he's the quarterback coach for the Atlanta Falcons... I remember watching him play QB for Oregon 20 years ago... He learned his trade under coaches like George Seifert and Mike Shanahan...

Or go after Pete Carmichael of the Saints if you can get him...


There's several brilliant candidates out there.... there's some legitimate candidates at the college level as well... They're out there you just have to go find them...

 

[hoops]

I think Bill Musgrave deserves another shot... he's the quarterback coach for the Atlanta Falcons... I remember watching him play QB for Oregon 20 years ago... He learned his trade under coaches like George Seifert and Mike Shanahan...

Or go after Pete Carmichael of the Saints if you can get him...


There's several brilliant candidates out there.... there's some legitimate candidates at the college level as well... They're out there you just have to go find them...

musgrave was awesome while at uva...i should know...its been one big bag of crap oc's there ever since

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

musgrave was awesome while at uva...i should know...its been one big bag of crap oc's there ever since

Exactly... he's the guy that turned Matt Shaub into the NFL quarterback prospect that he's become...

 

[hoops]

i used to enjoy being a uva fan when musgrave was running the offense...i like your candidates

 

[Vaark]

He is all over the place... I've been correcting him for 3 weeks now on this same post and he keeps repeating it...

Arian Foster didn't play his college ball for Notre Dame... he played at Tennessee... the SEC... which he keeps referring to for some reason as underachievers...


If running backs are so easy to find why do teams keep using 1st round picks on them? Why couldn't Miami ever find one? Why did they trade two 1st rounders for a crackhead?

If Saban hadn't drafted Ronnie, this regime wouldn't even have a starting point to run an offense... much less the WildCrutch...



Go back to straining your eyes trying to follow a hockey puck... football just isn't your cup o' tea rev...

Well Ted, I do respect your knowledge and grasp (and your tongue in cheek humor) more than I do most, but when it comes to the pro level "Idiot Sabant" you've got a disconnect...but you are both right and wrong about Foster being from TN and not ND. However I'm right that as an UFA he's a bargain but as the #2 pick in the draft he would have been an under-achiever, yet another SEC one that Saban seemed to gravitate towards instead of broadening his horizons.

I've read a few scouting reports, obviously retroactively, and it sure looks like you're minimizing Aaron Rodgers who some rated the best prospect and also the best arm of the 3 going into the draft. I've seen accounts where SF couldn't decide on Smith or Rodgers up until a day before it began. I've read other scouting reports that put Rodgers as the very best player in the draft, not just QBs. and the following from USA Today's Scouting Report is particularly interesting, especially considering that your boy Saban decided to fix our problems with a guy who likes to put his head through cement walls.

Miami: Six years after Dan Marino retired, the franchise still is searching for the ideal replacement who might ultimately save Nick Saban a ton of headaches.

So bottom-line, forget your Travis Daniels, J Allens, etc.. Saban screwed the pooch on Ronnie over Rodgers. Jake Long was a compelling consensus #1 pick; it was easy to select him and he sure hasn't disappointed. But then again we wouldn't be having these back and forths if Saban had a clue what he was doing.

 

[Rev Kev]

He is all over the place... I've been correcting him for 3 weeks now on this same post and he keeps repeating it...

Arian Foster didn't play his college ball for Notre Dame... he played at Tennessee... the SEC... which he keeps referring to for some reason as underachievers...


If running backs are so easy to find why do teams keep using 1st round picks on them? Why couldn't Miami ever find one? Why did they trade two 1st rounders for a crackhead?

If Saban hadn't drafted Ronnie, this regime wouldn't even have a starting point to run an offense... much less the WildCrutch...



Go back to straining your eyes trying to follow a hockey puck... football just isn't your cup o' tea rev...

I think he stands corrected by you... Czar of Finheaven

As far as your football isn't your cup of tea comment...

Yah I know youur defensive instincts kick in your insecurities - this is your track record you start calling out people "who have apparently never held onto a football" yada yada ya... Same old schtick routine... My mom wears army pants as well... I'm on the floor cowering with shame...

So let's put your shtick crap aside...

1. Saban was not good for this franchise - he left precious diddly squat... in the cupboard...

He drafted a guy whi run through wall board..., he liked SEC players and even drafted Ronnie Brown and we could have had Rodgers all hind-sight... Ronnie proved injury prone

2. I haven't seen the current FO serve up a first rounder for a Tail Back..., have you? They didn't hand out a lucrative contract to keep Ronnie either - that would have been a mistake..., a huge blunder would you agree...?

3. I know it is hard to believe but when your cupboard is left bare with nothing and many of your starters are really only seconds on other teams, it may take a few years to build a contender... Memo to everyone 2008 wasn't reality - we have a first year starter at QB and 2 aging RBs who really don't scare people with their quickness, we have nothing special at TE, and we have some serious skill with BM and Bess.

4. I would guess that there is a plan in place - I don't know the plan but as I look through the roster some of the important roles are filled OLB X2 - 3 DES 4 if you count Starks , 1 MLB (some say 2) lock down CB, WR, QB, LT, RT, PK - what I'm saying is there is a lot to be thankful so go on and cheer for your Falcons...

I know you would prefer Henne fail so that you are tight than Henne lead the team to the SB - everyone can see how ridiculous and subjective your arguments are getting

Back to your name calling...

You really don't know the level of impact that Canadians have had on your game - and there is nothing wrong with hockey... either people play it all around the world - some even follow hockey within Finheaven

 

[NYinBostonFin]

Excuses. Henne has a couple targets in Bess and Marshall that are excellent for a young QB. I've been saying we should've drafted a TE all season but nooooo, Fasano is good enough. No he isn't.

As for the running game, I think some of that can be attributed to a weaker OL, specifically the interior.

Excuses? You said Campell put up more points, no he didn't. The RBs did.

You complain about ronnie, the OC, the HC, no TE (all I agree with)..ever think all these little factors of poor performances have something to do with Henne's play? nah...those are just excuses? please. By the way, there were many question marks about your man love crush Matt ryan at the beginning of the year. He was given time. Not giving any time to our young QB because he wasn't the horse you wanted? Give the guy a break...esp in a week he really wasn't the cause for the loss.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Well Ted, I do respect your knowledge and grasp (and your tongue in cheek humor) more than I do most, but when it comes to the pro level "Idiot Sabant" you've got a disconnect...but you are both right and wrong about Foster being from TN and not ND. However I'm right that as an UFA he's a bargain but as the #2 pick in the draft he would have been an under-achiever, yet another SEC one that Saban seemed to gravitate towards instead of broadening his horizons.

I've read a few scouting reports, obviously retroactively, and it sure looks like you're minimizing Aaron Rodgers who some rated the best prospect and also the best arm of the 3 going into the draft. I've seen accounts where SF couldn't decide on Smith or Rodgers up until a day before it began. I've read other scouting reports that put Rodgers as the very best player in the draft, not just QBs. and the following from USA Today's Scouting Report is particularly interesting, especially considering that your boy Saban decided to fix our problems with a guy who likes to put his head through cement walls.

So bottom-line, forget your Travis Daniels, J Allens, etc.. Saban screwed the pooch on Ronnie over Rodgers. Jake Long was a compelling consensus #1 pick; it was easy to select him and he sure hasn't disappointed. But then again we wouldn't be having these back and forths if Saban had a clue what he was doing.

Arian Foster went undrafted because he could never beat out the backs at Tennessee that were better than him.... but it's not neccessarily because he wasn't a talented player obviously, it's because certain kids in college (especially at RB) will always tend to be underutilized in college and explode in the NFL... because their running style is made for the NFL rather than college.

Franco Harris is in the HOF and could never start for Paterno at Penn St. as a tailback... Priest Holmes was underutilized at Texas because some guy named Ricky Williams was winning Heisman Trophies... I could go on and on...

There are kids in college right now that aren't getting the rock that are going to go on to have exceptional NFL careers... because their style fits the NFL better than it does college... guys like Allen Bradford at USC...




Scouting reports that you're reading on the internet aren't what NFL teams are drafting players on.... Rodgers was coming from a system under Jeff Tedford that was notorious for padding stats and churning out NFL busts... Rodgers was also only a 2 year starter...

If it makes the Bill Parcells c0ck suckers feel any better.... he wouldn't have drafted Rodgers either... He wouldn't draft a QB that high that didn't have at least 3 years of starting experience under his belt...


Saban's busts and underachievers like Jason Allen and Crowder are still here... because this regime can't find anybody good enough to replace them... Saban's bust is leading the team in INT's right now, and is 2nd in the AFC in interceptions and 3rd in passes defended...

Everytime his underchieving Crowder is out... the defense falls apart...

Matt Roth seems to be doing quite well for himself.... Aromashadu was a late round flier that shows up ever now and then in spurts and torches defenses for touchdowns... much more than you can say for Ireland's 3rd round prize Patrick Turner...




Anyway, we've been through these circular discussions enough times to understand where each other is coming from on Saban... he knew exactly what he was doing... which is why he pissed on the south Florida sidewalk on his way out...

He never had the control he was promised... he didn't have the control Bill Parcells had. Parcells could hire any "buddy" he wanted and stick him in a position over his head and most haven't even picked up on it yet..

Saban couldn't even hire who he wanted to coordinate his defense... just ask Will Muschamp... better yet.. ask Wayne Huizenga..

 

[hoops]

hey...i like hockey

 

[Aqua and Orange]

Henning needs to go. Unfortunately won't come during the season because of how much it'll impact the schemes, but I hope we have some new blood at OC next year.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I think he stands corrected by you... Czar of Finheaven

As far as your football isn't your cup of tea comment...

Yah I know youur defensive instincts kick in your insecurities - this is your track record you start calling out people "who have apparently never held onto a football" yada yada ya... Same old schtick routine... My mom wears army pants as well... I'm on the floor cowering with shame...

So let's put your shtick crap aside...

1. Saban was not good for this franchise - he left precious diddly squat... in the cupboard...

He drafted a guy whi run through wall board..., he liked SEC players and even drafted Ronnie Brown and we could have had Rodgers all hind-sight... Ronnie proved injury prone

2. I haven't seen the current FO serve up a first rounder for a Tail Back..., have you? They didn't hand out a lucrative contract to keep Ronnie either - that would have been a mistake..., a huge blunder would you agree...?

3. I know it is hard to believe but when your cupboard is left bare with nothing and many of your starters are really only seconds on other teams, it may take a few years to build a contender... Memo to everyone 2008 wasn't reality - we have a first year starter at QB and 2 aging RBs who really don't scare people with their quickness, we have nothing special at TE, and we have some serious skill with BM and Bess.

4. I would guess that there is a plan in place - I don't know the plan but as I look through the roster some of the important roles are filled OLB X2 - 3 DES 4 if you count Starks , 1 MLB (some say 2) lock down CB, WR, QB, LT, RT, PK - what I'm saying is there is a lot to be thankful so go on and cheer for your Falcons...

I know you would prefer Henne fail so that you are tight than Henne lead the team to the SB - everyone can see how ridiculous and subjective your arguments are getting

Back to your name calling...

You really don't know the level of impact that Canadians have had on your game - and there is nothing wrong with hockey... either people play it all around the world - some even follow hockey within Finheaven

1. Then why are most of his players still here? It's because they can't draft anybody or sign anyone in free agency better... If you're referring to Samoan FB that was running through sheet rock... he was drafted by Cam Cameron and Randy Mueller, not Saban..

2. Agree... I don't think many fans on here would sign and injury prone RB nearing age 30 to a big contract... that's not exactly rocket science.

3. Agree

4. Go Falcons!



You're ok in my book rev kev... lighten up...

 

[Rev Kev]

We have to play some of Saban's picks, the investment they made on behalf of this team is huge, we paid a lot bought high, it's like a stock commodity sometimes you just hold on and pray it makes a turn around and with a J Allen we see that, Crowder hasn't played half bad for a late second rd pick (maybe third)

We are no longer in a rebuild but we need to locate some heart & speed at RB

The FO missed at P Trurner and P White - no suprise that every pick doesn't make the team...

Merling isn't washed up by any means - I liked the build from the trenches mindset now just let Henne play a little in the shot gun so he has morev time to cloacte the D and then our open players... That's what I would like to see...

 

[Rev Kev]

1. Then why are most of his players still here? It's because they can't draft anybody or sign anyone in free agency better... If you're referring to Samoan FB that was running through sheet rock... he was drafted by Cam Cameron and Randy Mueller, not Saban..

2. Agree... I don't think many fans on here would sign and injury prone RB nearing age 30 to a big contract... that's not exactly rocket science.

3. Agree

4. Go Falcons!



You're ok in my book rev kev... lighten up...

You are fine in my book to - I'm a poor writer and sometimes I come across a little rough

 

[Vaark]

Arian Foster went undrafted because he could never beat out the backs at Tennessee that were better than him.... but it's not neccessarily because he wasn't a talented player obviously, it's because certain kids in college (especially at RB) will always tend to be underutilized in college and explode in the NFL... because their running style is made for the NFL rather than college.

Franco Harris is in the HOF and could never start for Paterno at Penn St. as a tailback... Priest Holmes was underutilized at Texas because some guy named Ricky Williams was winning Heisman Trophies... I could go on and on...

There are kids in college right now that aren't getting the rock that are going to go on to have exceptional NFL careers... because their style fits the NFL better than it does college... guys like Allen Bradford at USC...




Scouting reports that you're reading on the internet aren't what NFL teams are drafting players on.... Rodgers was coming from a system under Jeff Tedford that was notorious for padding stats and churning out NFL busts... Rodgers was also only a 2 year starter...

If it makes the Bill Parcells c0ck suckers feel any better.... he wouldn't have drafted Rodgers either... He wouldn't draft a QB that high that didn't have at least 3 years of starting experience under his belt...


Saban's busts and underachievers like Jason Allen and Crowder are still here... because this regime can't find anybody good enough to replace them... Saban's bust is leading the team in INT's right now, and is 2nd in the AFC in interceptions and 3rd in passes defended...

Everytime his underchieving Crowder is out... the defense falls apart...

Matt Roth seems to be doing quite well for himself.... Aromashadu was a late round flier that shows up ever now and then in spurts and torches defenses for touchdowns... much more than you can say for Ireland's 3rd round prize Patrick Turner...




Anyway, we've been through these circular discussions enough times to understand where each other is coming from on Saban... he knew exactly what he was doing... which is why he pissed on the south Florida sidewalk on his way out...

He never had the control he was promised... he didn't have the control Bill Parcells had. Parcells could hire any "buddy" he wanted and stick him in a position over his head and most haven't even picked up on it yet..

Saban couldn't even hire who he wanted to coordinate his defense... just ask Will Muschamp... better yet.. ask Wayne Huizenga..

you're just proving my point with the Holmes, Foster, Marion Barbers and Curtis Martins. Saban did not need to take a RB in the first round.. at the worst he could have signed a FA who likes to put his head through cement walls. JJ Arington as a matter of fact went a few slots above Roth in the second, Frank Friggin Gore, sitting here in his own back yard went in the 3rd, Marion Barber and Sproles in the 4th, etc.. and Ryan Grant, from ND (LOL) was a UFA. My point: I'd rather take the sure thing franchise LT if I'm choosing between a needed early 1st round QB (hello both A Smiths, Couch, Leaf, Russell, Quinn, etc etc) whereas I might think twice choosing between a potential franchise QB and a normally short shelfed RB, especially when LTs don't grow on trees but RBs can be found under rocks.

As far as Saban's self-serving claims of non-support are concerned, **** Ted, I can tell you I nailed Angelina Joli last night and if you want to believe it, I sure look like the ****sman, eh? If you're more skeptical about unlikely happenings in the face of the fact, lets say that WH let Saban hire as many coaches as he wanted so the Fins actually led the league in assistants, then join my club.

Oh and if you want to claim JAllen as a success when the light may be starting to go on 4 years after the fact, why is everyone so anxious to throw Henne with 17 starts to the wolves when up to this point relatively speaking he's shown a helluva lot more potential than JAllen ever did. And Roth? Yeah, once THIS FO repositioned him, he did play and is playing well and yes his departure is a head scratcher. And kudos to Saban I guess for finally venturing from his comfort zone to take a non SEC player.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

you're just proving my point with the Holmes, Foster, Marion Barbers and Curtis Martins. Saban did not need to take a RB in the first round.. at the worst he could have signed a FA who likes to put his head through cement walls. JJ Arington as a matter of fact went a few slots above Roth in the second, Frank Friggin Gore, sitting here in his own back yard went in the 3rd, Marion Barber and Sproles in the 4th, etc.. and Ryan Grant, from ND (LOL) was a UFA. My point: I'd rather take the sure thing franchise LT if I'm choosing between a needed early 1st round QB (hello both A Smiths, Couch, Leaf, Russell, Quinn, etc etc) whereas I might think twice choosing between a potential franchise QB and a normally short shelfed RB, especially when LTs don't grow on trees but RBs can be found under rocks.

As far as Saban's self-serving claims of non-support are concerned, **** Ted, I can tell you I nailed Angelina Joli last night and if you want to believe it, I sure look like the ****sman, eh? If you're more skeptical about unlikely happenings in the face of the fact, lets say that WH let Saban hire as many coaches as he wanted so the Fins actually led the league in assistants, then join my club.

Oh and if you want to claim JAllen as a success when the light may be starting to go on 4 years after the fact, why is everyone so anxious to throw Henne with 17 starts to the wolves when up to this point relatively speaking he's shown a helluva lot more potential than JAllen ever did. And Roth? Yeah, once THIS FO repositioned him, he did play and is playing well and yes his departure is a head scratcher. And kudos to Saban I guess for finally venturing from his comfort zone to take a non SEC player.

Well you can't really say that Saban wasn't comfortable with Roth either... he was familiar with him from playing against him in a bowl game when LSU played Iowa...

The point is, he knows good football players... which is the same reason Parcells is comfortable having all of his players and coaches follow him around to every one of his Operation: Restore Mediocrity projects...

... all coaches operate that way... you need players that are familiar with your system if you can get them.




Saban needed to take Ronnie because he was the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE without the benefit of hindsight at the time... and Miami needed a running back... Go dig up some internet scouting reports on him too while you're at it... Ronnie was reguarded by most as THE best player in that draft... Either way, Saban coached against him... I watched him truck Bama's defense annually...

Evaluating talent isn't a science... it's an art...



None of those other backs that went in the 2nd/3rd rounds were worthy of the #2 overall pick... and had Saban chose any of the other guys besides Ronnie that went in the 1st round of that draft other than Ware, he'd likely have ended up with a COMPLETE bust...


Jason Allen isn't neccessarily a success, but he's been moved from corner to safety back and forth his entire career stunting his development... Henne played 4 years of college football in a pro style system and sat for a year behind a veteran and the coaching staff STILL doesn't trust him because he's the same QB he was when they drafted him for the most part... but they've established ways to coach around that and be somewhat effective...

..the main point about Jason Allen is that he's still here because of his special teams play, and they can't find anybody better... which is disappointing...



You believe what you want about the situation reguarding Saban's tenure, through whatever outlets you like.... others have their own... but only one side adds up when you look at everything...