Does Steve Ross's Age Matter For The Dolphins? | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Does Steve Ross's Age Matter For The Dolphins?

Aquapride1 said:
Seems like an example of stupidity to me, lots to lose with nothing of material significance to gain. If anything I expect the best chance of gain comes from playing a guy on his option year so that he remains hungry and motivated.
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What's to gain by watching Tua play another year?

I keep hearing people say this like it's a thing.

You've watched every snap he's taken for 6 straight years. What skill, ability or level of effort isn't documented at this point by the team who's worked with him for 4 straight seasons? Imagine your boss hiring you and saying with a straight face 4 years down the line, 'I'm just not sure how I feel about you.' Imagine dating someone for 4 years...same thing.

Any fan who wants to wait and reserve judgement is basically casting a vote against Tua without having the courage to come out and at least say it. If you want change at least have the guts to propose it. If people don't like what he is, that's fine, but more games isn't going to change who he is.

It's not like he's going to suddenly develop arm strength he doesn't have or speed he doesn't have or become some dual threat who escapes the pocket and drops bombs while on the run. He won't. He can't. He hasn't ever.

At this point you know what he is and isn't. What's the point in delaying the inevitable? You sign him now and you at least shuffle money around that might allow for others to be included on the roster as well which is a good thing.

And if you don't want him at all you should trade him ASAP while you can get a R2-R4 pick out of some hypothetical deal.

And if you want to draft someone else you do not want a Tua-level QB playing in 2024 ruining your draft chances for 2025.

In reality, letting him play out the 5th year extension actually makes very little sense at all no matter how you look at it. Sign him or trade him but this fictional compromise or "middle way" of having him play out his 5th year option accomplishes nothing from the perspective of getting to where you want to be in 2025 whether you're something who believes that's a new rebuild or the beginning of a new window with this regime.
 
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Mello Yello said:
What's to gain by watching Tua play another year?
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That's a good question. I guess if Mr. Ross believes Tua might be able to lead the Dolphins to a good 2024 season then having him play the 5th year option makes good sense.
If Mr. Ross believes the Dolphins won't able to get to a Superbowl with Tua then he should probably direct Grier to trade him now for whichever players or draft picks the team can get for him.
 
Mello Yello said:
What's to gain by watching Tua play another year?

I keep hearing people say this like it's a thing.

You've watched every snap he's taken for 6 straight years. What skill, ability or level of effort isn't documented at this point by the team who's worked with him for 4 straight seasons? Imagine your boss hiring you and saying with a straight face 4 years down the line, 'I'm just not sure how I feel about you.' Imagine dating someone for 4 years...same thing.

Any fan who wants to wait and reserve judgement is basically casting a vote against Tua without having the courage to come out and at least say it. If you want change at least have the guts to propose it. If people don't like what he is, that's fine, but more games isn't going to change who he is.

It's not like he's going to suddenly develop arm strength he doesn't have or speed he doesn't have or become some dual threat who escapes the pocket and drops bombs while on the run. He won't. He can't. He hasn't ever.

At this point you know what he is and isn't. What's the point in delaying the inevitable? You sign him now and you at least shuffle money around that might allow for others to be included on the roster as well which is a good thing.

And if you don't want him at all you should trade him ASAP while you can get a R2-R4 pick out of some hypothetical deal.

And if you want to draft someone else you do not want a Tua-level QB playing in 2024 ruining your draft chances for 2025.

In reality, letting him play out the 5th year extension actually makes very little sense at all no matter how you look at it. Sign him or trade him but this fictional compromise or "middle way" of having him play out his 5th year option accomplishes nothing from the perspective of getting to where you want to be in 2025 whether you're something who believes that's a new rebuild or the beginning of a new window with this regime.
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This point "You sign him now and you at least shuffle money around that might allow for others to be included on the roster as well which is a good thing" I completely disagree with, and this type of thinking is exactly why the team has sucked for 23 years. Tua's cap hit is ~$22mm next year. Sure it can be lowered for next year, with a new 5 year $250mm deal. But pretty soon, the $22mm cap hit you were trying to avoid, because it impairs the teams ability to sign other players, becomes a $60mm a year cap hit, based on all the money shoved into the future. The cap hit not only becomes 3x the hit you were trying to avoid, but you are also stuck with it for 3 years, as opposed to the $22mm for one year. This line of thinking is akin to taking heroin for a headache. Sure it solves the short term problem, but boy does it leave you alot worse off, and maybe dead, in the future. But that is the story of the Dolphins, bandaid to bandaid. The only reason in my mind to give Tua the 5 and $250mm deal is if you believe in him, and you believe he can carry the team when the bill comes due. Giving him the big long term deal for another reason, like just to lower the cap hit this year, is a huge mistake. Starting point needs to be you fully believe in his value and ability to carry the team when the hit becomes big. The fact that you can lower the cap hit this year is a bonus. Not sure I follow your other points about we know exactly what Tua is, but if we do, why are you so excited about what he is, if what he is is a guy that still has not won the division or a playoff game, and faded badly down the stretch last year, and frankly was not good in the biggest and most important games? Further, we are now obligated to pay him the 5th year option now. That decision has been made. So the choice is between letting him play out the 5th year, or giving him the big new deal now. My question was not really about any of this, but you brought it up. My question was what are Ross's underlying motivations now, and how is he thinking about this stuff, and what are his goals?
 
Mello Yello said:
What's to gain by watching Tua play another year?

I keep hearing people say this like it's a thing.

You've watched every snap he's taken for 6 straight years. What skill, ability or level of effort isn't documented at this point by the team who's worked with him for 4 straight seasons? Imagine your boss hiring you and saying with a straight face 4 years down the line, 'I'm just not sure how I feel about you.' Imagine dating someone for 4 years...same thing.

Any fan who wants to wait and reserve judgement is basically casting a vote against Tua without having the courage to come out and at least say it. If you want change at least have the guts to propose it. If people don't like what he is, that's fine, but more games isn't going to change who he is.

It's not like he's going to suddenly develop arm strength he doesn't have or speed he doesn't have or become some dual threat who escapes the pocket and drops bombs while on the run. He won't. He can't. He hasn't ever.

At this point you know what he is and isn't. What's the point in delaying the inevitable? You sign him now and you at least shuffle money around that might allow for others to be included on the roster as well which is a good thing.

And if you don't want him at all you should trade him ASAP while you can get a R2-R4 pick out of some hypothetical deal.

And if you want to draft someone else you do not want a Tua-level QB playing in 2024 ruining your draft chances for 2025.

In reality, letting him play out the 5th year extension actually makes very little sense at all no matter how you look at it. Sign him or trade him but this fictional compromise or "middle way" of having him play out his 5th year option accomplishes nothing from the perspective of getting to where you want to be in 2025 whether you're something who believes that's a new rebuild or the beginning of a new window with this regime.
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Tua is not that bad
. One of the best in the nfl at the moment.. some concerns yes , but as it sits he's our guy 🐻
 
phinsforlife said:
Steve Ross is not your typical bad owner. He has tried to win, as opposed to using the franchise as his personal piggy bank, like many owners in sports tend to do (for example Loria with the Marlins). He has spared no expense, neither payroll nor team facilities. The just released NFLPA players survey shined a very favorable light on him.

However, in his tenure here as owner, without rehashing all the gory details, he has made a lot of poor decisions when it comes to the coaches and GMs he has hired, as well as some other organizational mistakes.

But, at least, his goal really does seem to have been to win a Super Bowl. Spent the money to try and do it, tanked (poorly) to try and do it, and fired coaches and GMs to try and do it.

Now, is winning a Super Bowl still Steve Ross's goal?

He is 83 years old. He knows the clock is ticking. That is one of the reasons why he is now considering selling a piece of the team.

Is it possible at this point, Steve Ross just wants to not suck again, and go through the pain and embarrassment of another rebuild, that could potentially fail as well, and another wash, rinse, repeat? Is that now Ross's goal for the organization - maintain status quo, put a respectable product on the field, and be done with it? Or alternatively, does he believe what is here is Super Bowl caliber stuff for the next 5-10 years?

It sounds like Tua is going to get his big deal. Do not kid yourself, when it comes to 5 years and $250mm, this is an ownership decision.

The million dollar question is what internally do they really think about Tua? Do they believe he is a Super Bowl winning QB, or do they believe they will be "fine" with Tua back there, and put a decent product on the field, but never truly be a great team, especially if Tua takes up a big portion of the salary cap?

Nobody knows the answer to this question.

The question is, does Tua get this deal because they believe he is that good, or at his age Ross does not want to go through the whole process of finding another QB and stinking while you try and do it, and then hearing everyone complain about what a bad owner he is all over again?

This is just food for thought. I do not know the answer. However, I do think the calculus on this one is quite complex, and there may be more things at play than people realize.

To be clear, nowhere did I say Tua is a bad QB. Nowhere did I say they believe they cannot win a Super Bowl with him getting 5 and $250mm. I am just raising the question about what they really think (as opposed to what they say, because of course when they give him the deal they will tell us he is the guy to win us a SB), and what will really drive their (which in this case will ultimately be Ross) decision making?
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Statistically Tua has been a top 3 qb over the last two years. That is a fact and cannot be argued. We also have 4 straight winning seasons and made two straight playoffs. We have a young promising team and a young promising coach. Why would we blow it up now? Why wouldn’t you pay Tua when lesser qbs like Herbert, Jones & Hurts got paid? Ross could be the owner for another decade. He’s going all in to win a Super Bowl now as he should
 
Highzenga said:
Statistically Tua has been a top 3 qb over the last two years. That is a fact and cannot be argued. We also have 4 straight winning seasons and made two straight playoffs. We have a young promising team and a young promising coach. Why would we blow it up now? Why wouldn’t you pay Tua when lesser qbs like Herbert, Jones & Hurts got paid? Ross could be the owner for another decade. He’s going all in to win a Super Bowl now as he should
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Why do you seem to define moving on from Tua as "blowing up" the team? He's only one player and can easily be replaced with a more mobile QB.
Please don't be misled by Tua's stats compiled against the League's weakest teams and, or garbage time minutes. More relevant is Tua's dismal performance against the best teams and, or during crucial games. Also, for the past two seasons Tua's performance has declined during the second half of the season losing streaks.
 
phinsforlife said:
you know i am not so sure. that was part of my OP. i do believe he really wanted to win a SB, and tried really hard, but was just incompetent, and also had a little bad luck. now, i am worried, at his age, what you describe might be more true OR maybe better said he might be fatigued, and cant stomach starting over again with a new QB or GM. i am still perplexed at the rush to hand tua 5 and $250mm when they could just let him play out his 5th year option, then they can decide after that. look i could be completely wrong. they might fully believe tua is the guy and believe they get him cheaper by locking it down now. but i am worried ross just doesnt want to start over and he thinks the least painful thing to do is to lock tua up now, even if he doesnt believe he is a sb QB
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Why can’t Tua get paid when Herbert, Hurts & Burrow did? Burrow is more injury prone than Tua and Herbert and Hurts are far worse qbs. Weird how you’re “perplexed”
 
Dogbone34 said:
do uber billionaire owners really lose much sleep over holding a football trophy???
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That's what I'm saying.

Just like he's selling a piece now to fund some project in his portfolio (most likely) he'd dump this asset (like a good business man would) if the price was right. Its business plain and simple. Cold hard cash is king and a real estate mogul like Ross his trophy is his money and assets (value). This isn't to say he's a cheap ass or bad owner.....but this illusion he's this die hard football pom pom waving guy wanting a SB isn't him.
 
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Aquapride1 said:
Why do you seem to define moving on from Tua as "blowing up" the team? He's only one player and can easily be replaced with a more mobile QB.
Please don't be misled by Tua's stats compiled against the League's weakest teams and, or garbage time minutes. More relevant is Tua's dismal performance against the best teams and, or during crucial games. Also, for the past two seasons Tua's performance has declined during the second half of the season losing streaks.
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You think moving on from a QB is simple as plug-and-play like moving on from one kicker to another? Tom Brady was able to do it in Tampa Bay, but how many Tom Brady's are there? I think we've seen a lot more Michael Vicks (Philly), Ryan Tannehills (Tennessee), Kirk Cousins (Minnesota), Russell Wilsons (Broncos), and others who show that just plugging in a new QB doesn't guarantee a SB victory.
 
Highzenga said:
Statistically Tua has been a top 3 qb over the last two years. That is a fact and cannot be argued. We also have 4 straight winning seasons and made two straight playoffs. We have a young promising team and a young promising coach. Why would we blow it up now? Why wouldn’t you pay Tua when lesser qbs like Herbert, Jones & Hurts got paid? Ross could be the owner for another decade. He’s going all in to win a Super Bowl now as he should
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i would hope you have a better case than they were stupid so we should be stupid too. also, although easy to say jones is a lesser QB, a lot of actual NFL people would disagree that herbert and hurts are lesser qbs, and you state this as a fact. hurts at least had a year where he showed up in the playoffs, was good, and got his team to a sb. tua still not won a playoff game
 
phinsforlife said:
i would hope you have a better case than they were stupid so we should be stupid too. also, although easy to say jones is a lesser QB, a lot of actual NFL people would disagree that herbert and hurts are lesser qbs, and you state this as a fact. hurts at least had a year where he showed up in the playoffs, was good, and got his team to a sb. tua still not won a playoff game
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It’s a fact that Tua has been better statistically than Herbert & Hurts. He’s also won a lot more than Herbert. Anyone who thinks Herbert has been a better qb than Tua simply is not watching
 
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