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Dorail Green-Beckham

Football is pretty much all DGB has and I'm not sure I've seen his work ethic actively questioned. Gary Pinkel sure was quick to phone his friend Bob Stoops, personally vouch for Dorial, and facilitate a transfer to Oklahoma. Those around the Mizzou program never caught any whiff of Dorial being a sloucher with respect to work ethic or desire to be great. Like many young players (the last time we saw him play football he was just a redshirt freshman) he wasn't completely grasping the mental or technical details yet. That's hardly new of guys who were at high school prom 18 months ago. But those that know his background, I don't think they question that football is all he has and so he's pretty committed to it.

When his girlfriend (whom he'd just dragged out of her apartment by the arm and neck because he caught her cheating on him with a teammate) texted her roommate that night to try and get her roommate not to call the cops or press charges on DGB, that was the explanation that kept coming up in her texts. Football is all he has. It's interesting to me because here is a girl who is clearly mad at him for what he did, probably does NOT believe she will continue to have any connection with Dorial going forward due in part to her philandering and in part to his horrifying reaction to it, but she still felt sorry for the guy. She recognized football is the only good thing he has going in his life and she wanted to help him protect that, despite everything.

Why? Well, the background gives us clues. This is a kid with an incredibly tragic tale. Mother was a crack addict. She OD'd on a drug ****tail while she was 6 months pregnant and at the hospital they pronounced her baby Dorial dead in the womb. Somehow he survived, she carried him to term, and gave birth to him only to have he and his brothers living out of the back of a van with their crack-addicted mother and the men she cycled in and out of her life (any of whom could have been Dorial's father, because nobody knows who that was including her). He and his closest brother Darren go through the foster system, at one point land in a home for physically and sexually abused children, eventually land with a foster couple on a farm. The father (from Coral Gables, big Dolphins fan, played at The U and is still close friends with Al Del Greco) is a football coach. But then the foster mother develops thyroid cancer, childrens services take Dorial and Darren away to place them in the care of blood relatives, split up Darren and Dorial (causing 10 pounds of weight loss each from sheer depression), and the Beckhams had to press on Missouri politicians through connections to get the two kids back in their care and officially adopt them, which they did even though the mother was being treated for thyroid cancer. But then in 2011, Darren is diagnosed with leukemia and has to go live at All Children's Hospital. The father took a leave of absence from work and lived with him while Dorial prepared to be the most coveted football recruit in the country (which he was, Phil Steele said he was the best wide receiver recruit he'd seen since Randy Moss).

Doesn't excuse what Dorial did the night he found out his girl was cheating on him with a teammate. Nothing excuses that. But what I take away from the story is that of the four closest people in his life, two are cancer survivors, one is a football coach and a veritable saint, and the other (an older, adopted brother) played for Army, has finished his service, and has been living with Dorial in Oklahoma to help him stay driven.

Talk to scouts about Dorial Green-Beckham and they don't see someone like Josh Gordon who essentially needs marijuana to function because of some untreated mental health issues. They see a kid that goes with the flow, does what the cool kids do with respect to the marijuana history. Got busted with some other kids for having a little bit of pot on him, then got busted again for being in the presence of a friend who was carrying a pound of weed. Probably has some drug test failures in his time at Missouri.

They see a kid that needed structure and the right crowd around him at Missouri, but didn't really get that. But he did get it at Oklahoma, and he's been both a model worker and model citizen there. He only left for the Draft early because his offensive coordinator with whom he developed a close relationship Jay Norvell left the program.

What I see is a receiver that is probably the most purely physically gifted that I've seen since Calvin Johnson, up there with A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, with the pure potential to exceed them. I also see a kid that has a surprisingly good (considering his origins) support structure around him between his Army brother who is willing to live with him and take an active role keeping him on the straight and narrow, his adoptive parents, and his cancer surviving younger brother.

So I'm looking at all this from an asset valuation standpoint. Taking him is a risk. But every draft pick is fraught with risk. Much of the risk of those picks is tied up in the risk that the player just isn't all that good. I'm not sure that's much of a risk with Dorial Green-Beckham. Some would compare him to a Mike Williams (USC) and I think that's fair because they have/had the same body, much of the same athletic movement, some of the same issues. But Dorial is purely faster and that counts for something. You see enough corners and safeties that you KNOW have 4.50 speed, look absolutely flabberghasted at how to handle Dorial Green-Beckham's speed, well that's why we're making Calvin Johnson comparisons I think.

And it's not just fans saying that. There are a lot of scouts making the exact same statements about he and Calvin Johnson or he and Randy Moss. Albert Breer just had a piece yesterday where he's got quotes from several scouts saying exactly that.

This is 90% assumptions and excuses.

He was delt one really bad card in life with his family life and one really good one with his natural ability. He has a legit excuse for his stupid decisions, but that by no means, means he will turn it around.

I don't put much stock into a player staying out of trouble for 12 months, when he knows he has millions waiting for him if he just stays clean. That's not exactly hard to do even for the biggest **** ups.

I hope everything turns out great for him, hope he interviews well, And reaches his ceiling, but most of the times it doesn't happen. They get there rookie deal and than remind the world Why they had character and work ethic concerns.

I don't care how athletic he is, if you don't love football, you won't be jack **** in this league. Stop saying hes some kind of hard working, mis-understood kid, who hung out with a bad crowd.

Nothing he's done suggest that is true. Comparing this guy to the best WRs in NFL history is about as ridiculous as it gets. And that's coming from someone who really likes DGB.

Calvin, Moss, Dez, Green? Seriously were comparing him to those guys? You got to be kidding me.
 
I'm not into excuse-making at all. That's a misperception on your part.

I'm an asset valuator. Literally, that's my job. My "real" job so to speak. So what I'm doing is valuing a football asset. I'm not awarding medals. I'm not writing apologies for anyone. I'm valuing a future stream of football performance.

Why did I bring up Dorial's background, crack-addicted mother, hard childhood, etc? Because it gives the context for why football is so important to him. It gives a context for why a girlfriend who just cheated on the man and who was (rightfully) pissed at him for dragging her out of her apartment by the arm and neck in response, would try and convince her roommate not to involve the police by saying that football is all DGB has going for him in his life. Football and the Beckhams were the only way out of a horrifying life for DGB. So yeah I would kind of expect football to be pretty important to him.

You say that keeping your nose clean for 12 months or so in preparation for the Draft is not a big deal. I think that's a fair point. But I also think that if Dorial Green-Beckham has the problems controlling his behavior that some people believe he does (a la Josh Gordon, a common comparison, or Johnny Manziel) then keeping his nose clean for even 12 months would be virtually impossible for him regardless of the payoff. Honey Badger sure as hell couldn't keep his nose clean for 12 months in order to try for a big payoff at the end. So yeah, I think that can be hard to do for big ****ups.

One assumption you keep making, without stating any evidence, is that Dorial Green-Beckham has "work ethic concerns". Would you care to share your evidence on that? Because I've not seen any. I'm open to the evidence if that's the case. I just haven't seen it, and I do have sources close to the Missouri program on this one.

Again this isn't about demonstrating "legit excuses" for bad behavior. This is about asset valuation. This is about the prospect of making football decisions based on non-football factors, which I find in general to be a dangerous task and one that should not be done casually.
 
One assumption you keep making, without stating any evidence, is that Dorial Green-Beckham has "work ethic concerns". Would you care to share your evidence on that? Because I've not seen any. I'm open to the evidence if that's the case. I just haven't seen it, and I do have sources close to the Missouri program on this one.

Well for one, I generally associate WRs who don't run many routes, to eiher be new to the position, or not putting in the work. To me there's no other excuses there, which is why I generally always prefer To draft WRs who have shown a larger route tree.

Second, I associate not giving a damn about your teammates or your coaches or the organization, to the point you got yourself kicked off the team, to be bad work ethic.

What's you "asset valuation" on the amount of work, time, and resources, thrown down the drain because this kid decided to do whatever he wanted?
 
It gives a context for why a girlfriend who just cheated on the man and who was (rightfully) pissed at him for dragging her out of her apartment by the arm and neck in response, would try and convince her roommate not to involve the police by saying that football is all DGB has going for him in his life. .

Rightful to be pissed or rightful for dragging her out of the apartment by the arm and neck and pushing her down a flight of stairs (You keep leaving that detail out. Why is that?)

And the real reasons behind neither one of the women not filing a report where...

The alleged victim told police “she was afraid of the media and community backlash since Green-Beckham is a football player for the University of Missouri and is possibly going to be in the NFL Draft soon.”

She also told police she was worried about being harassed or having her property damaged and that she “did not want to deal with the mental stress of the whole ordeal, it was already making her physically sick to think about.”

The other 18-year-old resident told police she didn’t want to press charges because she was “afraid of retaliation against her and her property.
 
Rightful to be pissed or rightful for dragging her out of the apartment by the arm and neck and pushing her down a flight of stairs (You keep leaving that detail out. Why is that?)

And the real reasons behind neither one of the women not filing a report where...

He did not push his girlfriend down the steps. He shoved her roommate, who fell down 4 or 5 steps. I'm not attempting to hide anything, and I can guarantee that if anyone in this thread is attaching emotional content into the evaluation, it would not be me.

As for the explanation for why his girlfriend did not press charges, yes you have it correct that the girlfriend later went on to recant what she had previously said via private text messages to her roommate the morning of the incident.

The evening that all this happened, the following is what she texted her roommate as she attempted to convince the roommate not to press charges:

In the texts exchanged between the female victim and Green-Beckham's girlfriend, his girlfriend stated: "Dorial was wrong in every way and you have every right to be furious. I'm not sticking up for him but football really is all he has going for him and pressing charges would ruin it for him completely...without football he really does have nothing...he wouldn't make it in a real job."

Later is when she contradicted these texts by claiming she was not pressing charges because she was "afraid of retaliation against her and her property". Except that when the Columbia met with her, "he stated she was fine, she had no injuries and was not concerned for her safety."

I am certainly not opposed to presenting all of the facts and evidence. Are you?

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:40 PM ----------

Well for one, I generally associate WRs who don't run many routes, to eiher be new to the position, or not putting in the work. To me there's no other excuses there, which is why I generally always prefer To draft WRs who have shown a larger route tree.

You mean like a redshirt freshman playing at a program whose perimeter wide receivers are generally not known for running a full route tree? Ok.

Second, I associate not giving a damn about your teammates or your coaches or the organization, to the point you got yourself kicked off the team, to be bad work ethic.

What's you "asset valuation" on the amount of work, time, and resources, thrown down the drain because this kid decided to do whatever he wanted?

We have different ideas of what constitutes a work ethic. That's fine. I prefer a more detail oriented approach.
 
Football is pretty much all DGB has and I'm not sure I've seen his work ethic actively questioned. Gary Pinkel sure was quick to phone his friend Bob Stoops, personally vouch for Dorial, and facilitate a transfer to Oklahoma. Those around the Mizzou program never caught any whiff of Dorial being a sloucher with respect to work ethic or desire to be great. Like many young players (the last time we saw him play football he was just a redshirt freshman) he wasn't completely grasping the mental or technical details yet. That's hardly new of guys who were at high school prom 18 months ago. But those that know his background, I don't think they question that football is all he has and so he's pretty committed to it.

When his girlfriend (whom he'd just dragged out of her apartment by the arm and neck because he caught her cheating on him with a teammate) texted her roommate that night to try and get her roommate not to call the cops or press charges on DGB, that was the explanation that kept coming up in her texts. Football is all he has. It's interesting to me because here is a girl who is clearly mad at him for what he did, probably does NOT believe she will continue to have any connection with Dorial going forward due in part to her philandering and in part to his horrifying reaction to it, but she still felt sorry for the guy. She recognized football is the only good thing he has going in his life and she wanted to help him protect that, despite everything.

Why? Well, the background gives us clues. This is a kid with an incredibly tragic tale. Mother was a crack addict. She OD'd on a drug ****tail while she was 6 months pregnant and at the hospital they pronounced her baby Dorial dead in the womb. Somehow he survived, she carried him to term, and gave birth to him only to have he and his brothers living out of the back of a van with their crack-addicted mother and the men she cycled in and out of her life (any of whom could have been Dorial's father, because nobody knows who that was including her). He and his closest brother Darren go through the foster system, at one point land in a home for physically and sexually abused children, eventually land with a foster couple on a farm. The father (from Coral Gables, big Dolphins fan, played at The U and is still close friends with Al Del Greco) is a football coach. But then the foster mother develops thyroid cancer, childrens services take Dorial and Darren away to place them in the care of blood relatives, split up Darren and Dorial (causing 10 pounds of weight loss each from sheer depression), and the Beckhams had to press on Missouri politicians through connections to get the two kids back in their care and officially adopt them, which they did even though the mother was being treated for thyroid cancer. But then in 2011, Darren is diagnosed with leukemia and has to go live at All Children's Hospital. The father took a leave of absence from work and lived with him while Dorial prepared to be the most coveted football recruit in the country (which he was, Phil Steele said he was the best wide receiver recruit he'd seen since Randy Moss).

Doesn't excuse what Dorial did the night he found out his girl was cheating on him with a teammate. Nothing excuses that. But what I take away from the story is that of the four closest people in his life, two are cancer survivors, one is a football coach and a veritable saint, and the other (an older, adopted brother) played for Army, has finished his service, and has been living with Dorial in Oklahoma to help him stay driven.

Talk to scouts about Dorial Green-Beckham and they don't see someone like Josh Gordon who essentially needs marijuana to function because of some untreated mental health issues. They see a kid that goes with the flow, does what the cool kids do with respect to the marijuana history. Got busted with some other kids for having a little bit of pot on him, then got busted again for being in the presence of a friend who was carrying a pound of weed. Probably has some drug test failures in his time at Missouri.

They see a kid that needed structure and the right crowd around him at Missouri, but didn't really get that. But he did get it at Oklahoma, and he's been both a model worker and model citizen there. He only left for the Draft early because his offensive coordinator with whom he developed a close relationship Jay Norvell left the program.

What I see is a receiver that is probably the most purely physically gifted that I've seen since Calvin Johnson, up there with A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, with the pure potential to exceed them. I also see a kid that has a surprisingly good (considering his origins) support structure around him between his Army brother who is willing to live with him and take an active role keeping him on the straight and narrow, his adoptive parents, and his cancer surviving younger brother.

So I'm looking at all this from an asset valuation standpoint. Taking him is a risk. But every draft pick is fraught with risk. Much of the risk of those picks is tied up in the risk that the player just isn't all that good. I'm not sure that's much of a risk with Dorial Green-Beckham. Some would compare him to a Mike Williams (USC) and I think that's fair because they have/had the same body, much of the same athletic movement, some of the same issues. But Dorial is purely faster and that counts for something. You see enough corners and safeties that you KNOW have 4.50 speed, look absolutely flabberghasted at how to handle Dorial Green-Beckham's speed, well that's why we're making Calvin Johnson comparisons I think.

And it's not just fans saying that. There are a lot of scouts making the exact same statements about he and Calvin Johnson or he and Randy Moss. Albert Breer just had a piece yesterday where he's got quotes from several scouts saying exactly that.

Great post. Appreciate the insight. Guy is so damn talented...people like to act like they know him personally. People **** up sometimes when they're that young. Sure everyone else is a saint.
 
You mean like a redshirt freshman playing at a program whose perimeter wide receivers are generally not known for running a full route tree? Ok.

The Breer article you pointed to, even sourced a scout who said he runs two routes. In two years is Mizz, he learned 1 route per year. Sorry that doesn't scream to me a player with work ethic.

We have different ideas of what constitutes a work ethic. That's fine. I prefer a more detail oriented approach.

Lmao, I don't even know what that means.
 
The Breer article you pointed to, even sourced a scout who said he runs two routes. In two years is Mizz, he learned 1 route per year. Sorry that doesn't scream to me a player with work ethic.

You do realize the coaches decide what routes the players will run within the context of the system, right? Or did you believe that players on every play just decide what routes they're going to run on the fly?
 
You do realize the coaches decide what routes the players will run within the context of the system, right? Or did you believe that players on every play just decide what routes they're going to run on the fly?

That's an excuse I haven't heard before.

So they spent all that time, resources, and reps, bringing in the #1 recruit in the nation because they only wanted him to run 2 routes.

Doubtful.
 
That's an excuse I haven't heard before.

So they spent all that time, resources, and reps, bringing in the #1 recruit in the nation because they only wanted him to run 2 routes.

Doubtful.

I don't know why I even bother. I really don't.
 
DGB has all the talent and skills to make him a top big receiver....whether or not he can become a Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson largely depends on how bad he wants it, his work ethic, getting with the right guys and coaches. I think he is worth the risk if he is there at #14.
 
Calvin might be the best prospect to ever enter a draft.

If DGB became half the player Calvin has been, that Would probably be considered a successful draft pick.

Bo Jackson

[video=youtube;LVSPwXz9MF4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVSPwXz9MF4[/video]
 
Football is pretty much all DGB has and I'm not sure I've seen his work ethic actively questioned. Gary Pinkel sure was quick to phone his friend Bob Stoops, personally vouch for Dorial, and facilitate a transfer to Oklahoma. Those around the Mizzou program never caught any whiff of Dorial being a sloucher with respect to work ethic or desire to be great. Like many young players (the last time we saw him play football he was just a redshirt freshman) he wasn't completely grasping the mental or technical details yet. That's hardly new of guys who were at high school prom 18 months ago. But those that know his background, I don't think they question that football is all he has and so he's pretty committed to it.

When his girlfriend (whom he'd just dragged out of her apartment by the arm and neck because he caught her cheating on him with a teammate) texted her roommate that night to try and get her roommate not to call the cops or press charges on DGB, that was the explanation that kept coming up in her texts. Football is all he has. It's interesting to me because here is a girl who is clearly mad at him for what he did, probably does NOT believe she will continue to have any connection with Dorial going forward due in part to her philandering and in part to his horrifying reaction to it, but she still felt sorry for the guy. She recognized football is the only good thing he has going in his life and she wanted to help him protect that, despite everything.

Why? Well, the background gives us clues. This is a kid with an incredibly tragic tale. Mother was a crack addict. She OD'd on a drug ****tail while she was 6 months pregnant and at the hospital they pronounced her baby Dorial dead in the womb. Somehow he survived, she carried him to term, and gave birth to him only to have he and his brothers living out of the back of a van with their crack-addicted mother and the men she cycled in and out of her life (any of whom could have been Dorial's father, because nobody knows who that was including her). He and his closest brother Darren go through the foster system, at one point land in a home for physically and sexually abused children, eventually land with a foster couple on a farm. The father (from Coral Gables, big Dolphins fan, played at The U and is still close friends with Al Del Greco) is a football coach. But then the foster mother develops thyroid cancer, childrens services take Dorial and Darren away to place them in the care of blood relatives, split up Darren and Dorial (causing 10 pounds of weight loss each from sheer depression), and the Beckhams had to press on Missouri politicians through connections to get the two kids back in their care and officially adopt them, which they did even though the mother was being treated for thyroid cancer. But then in 2011, Darren is diagnosed with leukemia and has to go live at All Children's Hospital. The father took a leave of absence from work and lived with him while Dorial prepared to be the most coveted football recruit in the country (which he was, Phil Steele said he was the best wide receiver recruit he'd seen since Randy Moss).

Doesn't excuse what Dorial did the night he found out his girl was cheating on him with a teammate. Nothing excuses that. But what I take away from the story is that of the four closest people in his life, two are cancer survivors, one is a football coach and a veritable saint, and the other (an older, adopted brother) played for Army, has finished his service, and has been living with Dorial in Oklahoma to help him stay driven.

Talk to scouts about Dorial Green-Beckham and they don't see someone like Josh Gordon who essentially needs marijuana to function because of some untreated mental health issues. They see a kid that goes with the flow, does what the cool kids do with respect to the marijuana history. Got busted with some other kids for having a little bit of pot on him, then got busted again for being in the presence of a friend who was carrying a pound of weed. Probably has some drug test failures in his time at Missouri.

They see a kid that needed structure and the right crowd around him at Missouri, but didn't really get that. But he did get it at Oklahoma, and he's been both a model worker and model citizen there. He only left for the Draft early because his offensive coordinator with whom he developed a close relationship Jay Norvell left the program.

What I see is a receiver that is probably the most purely physically gifted that I've seen since Calvin Johnson, up there with A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, with the pure potential to exceed them. I also see a kid that has a surprisingly good (considering his origins) support structure around him between his Army brother who is willing to live with him and take an active role keeping him on the straight and narrow, his adoptive parents, and his cancer surviving younger brother.

So I'm looking at all this from an asset valuation standpoint. Taking him is a risk. But every draft pick is fraught with risk. Much of the risk of those picks is tied up in the risk that the player just isn't all that good. I'm not sure that's much of a risk with Dorial Green-Beckham. Some would compare him to a Mike Williams (USC) and I think that's fair because they have/had the same body, much of the same athletic movement, some of the same issues. But Dorial is purely faster and that counts for something. You see enough corners and safeties that you KNOW have 4.50 speed, look absolutely flabberghasted at how to handle Dorial Green-Beckham's speed, well that's why we're making Calvin Johnson comparisons I think.

And it's not just fans saying that. There are a lot of scouts making the exact same statements about he and Calvin Johnson or he and Randy Moss. Albert Breer just had a piece yesterday where he's got quotes from several scouts saying exactly that.
CK -- Great insight and makes me think he just might be worth it at #14. That's a lot for me to say having lived through Ricky Williams' problems in Miami.
 
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