ESPN James Walker: Fins have 3rd best defense........in the AFC East

[Statler Waldorf]

Most people use YPG to determine a defense, the Jets had a lot of turnovers last season which is why their PPG is so high. Not all of the turnovers were on offense, they had a lot of ST turnovers as well.

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Which would you rather have, a team that allows 15 points per game but allows 300 yards per game, or a team that allows 30 points per game but only 150 yards per game? Obviously you'd want the team that allows only 15 points per game, that's why scoring defense is more important than "total defense" (which is really just yards per game). Miami was 1st in scoring D and 2nd in Total D, the Jets were 1st in Total D and 3rd in Scoring D, so either way you slice it Miami's D still ranks best in the entire division.

 

[Jetsfan0099]

Which would you rather have, a team that allows 15 points per game but allows 300 yards per game, or a team that allows 30 points per game but only 150 yards per game? Obviously you'd want the team that allows only 15 points per game, that's why scoring defense is more important than "total defense" (which is really just yards per game). Miami was 1st in scoring D and 2nd in Total D, the Jets were 1st in Total D and 3rd in Scoring D, so either way you slice it Miami's D still ranks best in the entire division.

Again, the Jets allowing so many points had to do with turnovers. How many turnovers did the Jets have last season that resulted in TDs for the other team? That all adds up to the PPG stat....

 

[Wildbill3]

Why??? Rex is one of the best defensive minds in the game... Last year with Rex not being hands on with the defense and allowing Pettine to call the plays resulted in Brady tearing them up in 2 games. Though one game brady was very lucky and should have thrown 3 INTs in the first half if not for drops. But when Rex is involved, the Jets defense shutdown Brady 3 out of the 5 times they played in 2009/2010.

because he's no sean peyton. and very few coaches have been good when they pull double duty.

 

[jlfin]

Why is he a clown? Everything he said is true. The Bills got Mario Williams AND Mark Anderson to improve their d line a ton, the Jets defense is demonstratively better than our's, and our pass D still sucks.

Historically, teams that spend a lot of money on big money free agents look good on paper before the season, but never seem to live up to the hype (Calvin Pace, Joey Porter etc). What he said isn't true, it HIS opinion. Mark Anderson is an enigmatic player who played really well for Bellichick and there is no guarantee he can repeat that success.
Williams is a good player, but the Texans proved that he isn't indispensable.

 

[Statler Waldorf]

Again, the Jets allowing so many points had to do with turnovers. How many turnovers did the Jets have last season that resulted in TDs for the other team? That all adds up to the PPG stat....

The Jets are not good enough to compensate for turnovers? Even if we take out all of the points off of turnovers and special teams the Jets were still 12th in scoring defense (which isn't really fair because I didn't give all the other teams the same courtesy so they probably actually still rank close to 20 if things were fair).

 

[Spesh]

don't be obtuse. I'm working with the knowledge that A.) our defense cost us the a lot of game last season esp in the beginning. B.) nolan was the DC (which I don't know why the **** i'm explaining this, probably has something to do with a poster being obtuse. C.) the D failing is ultimately on mike nolan. Of course the team failing is ultimately on sparano. which is why those two both deserved to be fired. I have no problem with saying the phins have the 3rd place D going into the season. heck I have no problem wtih saying they have the fourth place D. You don't subtract things like coaches and players and expect to have people see those as pluses.

btw if nolan didn't turn the unit around, then who did? who deserves the credit for making the D respectable by the end of the season? in this very thread someone said bowles deserves the credit. if so, I don't know how anyone could defend nolan based on last years 7 games of crap and 9 games of reduced authority. (waiting on confirmation of his "demotion".)

Oh, i have no doubt that your working with such knowledge. I never had any doubt that you were working with the assumption that our defense failed us. I never stated otherwise. What i suggested, which i said im plain english, is that this teams failures were more then just defense. Our defense wasnt the only reason why this team started out 0-7. The lack of quarterbacking, running game, conditioning, lack of proper coaching, dropped passes, and (yes) defensive struggles caused us to start the season without a win. Why this seems to be a point of contention with you is beyond me.

And im fairly certain that i agreed with you that Nolan deserves the blame for the units failing and the praise for its turn around. Have this vague feeling that i stated something to that effect. Lets try this quote:

Im not sure im understanding the point. Nolan deserves blame for the first few games of struggling but he also deserves credit for turning the unit around? I'll agree with that.

And my bad! I totally missed the fact that someone randomly posted an "fact" about how Nolan was demoted. I especially enjoyed the overwhelming evidence presented with that "fact". And im the one thats obtuse. Sure. Got it.

 

[Kinzua]

and you know that how?

B-b-because Jabba is a top ten coach in the NFL.

 

[The Goat]

news flash, the pats D is prob better than ours too.

This would be a news flash...in OPPOSITE WORLD.

 

[The Goat]

Most people use YPG to determine a defense, the Jets had a lot of turnovers last season which is why their PPG is so high. Not all of the turnovers were on offense, they had a lot of ST turnovers as well.

YPG the division ranks like this

1-Jets 5th overall
2-Dolphins 15th overall
3-Bills 26th overall
4-Patriots 31st overall

The Jets run defense wasn't in the bottom half of the league either, they started off bad but they improved. They finished 13th in the league for YPG. The Jets were tied for 6th in average per carry, teams averaged 3.9 YPC vs the Jets.

Our pass defense was top 5.

You're aware that the bolded can be looked at in another light, right? If your ST turns the ball over, the opponents don't have to go very many yards to score. It could easily be argued that your YPG was lower because the Jets provided their opponents with shorter fields.

Trying to separate the two stats simply doesn't work.

 

[KDog13]

Who cares what a writer writes? It's all words, only the play will determine where we are at!

I think people only want to hear good news as well, and are quick to criticize something when it's not in our favor. When in reality, all it is, is mere thought, and mostly bull****.

WAR DOLPHINS!

 

[nyjunc]

Nor did I predict in 08 that the jest would actually regress from 9-7 to 7-7 + 2 charitable knees. Who knew :idk:

if going from 9-7 choking away a season w/o Brady playing for NE and the easiest sched we have all seen in decades to a title game app the next season is regressing I'd love to regress every year.

The Jets didn’t know this while they were playing the game though, and yet they still couldn’t beat a team they were “much better” than? Funny how that works.



Nope, 5 of 7. I know it must really hurt.



Head to head speaks much louder, and you guys don’t fare so well against us when that happens.


Yup, we had nothing to play for, you guys had everything to play for and we still beat you guys without two of our best players on the field.


Not according to NFL.com, but even if you were, that’s still not 6[SUP]th[/SUP]



According to whom? You? Lol. The stats don’t lie, we were a top defense last season, you guys were not.



Your Defense didn’t allow Tebow to come back and beat them? I seem to remember otherwise, I also seem to remember Tim beating the number 1 Defense in the league as well, so your argument is shot. Why do you keep fudging the stats? We allowed 23 points per game over the first seven games, you guys allowed 23 points per game over the entire season! Over the entire 16 game schedule last year we had a better defense, period. Your own running back that practiced against your D everyday even admits that.



To Warren Sapp on NFL Total Access.

We needed 4-5 teams to lose, as it turned out all except 1 did lose but the odds were against us much like 2008. you guys like to think you ended our seasons each time but in reality you didn't.

It doesn't hurt b/c we have been the much better team, the difference btw 2-4 the last 3 years to 3-3 was 3 non offensive TDs in the '09 game at home. How come you leave out the '08 opener and only use the 2nd game from '08?

Domination is 8-0 like the Jets were against Miami from '98-'01, not 5-3 like Miami has gone against us the last 4 seasons.

I would expect you to say that since Miami hasn't even competed for a playoff spot but I'd rather get swept by Miami every year and win more games, get to more postseasons and win postseason games than sweep them and suck.


Did you go through all the teams and remove their O/STs pts allowed? how would you know?

according to logic, show me a great D that started 0-7? great D's will find a way to get some wins. Your D was average as was ours.

Our D did allow Tebow to lead ONE drive, we didn't allow 2 TDs and a 2pt conversion in the final 2 mins.

Our D gave up 20.4 PPG and our D wasn't playing meaningless games the last 10 weeks.

post some evidence.

---------- Post added at 08:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 AM ----------

You're aware that the bolded can be looked at in another light, right? If your ST turns the ball over, the opponents don't have to go very many yards to score. It could easily be argued that your YPG was lower because the Jets provided their opponents with shorter fields.

Trying to separate the two stats simply doesn't work.

I agree w/ you, I said I don't think we were as bad as 20th in PA or as good as 5th in YA.

 

[The New Guy]

We needed 4-5 teams to lose, as it turned out all except 1 did lose but the odds were against us much like 2008. you guys like to think you ended our seasons each time but in reality you didn't.

The Dolphins didn't end the Jets season in 08 because the Jets were already out of it before they played Miami. The Jets could have knocked Miami out of the playoffs, but the win wouldn't have got the Jets in. It would have sent NE instead of Miami.

The Dolphins did knock the Jets out in 2011. Going in to the Miami game, the Jets needed a win and 3 other teams to lose (which were all very real possibilities) They needed the Titans to lose to Houston, Cincinnati to lose to Bal and either Oak to lose to SD, or Den to lose to KC. All lost but Houston who got beat by the Titans by 1 point. The only game being played the same time the Jets were playing Miami was the Texans / Titans game. That game did not end until after the Dolphins beat the Jets, so it didn't matter what the other 3 teams did at that point. Yes, the Houston loss would have also ended the Jets season even if they beat Miami, but the Dolphins struck the final blow before the Titans had a chance. So, in reality the Dolphins did knock the Jets out of the playoffs.

 

[nyjunc]

The Dolphins didn't end the Jets season in 08 because the Jets were already out of it before they played Miami. The Jets could have knocked Miami out of the playoffs, but the win wouldn't have got the Jets in. It would have sent NE instead of Miami.

The Dolphins did knock the Jets out in 2011. Going in to the Miami game, the Jets needed a win and 3 other teams to lose (which were all very real possibilities) They needed the Titans to lose to Houston, Cincinnati to lose to Bal and either Oak to lose to SD, or Den to lose to KC. All lost but Houston who got beat by the Titans by 1 point. The only game being played the same time the Jets were playing Miami was the Texans / Titans game. That game did not end until after the Dolphins beat the Jets, so it didn't matter what the other 3 teams did at that point. Yes, the Houston loss would have also ended the Jets season even if they beat Miami, but the Dolphins struck the final blow before the Titans had a chance. So, in reality the Dolphins did knock the Jets out of the playoffs.

It was the same thing both years, had the Jets won they wouldn't have made the playoffs. In 2008 we needed NE and bal to lose but they both won, in 2011 we needed 4-5 teams to lose and all but one lost so it was close but a win was meaningless either way.

I guess it makes you guys feel better to think you knocked us out but had we won either game we wouldn't have made either postseason. we choked away both postseason spots in the weeks leading up to those week 17 games.

 

[DuderinoN703]

It was the same thing both years, had the Jets won they wouldn't have made the playoffs. In 2008 we needed NE and bal to lose but they both won, in 2011 we needed 4-5 teams to lose and all but one lost so it was close but a win was meaningless either way.

I guess it makes you guys feel better to think you knocked us out but had we won either game we wouldn't have made either postseason. we choked away both postseason spots in the weeks leading up to those week 17 games.

Nothing the Dolphins have done has made me feel better actually. Others may try and paint it as if they've made a difference against the Jets but not me. The Dolphins have beaten the Jets a few times the last few years but obviously that didn't amount to anything come playoff time.

 

[The New Guy]

It was the same thing both years, had the Jets won they wouldn't have made the playoffs. In 2008 we needed NE and bal to lose but they both won, in 2011 we needed 4-5 teams to lose and all but one lost so it was close but a win was meaningless either way. I guess it makes you guys feel better to think you knocked us out but had we won either game we wouldn't have made either postseason. we choked away both postseason spots in the weeks leading up to those week 17 games.

It was not the same both years. In 2008, NE had already beaten Buff in the early game before the Dolphins / Jets even played the game. The Jets were already out of it going into the Dolphins game at 4:15pm. NE had already knocked them out. In 2011, the Jets were still alive during the Miami game. They lost to the Dolphins before any of the other games ended. It didn't matter what else happened after the Jets lost to Miami. The Dolphins had already knocked them out. It has nothing to do with making me feel better, it has to do with the facts. None of the other games mattered after Miami beat the Jets first. I guess it makes you feel better to know that you would have missed the playoffs anyways since Houston lost by 1 point after the Jets did.