Finheaven's QB Rankings? | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Finheaven's QB Rankings?

Southbeach 2 said:
Ya know, I find it kinda strange that with all the past ripping and wanting to draft a new QB or play Moore, that there has been next to nothing like that on this thread. It does appear that most are very happy with Tannehill. Wonder why?
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People just look at the stat line or the W/L result. People were really down on the QB after the Ravens game and I said afterward that I had no idea why... I thought he played a pretty good game and was really keeping us in that one despite no running game, terrible pass protection, and an outrageous number of drops at critical moments. And Caleb Sturgis being a pile of ****.

It's why people thought Robert Griffin was the best thing ever last year, even though he has serious deficiencies as a quarterback. I see people saying "Yeah, he's not the same if he's not as athletic." Well no ****, he isn't a good drop-back passer in a pro offense. You force him to do that and he's a marginal football player.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
We've all seen countless QB ratings and rankings from many a site and tons of experts/analysts. They have been dissected and trisected with endless stats and opinions. This is different.

Pick the QB you would most want for this team at this time, and rank the QB's you would want over Tannehill. Everything should be considered, age, talent, potential, system, and surrounding players, etc.

Some may want an All Pro to win now. Others may want a QB who grow with the team, and be here for 10-15 years. Should be interesting to see what the forum thinks.
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Mark S.anchez!
That's all I want for Christmas.
 
GasPed said:
I didn't describe a player that doesn't exist - I described an elite passer. You took my description to mean "perfect" passer, and so you came up with your "that player doesn't exist" line, which was neither as helpful nor as clever as you might think.
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I'm sorry but I have an aversion to hyperbole.

"throw after throw, drive after drive, in clutch situations, without getting the ball knocked down or picked." is what you wrote. Sorry but that is over the top. Does Peyton Manning not qualify now? He threw a pick in crunch time last night.

The point is that every QB make mistakes even the elite ones and there are too many posters on this forum that look for ways to keep Tannehill out of the upper echelon of the league's QBs and the claims that you made for "elite" QBs were excessive IMO.

GasPed said:
Tom Brady, despite all of the turnover and injuries on his team, still has almost a 90 QBR and has his team at a 10-3 record. When I watch him play, I still see an elite passer, and I think you do too - our whole gameplan for the Pats every season (including this one) is "how do we stop Brady from shredding us?" If you disagree, feel free to elaborate.
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He didn't shred us earlier this year.

Passing Cmp Att Yds TDs
T. Brady 13 22 116 1

He didn't make throw after throw, drive after drive. In fact he was AWFUL in the first half and for most of the game. But, that doesn't mean he isn't elite, just human.
 
There's a lot of people who can't see the forest of football reality for the trees of stats that get in their way.... it's actually kind of funny. Especially when they scramble later on to explain away how they were so wrong, or funnier yet when they scramble for new stats to support why NOW they see what football-knowledgeable people saw long ago.

Those of us who played the game know what kind of things to look for- and we don't need an ESPN stat sheet to tell us what we know or don't know. Let the comedy continue and the fools play on.....

Oh, and by the way, I would rank R. Tannehill as my top QB if I had to choose one for the next 10 yrs. His upside is unbelievable based on what we've seen, but what puts him over the top for me is his durability. He's lean and strong and knows how to take a hit (and how to avoid some). His experience at WR is paying huge dividends and will continue to do so for a long time.
 
LoneStarPhin said:
There's a lot of people who can't see the forest of football reality for the trees of stats that get in their way.... it's actually kind of funny. Especially when they scramble later on to explain away how they were so wrong, or funnier yet when they scramble for new stats to support why NOW they see what football-knowledgeable people saw long ago.

Those of us who played the game know what kind of things to look for- and we don't need an ESPN stat sheet to tell us what we know or don't know. Let the comedy continue and the fools play on.....

Oh, and by the way, I would rank R. Tannehill as my top QB if I had to choose one for the next 10 yrs. His upside is unbelievable based on what we've seen, but what puts him over the top for me is his durability. He's lean and strong and knows how to take a hit (and how to avoid some). His experience at WR is paying huge dividends and will continue to do so for a long time.
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Then it should be only too easy to find statistics that support all that. The more trouble you have finding them, the more likely you are to be experiencing confirmation bias.
 
shouright said:
Then it should be only too easy to find statistics that support all that. The more trouble you have finding them, the more likely you are to be experiencing confirmation bias.
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No, actually it shouldn't be easy to find a pure measure of an individual's performance in a team sport as complex as football. YPA is widely held as an important metric of passing offense and defense. It is complex and nuanced enough to have many articles written about what it means, how it is affected by different aspects of the offense (QB play, pass protection, receiver play, offensive philosophy, game conditions, etc). It is not the Rosetta Stone you make it out to be.

You warn about confirmation bias with respect to what fans perceive when they watch the Fins at the same time as admitting that you are focusing on YPA because you "perceive a strong correlation between YPA and consensus opinions of QBs". WTF?
 
FinfanInBuffalo said:
No, actually it shouldn't be easy to find a pure measure of an individual's performance in a team sport as complex as football. YPA is widely held as an important metric of passing offense and defense. It is complex and nuanced enough to have many articles written about what it means, how it is affected by different aspects of the offense (QB play, pass protection, receiver play, offensive philosophy, game conditions, etc). It is not the Rosetta Stone you make it out to be.
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YPA is one measure of many. If you believe none of those measures has meaning with regard to individual ability because football is a team sport, then you implicitly consider meaningless the statistical milestones achieved by the greatest individual players in the history of the game.

You can't say statistics are meaningless to gauge individual ability, while at the same time touting any one player's statistical achievements as indicative of his individual performance.

If statistics lose meaning, they lose meaning completely. Is that how far you want to go?
 
shouright said:
YPA is one measure of many. If you believe none of those measures has meaning with regard to individual ability because football is a team sport, then you implicitly consider meaningless the statistical milestones achieved by the greatest individual players in the history of the game.

You can't say statistics are meaningless to gauge individual ability, while at the same time touting any one player's statistical achievements as indicative of his individual performance.

If statistics lose meaning, they lose meaning completely. Is that how far you want to go?
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If YPA is just one of many, why is that the only one you harp on? Why dismiss other stats (e.g. air yards) that put Tannehill in the top 8 in the league. As you have seen, that stat is more consistent year over year for QBs than YPA is.

No ONE stat is the be all, end all stat, especially one that is so heavily influenced by things outside of the control of the QB.

Statistics are WORSE than meaningless when "analyzed" in a vacuum. They are deceptive, sometimes purposefully so.

IMO, Dan Marino is the greatest QB of all time. He does not have the best alltime YPA, or QBR, or completion %. But, if you watched him play. If you understand he wasn't supported by a running game, didn't have HOF quality receivers, didn't have a good defense, etc, etc, etc, you knew you were watching greatness. Up until they changed the rules on defense, he was the only QB that I have ever seen that could consistently perform when everybody in the stadium knew he was going to throw the ball. Where the F#ck does that show up on the stat sheet?
 
FinfanInBuffalo said:
IMO, Dan Marino is the greatest QB of all time. He does not have the best alltime YPA, or QBR, or completion %. But, if you watched him play. If you understand he wasn't supported by a running game, didn't have HOF quality receivers, didn't have a good defense, etc, etc, etc, you knew you were watching greatness. Up until they changed the rules on defense, he was the only QB that I have ever seen that could consistently perform when everybody in the stadium knew he was going to throw the ball. Where the F#ck does that show up on the stat sheet?
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The third-most passing yards in the history of the game.
 
To me, the most important thing is where are we now and how will we be in the future. Going with that theme, here are the QB's that I think 10 years from now ill be considered among the best of the last 3 QB classes.

1. Luck
2. Tannehill
3. Wilson
4. RGIII
5. Foles

Those top 3 are going to be Top 5 QB's in this league after the Peyton/Brady/Brees generation retires. Rodgers still has quite a few years left, but Luck, Tannehill and Wilson will eventually get into that conversation.
 
shouright said:
In order:

1) Rodgers
2) Wilson
3) Rivers
4) Ryan
5) Luck
6) Stafford
7) Foles
8) Kaepernick
9) Newton
10) Dalton

Tannehill may improve in the future to the point that the list changes, but in the absence of a guarantee of such improvement, which is impossible, I have to substitute any of the above for him at the present time.

And if Manning, Brees, Brady, Romo, and Roethlisberger were younger and entering or not too far into their primes, I'd take them over Tannehill, as well, which puts Tannehill currently 16th in the league on my list, right about average.
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Shou..wtf is that list. Your a stat guy...and you put Foles there? Andy Dalton? Colin Kap?

Dear lord..I'm glad u aren't our GM.



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And looking only at stats..had you taking Andy Dalton over RT. I'd draft Ryan Tannehill...no question in my mind.

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