Harris will be to the DL what James was to the OL: pure MEH. | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Harris will be to the DL what James was to the OL: pure MEH.

ck and simon are both positive about the pick. guys who do this more than a hobby. that has some weight imo.
 
SCLSU Mud Dogs said:
The Freeney comparison is because of Harris' insane spin move. And he's actually got a great first step with a great motor, along with explosiveness. How would you judge explosiveness? Vertical jump? Broad jump? Harris had a 38 inch vertical jump at his pro day, which is one of the best measurements for explosiveness.
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1. Great motor. When I use GREAT MOTOR -- that means all out play not only through the play but IN ALL PLAYS on the field. You don't take plays off. You don't want it sometimes and not others. If you see that in Harris, fine. imo, it's a question mark.

2. Explosiveness is usually a mix of things like bench press, vertical, broad -- and I include 40. The SPARQ measurements are usually great indicators.

Harris isn't GREAT in either of those two categories, imo.

He ranks in 45th percentile in SPARQ on NFL level.

I'd have traded down and gotten additional picks and taken a more explosive player at his position -- less polished player with more upside.

I only advocate using 1st round picks on plug and play, for the most part. The most complete player at a point of need or BPA. Miami got neither a complete player at point of need nor BPA.

LD
 
dolfan_101 said:
ck and simon are both positive about the pick. guys who do this more than a hobby. that has some weight imo.
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I tend to like the opinions of both those guys.

But the facts are the facts in this case, imo. An average athlete with a decent first step and lots of question marks as to being a complete player.

LD
 
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LDaniel7 said:
1. Great motor. When I use GREAT MOTOR -- that means all out play not only through the play but IN ALL PLAYS on the field. You don't take plays off. You don't want it sometimes and not others. If you see that in Harris, fine. imo, it's a question mark.

2. Explosiveness is usually a mix of things like bench press, vertical, broad -- and I include 40. The SPARQ measurements are usually great indicators.

Harris isn't GREAT in either of those two categories, imo.

He ranks in 45th percentile in SPARQ on NFL level.

I'd have traded down and gotten additional picks and taken a more explosive player at his position -- less polished player with more upside.

I only advocate using 1st round picks on plug and play, for the most part. The most complete player at a point of need or BPA. Miami got neither a complete player at point of need nor BPA.

LD
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Bench press has nothing to do with explosiveness, that tests strength. The primary tests for explosiveness are the vertical and broad jumps.

And no, motor or effort was never a question mark with Harris. It was a question mark for guys like Taco Charleton and Malik McDowell.

I'm not worried about Harris' 40 time because the 40 is a straight line speed test. Defensive ends are rarely sprinting, and also rarely playing the game in a straight line.

SPARQ also rated Dalvin Cook, one of the most dynamic running backs in college football, as a poor player. That's all I really have to say about the SPARQ test.

Again, other than the top of the draft, you're not finding a more explosive defensive end than Harris.

This draft could have played out in multiple ways. Trade back, pick up an OL, and then get a less talented DE later. Or pick up a more talented DE in round 1 and still get a starter on the offensive line in round 2/3.

If you think Harris was drafted strictly because of his year 1 impact, then you're wrong. Harris' selection was to be the next premier De on this team for the next decade. Whether he plays 50% of the snaps or 100% of his snaps in year 1 means nothing to me. What means something is long-term success and getting a player who year after year can be depended on as a playmaker.
 
Im happy with the pick. Opposite of what Jordan is in comparison to work ethic and motor. Can never have too many pass rushers. Wake is getting up there in age and we need somebody to be ready to step up when Wake retires. Which could be very soon.
 
When Charles Harris is smashing Tom Brady in the grille and forcing fumbles you'll change your negative opinions very fast. Charles Harris is called, "Black Ice," I suggest you watch him effect games as an assassin coming off the edge before you judge. Imagine Harris on one side, Wake on the other, Suh in the middle all coming after the QB, I'm sure the Dolphin FO envisions that as pretty unstoppable. When I look at tape on Harris I see a lot of Wake, one day Harris will replace Wake in a vitally important position.
 
Those of us who aren't happy with the pick have legit concerns. Those of you who just see those concerns as typical Fin-bashing, what can we say except go back and look at the threads before the draft where we said "we don't want Harris" and gave reasons why not. But now we're supposed to be nursing semis because not to do so is to be a "typical Finheaven poster"

Chile, pleeze.

For my part, Harris is player who has sacrificed a huge part of being a defender in order to be great at one part. Maybe because he isn't elite athletically, he has figured that he can't be "distracted" or tired out by the other aspects of defense if he wants to be an effective rusher. And he's a very effective rusher, no question.

The thing for me is, he doesn't track the play or the football on any kind of regular basis. He just locks into the one-on-one with his blocker and zones out of the rest of the game. Don't expect this guy to get his hands up to block passing lanes, set the edge, hustle to take down RBs and receivers in the backfield, pursue when a run breaks the LOS... you get the picture. Because all his focus is going on rushing.

So, what if you can develop him? Sure. Maybe you can teach him to be more aware, to put the same or at least acceptable dedication into the run and into pursuit. You'll probably have to ask him to bulk up in order to be more effective at it. When you've done that, will you still have the same pass rush effectiveness? Who knows. Maybe, because he's quite refined technique-wise. But he's not one of those athletic freaks who can take a split second to read the O before he keys off. He has to time the snap and go for it.

Those are questions most of the league appears to be asking about Harris, if you read the various reports and write-ups.

I love guys for whom the game seems a second slower than the rest. Guys who can read what's going on and react with their top shelf natural ability. I would have given tradeups for Hooker and Allen serious thought when they fell a little, for that reason.

Harris for me is kind of the opposite of that. He is head-down rather than head-up. He's engaged in his own personal war with his blocker/s. Make no mistake, he wins those battles a lot and the outcome is good for his team when he does. But others will have to pitch in to do the stuff that Harris won't. I don't believe that's the healthiest pick at 22 for Miami.

We will see.
 
This team needed a DE and you guys complain because they didn't take who you wanted them to take, and now you want to get rid of the whole regime? give it a rest because this guy have not played an NFL down as of yet. Sheessh! it's ok to complain about everything in life but lets give this kid and this team a chance, or maybe you should apply for the General managers job.
 
Many of you don't realize William Hayes is a 1 year rental and Cam Wake could retire after any season now at his age. DE is a need and you usually don't get skilled pass rushers in the 20's of drafts. Best way to improve your secondary is to also get to the QB. This move does that

Guards there are a ton left and a few good LB's and DT's as well. The draft doesn't end after 1 round.....still lots of time for Miami to get more players
 
For those all about the numbers, Harris actually tacked on 5.5" to his vertical at the pro day to up it to 37.5 and 9" onto his broad to up it to 9 ft 8.
 
MikeO said:
Many of you don't realize William Hayes is a 1 year rental and Cam Wake could retire after any season now at his age. DE is a need and you usually don't get skilled pass rushers in the 20's of drafts. Best way to improve your secondary is to also get to the QB. This move does that

Guards there are a ton left and a few good LB's and DT's as well. The draft doesn't end after 1 round.....still lots of time for Miami to get more players
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Jordan Willis, Malik McDowell, Daeshon Hall are just three rushers available in Round 2 who have at least the upside of Harris in my opinion. Nobody said "don't draft a DE", most of us didn't even say "don't draft a DE in Round 1". We just said "don't draft Charles Harris".

Can't speak for anyone else but I didn't say "Fire the FO" either. I just don't think it was the best pick we could have made at 22.
 
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