Harris will be to the DL what James was to the OL: pure MEH. | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Harris will be to the DL what James was to the OL: pure MEH.

I didn't want to agree with the thread starter at first, but after thinking about it, I agree 100%. Will Harris become the second coming of Cam Wake? Maybe, but so what! Cam Wake's explosiveness off the edge didn't help to correct our biggest defensive deficiency last year, the run.

We finished 30th in run defense last year, giving up 140 yards per game. How does Charles Harris help that?

The Patriots consistently beat us because Tom Brady is smart enough to get the ball out of his hands before our rush gets to him. Will Harris be able to stop that? No. Will Harris help to stop Gillislee from running the ball down our throats like Blount did so effectively? No. Will Harris be able to cover the Patriots never ending stable of TEs and pass catching backs? No.

I hope whatever magical adjustments to the defense that Grier mentioned in a previous press conference somehow help make our scheme more effective against the run because Harris isn't going to help that. Sure, we had to get younger at the DE spot, but this wasn't the way to go about doing that.
 
I understand those that are concerned, and I also understand why some are happy about taking Harris. Really we don't know what we have until we start seeing him play in NFL games. If Harris will learn from Cam Wake about diet, how to be a pro, etc. then I am hopeful he can help us. He's a dolphin now, so I am pulling for him. I hope he surprises us all (in a good way). Go Dolphins!
 
LDaniel7 said:
The truth.

Sad. But true.

Harris a better college player than a pro, imo.

LD
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Considering he has never played a down...hell he hasnt even stepped on the practice field in the nfl...how can you say hes a better college than pro player?
 
Sons Of Shula said:
Solomon Thomas is one of the draft's top defenders and Lynch made the right gamble on Foster sliding down.
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Solomon Thomas is a fantastic prospect.. truth. So Lynch gambles that Foster will be there at the end of the 1st round when he considered him 2??. Wow . I honestly think you don't actually believe that nonsense. I can handle that some don't like the pick as much as others, but really? Does anybody believe Lynch saw that big a drop for Foster ?. Unless Lynch had the same info others did that something raised some major red flags


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SCLSU Mud Dogs said:
So what athletic limitations does Harris have? I bet youre looking at combine numbers instead of actually watching him play.

And what defensive end other than ****ing myles garrett is great against the pass and the run?

Harris has one of the best motors in this draft and is probably the most complete pass rusher other than garrett.

Horrible thread. Absolutely ****ing horrible

---------- Post added at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 AM ----------

Also, I trust a room full of NFL scouts over some Joe's on an internet forum. Sorry, not sorry.
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Nailed it. Said it better than I could have. Great value at 22.
 
Harris jumped 37 1/2" and 9'10". Those look fine, except it's his best trait, and they are below high-end for a 253lb DE/Edge. His agility drills were terrible, and he's slow. Put simply, Harris falls below all athletic thresholds for the position best predicted by athletic thresholds. He also falls well below production thresholds.

So, Harris falls short of both big-picture thresholds. I think people have a strange fascination with his tape, because when he wins, it's flashy. It's rare that he beats his guy by gaining an inch and letting his athleticism take over. This would be more efficient, but I suspect Harris' athleticism prevented it from being a reality. So, he has a sweet spin move, and he looks really busy, even when he's not doing anything, because he has to really set up the OT to win. And, this, I believe, is the reason his production doesn't match the hype. Unless he jumps the snap, he needs a spectacular, somewhat time-consuming, move to win. By the time he's won, if he won, it's too late.

I hope I'm wrong. I said in another thread that some smart people really like him, but I really don't see it with Harris. Dwight Freeney comparisons are misguided on every level. Freeney was an elite athlete with elite production. But, spin move . . . Anyway, I'll be rooting for Harris, hoping that he's the next Marcus Golden. There are always exceptions/surprises, but it's unwise to go looking for the needle in the haystack in RD1.
 
We're very fortunate that Harris didn't have a spectacular combine, because otherwise he wouldn't have been there at 22. Because that's the only reason. He's got the full repertoire of pass-rushing moves. And he's a hungry dog. Huge upside.
 
At the end of the day, we needed a young pass rusher and you cannot deny that Harris showed elite traits on film even if he didnt test well. People I really respect both love (MattyI) and hate (j-off) the pick. But I see it woth the gamble
 
Once every six plays, he either pressured, hit or sacked opposing QB's. Tops in the nation... I'm on my phone, please don't make me reference that
 
None of this whining and overreaction is unexpected here.

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SCLSU Mud Dogs said:
Do I think Charles Will be a double-digit sack guy in the NFL? Yes.

He has more likelihood of being better than Wake long-term because he won't take a route through Canada to get into the NFL

He doesn't have to be those things in year 1 and 2 because Wake is still here and the other players on the defensive line.
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So why not wait and draft a similar type player in a year or two? I'm not bashing the pick, I just prefer an immediate starter in the first round.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Harris jumped 37 1/2" and 9'10". Those look fine, except it's his best trait, and they are below high-end for a 253lb DE/Edge. His agility drills were terrible, and he's slow. Put simply, Harris falls below all athletic thresholds for the position best predicted by athletic thresholds. He also falls well below production thresholds.

So, Harris falls short of both big-picture thresholds. I think people have a strange fascination with his tape, because when he wins, it's flashy. It's rare that he beats his guy by gaining an inch and letting his athleticism take over. This would be more efficient, but I suspect Harris' athleticism prevented it from being a reality. So, he has a sweet spin move, and he looks really busy, even when he's not doing anything, because he has to really set up the OT to win. And, this, I believe, is the reason his production doesn't match the hype. Unless he jumps the snap, he needs a spectacular, somewhat time-consuming, move to win. By the time he's won, if he won, it's too late.

I hope I'm wrong. I said in another thread that some smart people really like him, but I really don't see it with Harris. Dwight Freeney comparisons are misguided on every level. Freeney was an elite athlete with elite production. But, spin move . . . Anyway, I'll be rooting for Harris, hoping that he's the next Marcus Golden. There are always exceptions/surprises, but it's unwise to go looking for the needle in the haystack in RD1.
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J, have you read the Football Outsider's SackSEER article? I missed it before the draft but I checked it out when I saw we picked a DE. Talk about disheartening...

Who knows though.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Harris jumped 37 1/2" and 9'10". Those look fine, except it's his best trait, and they are below high-end for a 253lb DE/Edge. His agility drills were terrible, and he's slow. Put simply, Harris falls below all athletic thresholds for the position best predicted by athletic thresholds. He also falls well below production thresholds.

So, Harris falls short of both big-picture thresholds. I think people have a strange fascination with his tape, because when he wins, it's flashy. It's rare that he beats his guy by gaining an inch and letting his athleticism take over. This would be more efficient, but I suspect Harris' athleticism prevented it from being a reality. So, he has a sweet spin move, and he looks really busy, even when he's not doing anything, because he has to really set up the OT to win. And, this, I believe, is the reason his production doesn't match the hype. Unless he jumps the snap, he needs a spectacular, somewhat time-consuming, move to win. By the time he's won, if he won, it's too late.

I hope I'm wrong. I said in another thread that some smart people really like him, but I really don't see it with Harris. Dwight Freeney comparisons are misguided on every level. Freeney was an elite athlete with elite production. But, spin move . . . Anyway, I'll be rooting for Harris, hoping that he's the next Marcus Golden. There are always exceptions/surprises, but it's unwise to go looking for the needle in the haystack in RD1.
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Yeah he will be terrible especially now that they've changed the rules to were lineman have to run 40 yards or shuffle from cone to cone to get a sack now...

There are no drills that measure their first step or pass rushing moves/hand and feet quickness for short burst or any other drills that measure success of a lineman. Watch his tape, he is constantly in the backfield and chases runningbacks from the opposite side of the field and tackles them. He will be learning from one of the best pass rushers of the decade in wake which will add to his already pretty complete pass rush moves. He's questionable in the run but come on honestly how many 4-3 d ends are great in pass rush and great in the run? Honestly can't think of any. Let the ends rush and linebackers clean up the run.
 
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