hoops scoops...potential #19 pick lb ryan shazier tale of the tape... | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

hoops scoops...potential #19 pick lb ryan shazier tale of the tape...

Cant we get a solid lb in the second round? we only seem to be linked to first round ones

thanks for coming in here and throwing a buffer...it's gonna be tough in round 2 i'd say...only one that might be in consideration to do what we need is probably borland but i dont know that you take a chance on that size and average athlete that high plus he's had 2 shoulder surgeries...i do know he has the instincts you look for but will he be exposed in coverage on 3rd down...

toughest grade in the class for me...there's not many 3 down options i know that much at mike at least...more will options but i mean you got wheeler and jenkins to compete with snaps there right now...
 
Williamson from Kentucky in the fourth round.... will contribute on first and second down immediately.... has the instincts and good athletic ability.... good run stopper....
 
Hoops' writing style is fine. Took me quite a while to get used to it but now I can decipher everything.

I appreciate write ups like this, even if I don't agree with everything. This is the most valuable type of analysis, the breakdown of specific players leading to the draft.

Mocks are worthless, IMO. The only mocks I care about are the ones immediate after the draft, spotlighting the following year's draft. I can save those versions and identify value, the players who have been unfairly downgraded 12 months later.
 
I'm doing a count of O-linemen Shazier and Mosley face on running plays. Through two games for each (MSU, Wisconsin for Shazier; LSU, Auburn for Mosley), Shazier dealt with O-linemen on 19/31 rushing attempts, and Mosley dealt with O-linemen on 23/58 rushing attempts. I'm going to do more games, but the preliminary results concur with what I expected - Alabama's 2-gap line keeps Mosley cleaner than does Ohio State's D line. I'll post the results after I've done 5 games for each.

Here's an area I really love Shazier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWOS89MXTJ4&t=6m56s

If you watch multiple games, he does this pretty frequently. If he's man-up on a RB, and that RB stays in to block, your QB is at risk. MSU got its RB out into the flat more often than is common, and I expect it had a lot to do with Shazier. His closing burst is world-class. And when RB's do release into pass patterns, his coverage is very good.

Finished the 5 game survey for each. For Shazier, I tallied MSU, IU, Clemson, Wisconsin, and Michigan; for Mosley, LSU, A&M, Oklahoma, Auburn, and Arkansas. Shazier dealt with O-linemen on 76 out of 109 designed runs, and Mosley dealt with O-linemen on 63 out of 126 designed runs - that's 70% to 50%. So based on this sample, Shazier does deal with more O-linemen than Mosley.

Well done on the film study and quant research. I enjoy posts like these that really raise the bar.

I don't know who in their right mind would watch the film and come away believing that C.J. Mosley had to deal with more blockers than Ryan Shazier.

Let's keep things at a basic level here. Ohio State had their nickel defense on the field a LOT with only 6 men in the box constantly. Often there were only 5 men in the box. Their defensive coaches (Luke Fickel, nearly fired during the off season) did not do a very good job keeping the front seve- uhh, five-or-six out of bad situations where the offense had more blockers than the defense had to defend. Put that together with some shoddy defensive line play and inconsistent pursuit from other defenders and this was a recipe for Ryan Shazier to be anything but clean to the football.

Don't take my word for it. Here is an example of a play that many people are going to see and say this guy is horrible, he doesn't get off blocks, etc. But they'll generally be missing the details of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Po4n2xehbc&feature=player_embedded#t=36

The first problem on this play is that Clemson offensive coordinator Chad Morris has created an extremely uncomfortable situation for the defense called and coached by Luke Fickell. Just look at the numbers advantage. The offense has 7 straight up blockers plus an 8th man jetting horizontally. The fly sweep prevents the play side safety from crowding up to the line of scrimmage to help even out the numbers advantage, because he has to respect the fly sweep. This ensures that the numbers advantage will remain, especially since on this play the QB is the ball carrier.

Let's keep in mind what this numbers advantage is. Normally if the QB is the ball carrier and he has 7 blockers against 7 defenders in the box, this is considered a numbers advantage for the offense as there's enough blockers to get a hat on every hat leaving nobody free to the ball carrier. This is even worse than that. This is 7 blockers to 6 defenders.

Bm60Cn8CMAEOGGq-1.jpg


The second problem on the play is that the "deuce" combination block developing between Clemson LT Brandon Thomas and LG Kalon Davis is completely neutralizing Ohio State DT Adolphus Washington, sweeping him so far horizontally that he neutralizes fellow DT Michael Bennett (who himself didn't look all that interested in getting involved in the play). Brandon Thomas achieves such vertical push he's able to easily get to the second level and wipe out LB Camren Williams.

As the fly sweep man comes in the linebacker (Joshua Perry) that had been lined up on him unattached takes his sweet time coming back to the inside and then screws up his pursuit by hesitating and taking a poor angle. The back side safety (C.J. Barnett) similarly screws up his cleanup angle. Both of these men were completely unblocked and well within range to tackle Tajh Boyd for a short or perhaps a medium gain. If Perry had done an outstanding job on the play he may have read the lack of threats to get to the outside of him, knifed into the backfield and caught Boyd for perhaps even a loss on the play. If he felt uncomfortable with that he should have gotten Boyd for about a 5 or 6 yard gain. Barnett could have gotten him down at about the same gain if he'd done a good job.

But a lot of people are going to look at Ryan Shazier and see him take on the lead blocker in the hole and say that he didn't get off the block like he should have to make the play on the ball carrier. Bollocks to that. Shazier sealed the outside shoulder of the lead blocker with a hard hit in the hole leaving Boyd to float right through where the defense should've had help to get him down. But the help didn't get there.

And that happened a lot this year on Ohio State's defense. All of the above, constantly. The defense would start out disadvantaged schematically, then the defensive linemen would lose gap control, pursuit players wouldn't get where they were supposed to be, and Ryan Shazier has upwards of one or even two blockers to deal with on the play.

And if people think that was happening at Alabama with their extremely STRONG defensive linemen and well coached scheme, well hey then we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one. Mosley is a good player with good instincts, but he had a free path to the ball a lot. Even when there were blockers out in the second level that could have picked him off they often didn't get out there clean and so he was able to beat them to the spot. And when the blockers did get there the defensive line and pursuit players often squeezed the lane and got the ball down so it never left the viewer with the kind of bad taste in their mouth that they often got when either Ryan Shazier made the play at Ohio State or nobody did.

Finally I will leave you with an example of what happened when Ohio State's defense played a lot better with fewer numbers disadvantages and better defensive line play. This is the Indiana game.

[video=youtube;wASW1LsnAHc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wASW1LsnAHc[/video]

You'll notice a big difference from this game to a lot of the others in the way the defensive linemen were able to hold up, keep their gap control and squeeze the lanes. Even when blockers went out into space on Shazier, they didn't come out clean or with great angles and he was able to beat them.

He had 20 tackles in this game including 5.0 TFLs, 1.0 Sacks, 1 PBU and 1 Forced Fumble. He was a one-man wrecking crew. That's the upside if you actually keep him clean like other linebackers out there.
 
Well done on the film study and quant research. I enjoy posts like these that really raise the bar.

I don't know who in their right mind would watch the film and come away believing that C.J. Mosley had to deal with more blockers than Ryan Shazier.

Let's keep things at a basic level here. Ohio State had their nickel defense on the field a LOT with only 6 men in the box constantly. Often there were only 5 men in the box. Their defensive coaches (Luke Fickel, nearly fired during the off season) did not do a very good job keeping the front seve- uhh, five-or-six out of bad situations where the offense had more blockers than the defense had to defend. Put that together with some shoddy defensive line play and inconsistent pursuit from other defenders and this was a recipe for Ryan Shazier to be anything but clean to the football.

Don't take my word for it. Here is an example of a play that many people are going to see and say this guy is horrible, he doesn't get off blocks, etc. But they'll generally be missing the details of the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Po4n2xehbc&feature=player_embedded#t=36

The first problem on this play is that Clemson offensive coordinator Chad Morris has created an extremely uncomfortable situation for the defense called and coached by Luke Fickell. Just look at the numbers advantage. The offense has 7 straight up blockers plus an 8th man jetting horizontally. The fly sweep prevents the play side safety from crowding up to the line of scrimmage to help even out the numbers advantage, because he has to respect the fly sweep. This ensures that the numbers advantage will remain, especially since on this play the QB is the ball carrier.

Let's keep in mind what this numbers advantage is. Normally if the QB is the ball carrier and he has 7 blockers against 7 defenders in the box, this is considered a numbers advantage for the offense as there's enough blockers to get a hat on every hat leaving nobody free to the ball carrier. This is even worse than that. This is 7 blockers to 6 defenders.

Bm60Cn8CMAEOGGq-1.jpg


The second problem on the play is that the "deuce" combination block developing between Clemson LT Brandon Thomas and LG Kalon Davis is completely neutralizing Ohio State DT Adolphus Washington, sweeping him so far horizontally that he neutralizes fellow DT Michael Bennett (who himself didn't look all that interested in getting involved in the play). Brandon Thomas achieves such vertical push he's able to easily get to the second level and wipe out LB Camren Williams.

As the fly sweep man comes in the linebacker (Joshua Perry) that had been lined up on him unattached takes his sweet time coming back to the inside and then screws up his pursuit by hesitating and taking a poor angle. The back side safety (C.J. Barnett) similarly screws up his cleanup angle. Both of these men were completely unblocked and well within range to tackle Tajh Boyd for a short or perhaps a medium gain. If Perry had done an outstanding job on the play he may have read the lack of threats to get to the outside of him, knifed into the backfield and caught Boyd for perhaps even a loss on the play. If he felt uncomfortable with that he should have gotten Boyd for about a 5 or 6 yard gain. Barnett could have gotten him down at about the same gain if he'd done a good job.

But a lot of people are going to look at Ryan Shazier and see him take on the lead blocker in the hole and say that he didn't get off the block like he should have to make the play on the ball carrier. Bollocks to that. Shazier sealed the outside shoulder of the lead blocker with a hard hit in the hole leaving Boyd to float right through where the defense should've had help to get him down. But the help didn't get there.

And that happened a lot this year on Ohio State's defense. All of the above, constantly. The defense would start out disadvantaged schematically, then the defensive linemen would lose gap control, pursuit players wouldn't get where they were supposed to be, and Ryan Shazier has upwards of one or even two blockers to deal with on the play.

And if people think that was happening at Alabama with their extremely STRONG defensive linemen and well coached scheme, well hey then we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one. Mosley is a good player with good instincts, but he had a free path to the ball a lot. Even when there were blockers out in the second level that could have picked him off they often didn't get out there clean and so he was able to beat them to the spot. And when the blockers did get there the defensive line and pursuit players often squeezed the lane and got the ball down so it never left the viewer with the kind of bad taste in their mouth that they often got when either Ryan Shazier made the play at Ohio State or nobody did.

Finally I will leave you with an example of what happened when Ohio State's defense played a lot better with fewer numbers disadvantages and better defensive line play. This is the Indiana game.

[video=youtube;wASW1LsnAHc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wASW1LsnAHc[/video]

You'll notice a big difference from this game to a lot of the others in the way the defensive linemen were able to hold up, keep their gap control and squeeze the lanes. Even when blockers went out into space on Shazier, they didn't come out clean or with great angles and he was able to beat them.

He had 20 tackles in this game including 5.0 TFLs, 1.0 Sacks, 1 PBU and 1 Forced Fumble. He was a one-man wrecking crew. That's the upside if you actually keep him clean like other linebackers out there.

Great stuff as always. Your break down kicked ass.
 
i never said even one thing about taking on more blockers...not one thing so for me that's irrelevant...

god help us if hickeys not smart enough to realize this guy doesnt have anywhere near the same level instincts or awareness coming out as lavonte david did...god help us...
 
Well Borland is plug and play :bobdole: Dude is gonna get eaten alive by the TEs, he is great agianst the run though, Zach got dragged around the field for 10 years God love em, Borland is way slower than Zach was - c'mon people

Mosley he may be timid to stick his nose in there
 
Zach against some of the modern tight ends would not be a pretty sight lol
 
The graveyards are full of GMs who pick athletes over football players. No thank you.

Those kinds of athletes are usually guys with elite measurables that never put it all together in college and the GMs hope they can coach them up to have production match the athleticism. Shazier already showed the production. 40 TFL, 14 PBU, 12 sacks over the last two seasons... Lavonte David had/has more instincts, but Shazier's athleticism gave him the ability to better his stats and match the top 3 LBs in all these "playmaking" stats in his draft class. He matches what Coyle/Philbin seem to want in the LB corps - speed that can disrupt the passing game. He was a Junior captain and his dad is the team chaplain. Good kid, elite athlete, college production, etc. He's not necessarily my #1 choice, but the fit isn't horrible.
 
Idk where the post about the gm graveyard being full of gms who took athletes over players was but I would comment that if your the one guy that comes away with Jimmy Graham in round 3 then your gm of the decade...and that's why athletes will get picked over and over and over again
 
Well done on the film study and quant research. I enjoy posts like these that really raise the bar.

I don't know who in their right mind would watch the film and come away believing that C.J. Mosley had to deal with more blockers than Ryan Shazier.

Let's keep things at a basic level here. Ohio State had their nickel defense on the field a LOT with only 6 men in the box constantly. Often there were only 5 men in the box. Their defensive coaches (Luke Fickel, nearly fired during the off season) did not do a very good job keeping the front seve- uhh, five-or-six out of bad situations where the offense had more blockers than the defense had to defend. Put that together with some shoddy defensive line play and inconsistent pursuit from other defenders and this was a recipe for Ryan Shazier to be anything but clean to the football.

Don't take my word for it. Here is an example of a play that many people are going to see and say this guy is horrible, he doesn't get off blocks, etc. But they'll generally be missing the details of the game.

The first problem on this play is that Clemson offensive coordinator Chad Morris has created an extremely uncomfortable situation for the defense called and coached by Luke Fickell. Just look at the numbers advantage. The offense has 7 straight up blockers plus an 8th man jetting horizontally. The fly sweep prevents the play side safety from crowding up to the line of scrimmage to help even out the numbers advantage, because he has to respect the fly sweep. This ensures that the numbers advantage will remain, especially since on this play the QB is the ball carrier.

Let's keep in mind what this numbers advantage is. Normally if the QB is the ball carrier and he has 7 blockers against 7 defenders in the box, this is considered a numbers advantage for the offense as there's enough blockers to get a hat on every hat leaving nobody free to the ball carrier. This is even worse than that. This is 7 blockers to 6 defenders.



The second problem on the play is that the "deuce" combination block developing between Clemson LT Brandon Thomas and LG Kalon Davis is completely neutralizing Ohio State DT Adolphus Washington, sweeping him so far horizontally that he neutralizes fellow DT Michael Bennett (who himself didn't look all that interested in getting involved in the play). Brandon Thomas achieves such vertical push he's able to easily get to the second level and wipe out LB Camren Williams.

As the fly sweep man comes in the linebacker (Joshua Perry) that had been lined up on him unattached takes his sweet time coming back to the inside and then screws up his pursuit by hesitating and taking a poor angle. The back side safety (C.J. Barnett) similarly screws up his cleanup angle. Both of these men were completely unblocked and well within range to tackle Tajh Boyd for a short or perhaps a medium gain. If Perry had done an outstanding job on the play he may have read the lack of threats to get to the outside of him, knifed into the backfield and caught Boyd for perhaps even a loss on the play. If he felt uncomfortable with that he should have gotten Boyd for about a 5 or 6 yard gain. Barnett could have gotten him down at about the same gain if he'd done a good job.

But a lot of people are going to look at Ryan Shazier and see him take on the lead blocker in the hole and say that he didn't get off the block like he should have to make the play on the ball carrier. Bollocks to that. Shazier sealed the outside shoulder of the lead blocker with a hard hit in the hole leaving Boyd to float right through where the defense should've had help to get him down. But the help didn't get there.

And that happened a lot this year on Ohio State's defense. All of the above, constantly. The defense would start out disadvantaged schematically, then the defensive linemen would lose gap control, pursuit players wouldn't get where they were supposed to be, and Ryan Shazier has upwards of one or even two blockers to deal with on the play.

And if people think that was happening at Alabama with their extremely STRONG defensive linemen and well coached scheme, well hey then we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one. Mosley is a good player with good instincts, but he had a free path to the ball a lot. Even when there were blockers out in the second level that could have picked him off they often didn't get out there clean and so he was able to beat them to the spot. And when the blockers did get there the defensive line and pursuit players often squeezed the lane and got the ball down so it never left the viewer with the kind of bad taste in their mouth that they often got when either Ryan Shazier made the play at Ohio State or nobody did.

Finally I will leave you with an example of what happened when Ohio State's defense played a lot better with fewer numbers disadvantages and better defensive line play. This is the Indiana game.

You'll notice a big difference from this game to a lot of the others in the way the defensive linemen were able to hold up, keep their gap control and squeeze the lanes. Even when blockers went out into space on Shazier, they didn't come out clean or with great angles and he was able to beat them.

He had 20 tackles in this game including 5.0 TFLs, 1.0 Sacks, 1 PBU and 1 Forced Fumble. He was a one-man wrecking crew. That's the upside if you actually keep him clean like other linebackers out there.

WOW, my vote for :fhpotd:. CK :yourock:

Uhh hooshoops.... :sorry::owned1:
 
Well Borland is plug and play :bobdole: Dude is gonna get eaten alive by the TEs, he is great agianst the run though, Zach got dragged around the field for 10 years God love em, Borland is way slower than Zach was - c'mon people

Mosley he may be timid to stick his nose in there

Actually Borland ran a 4.73 at his pro day while the best ever 40 I can find on Zach is 4.78. It WAS a different time back then with TEs being much slower but Borland is about the same speed as Zach. The part that I find so interesting is everyone is always talking about how slow Borland is at 248 lbs, but he ran very close to the same speed Mosley ran at 234 lbs. I DO know this, I would rather spend a 3rd (if he is still there) on Borland, than a 1st on Mosley. But I would jump for joy if we ended up with Shazier. He is gonna be a beast.
 
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