Hoops Scoops...prospects Miami should target in the 2013 draft first 4 rounds... | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Hoops Scoops...prospects Miami should target in the 2013 draft first 4 rounds...

Still hoping for either Dee Milliner (if he drops or we trade up) or Xavier Rhodes. We've got tools on offense, lets solidify the secondary and keep opponents off the field.
 
NRA said:
AUSTIN, DJ HAYDEN, TRUFANT.

I DONT CARE HOW they get these guys or where just as long as one or two of them become dolphins.

IRELAND [as well as other finz brass] have long made the mistake of not taking PLAY MAKERS high in the draft. we havnt gone anywhere in 20 years because WE CANT PUT POINTS ON THE BOARD!! not because our front end beef didnt open holes 2 more inches. our o-lines have taken a LOT of the blame for miami not having ANY play makers.

and it will be a COLOSSAL mistake if our 1st pic is an OT. we went NOWHERE with long in his prime. why? NO PLAY MAKERS!! NO POINTS!! we have averaged about 17 points a game for YEARS now. i make and exception with WARMACK because this is another OTHER WORDLY talent and will be just as good in ANY scheme. WHY? because he doesnt need the huge athletic moves guys like cooper have. he flat stands up guys at the point with NO budge. they go no where in pass pro. like pouncy, he is in your face in a heart beat and when locked on, ITS OVER!! and he is a better athlete than a lot of guys think. and i believe we could trade down a few spots and still get him IF the finz are thinking o-line.

over all, as much as i LOVE warmack and see a hall of fame guard, PLAYMAKERS is what we need most along with CB'S who can actually play. i dont see any trade up for milliner. TRUFANT is the better all around db and will probably be sitting there at #12. this guy is a much faster SAM MADDISON and will play with us for years to come and give us the big play, take away corner we havnt had since sam.

DJ HAYDEN. one of my top 3 players in this draft. the best all around skills amongst db's in this draft, PERIOD!! i have been singing his praises for a while and would have screamed more but i thought he was done and over in football after that injury. IF he hadnt had the two injuries back to back, we wouldnt even have a shot at him as he would go top 2 in this draft. BUT, the fact he is so good and we have multiple hi picks, he is worth gambling on to move up in the lower 1st [and he could be gone] or take him with our 1st selection in the second round. someone just may take him in the 1st, teams like san fran who are in a position to draft WHOEVER they want!

i dont care for ANY of the pass rushers that hi, the ones who could actually be there at #12. even though we need another to go with wake. we had a GOOD pass rush, top 5 last year and we lost games because WE COULDNT SCORE POINTS!! and WE COULDNT STOP TEAMS in the air [where points come from]. so CB and offensive PLAY MAKER are where we need to stay in the first 3-4 pics in this draft.

JONATHAN MARTIN: is a better LT than a RT. which is odd, but, thats whats on tape. his ONLY problem playing the position last year was strength. and this could EASILY be corrected with the right off season weight room routine. he has the frame to build on, the smarts and the feet to play LT at a hi level, hi enough to get us where we want to go. and i dont think IRELAND is ready to call him a bust after taking him hi [i didnt want him in that spot] and watching him blunder on the rt side. now, if they have decided he cant play LT at the level they want, MORE EGG ON IRELANDS FACE and another reason to give the big bodies a rest for a while hi in the draft. they need to focus on play makers and TRUE corners. PERIOD!! we have found some good pass rushers later in the drafts and in canada so if it comes down to PASS RUSHER, CB or PLAY MAKING WR, we should go with CB or WR. again, we lost most games last year do to NO PLAY MAKERS. could we use some more pass rush? yes, as wake needs a rest from the quadruple zuple attention he gets every play. but, our problems last year were not lack of rush, we had decent sack numbers and hurries and knock downs, we just didnt have CB'S who could cover for ANY length of time!! AND, we had no one in the endzone. leave MARTIN in at lt, draft a true lt prospect later in the draft [not some position change experiment] and let him have his weight program and play this year at LT.

IF WE TRULY are trading up, it better well be for milliner or to make sure we land AUSTIN who could very well not last till #12, no matter what the arm chair crowd thinks. AUSTIN is a wanted man and wont even sniff the bottom of the 1st. the cats out of the bag and to many teams no this isnt another one hit speed wonder you see hocking video games to over grown teenagers in the mall. he is a DOMINANT THREAT at 3 different positions.

this draft is UNDER RATED and outside of AUSTIN, TRUFANT, DJ HAYDEN EIFERT and WARMACK , all guys with dominant game, freakish talent, there are dozens upon dozens of players i would be very happy with in the rounds 3-5. good players. starters. THIS FIRST 3 PICS absolutely have to be HOME RUN HITTERS, BPA's at every pic with our 1st and 2 second rounders. no reach at pass rusher and no tackles or o-line other than warmack. i like cooper, a whole lot. but, he isnt the freekish talent that warmack is, and warmack is a talent on the line you see come around ever other decade or so.

POINT MAKERS AND BALL HAWKS, PERIOD!!!
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IMO Cooper is a better fit in our offense than Warmack. Love your overall philosophy. Hope this is our FO's conviction as well.
 
ikkonz said:
Still hoping for either Dee Milliner (if he drops or we trade up) or Xavier Rhodes. We've got tools on offense, lets solidify the secondary and keep opponents off the field.
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well i figured xavier rhodes name would come up...i see him as more a cover 2 corner although with his speed i won't just label him as that...the problem i have with rhodes is i think he's gonna have some similar problems with balance and not taking false recovery steps and matching feet with smaller quicker wrs that sean smith has...that he's gonna be off balance when guys make cuts and cross his face...that his feet aren't quick twitch enough and given his length that he's gonna be another elite athlete for his size but not for the boundary corner position...

i do however think he has better tools than sean smith but i don't know that they are elite corner tools...

he may well go at pick #12 to us...but i'm not endorsing it...
 
to me if you're gonna draft someone with a top 20 pick you should be playing to his strengths and what you graded him so high in the first place with...not asking him to be something else...i think that's where you can get yourself in trouble...so much projection with a position switch.
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YES, YES and YES!!!!!!

and this is where the finz shot callers have blown it over the years. a PERFECT EXAMPLE is a couple years back when we needed SAFETY help in the worst way. and wouldnt you know it, our pick is up and we have EARL THOMAS, one of the best safety prospects in while is sitting in our lap. a top 5 pic on most boards around the country. a NO BRAINER, right?

we trade WAY down and select ODERICK who still hasnt proved much, not for a 1st round choice, and THOMAS is collecting pro bowls!!!! and the extra pics we got in that trade were no where.

like i said, a NO BRAINER, accept where the dolphins are concerned. and this is where IRELAND cant make the same mistake AGAIN!! we have a couple BLUE CHIP PLAYERS, who are actual NEEDS that could be available at #12, AUSTIN, TRUFANT, EIFERT. the only allowance here is WARMACK who we could trade down a few spots and land. a probable HOF guard. and thats IF the finz are determined to go o-line. i prefer the CB or AUSTIN, but, we do NEED guards and warmack is the best to come around in MANY years.

as long as it is a REAL TALENT, a top player at his position, they could take any of those mentioned players and it would be RIGHT for a change.

SCORE THROUGH THE AIR or STOP THE PASS. our two biggest needs. there are a handful of players who fit that bill who will probably be there at #12.

and i would say that hands down, CB is the biggest need as we have NO ONE good and our f/a choice is a MAJOR injury concern. probably the worst injury you could have as a DB. but........., AUSTIN is an other worldly talent, a guy who dominates at 3 different positions. that doesnt come along all the time. hardly EVER happens. and even though we brought in some wr's who can produce, austin is a whole different animal, a guy who is blinding fast and causes mismatches across the board. this is the ICING ON THE CAKE, THE GUY WHO OPENS IT ALL UP, THE GUY WHO PUTS DEFENSES IN CONSTANT MAN ON MAN WITH NO ROOM TO CHEAT UP OR ROLL COVERAGES. its pitch and catch to wallace, gibson, hartline and austin.

and i dont have to say what this all does for our run game. we have all heard before about "this guy changes it all, no one will be able to cover us now, blah...blah...., etc.... . austin IS that guy, the real deal that makes an offense like ours almost unstopable [see rams with marshall falk]. and in this day and age of pass at all costs, 40 points a game average teams and bare minimum 4,000 yd/49 td qb's, you HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCORE TO KEEP UP!!

this draft, our TOP CHOICE has to be a HOME RUN. no more skipping top talent to land more watered down talent later.
 
NRA said:
AUSTIN, DJ HAYDEN, TRUFANT.

I DONT CARE HOW they get these guys or where just as long as one or two of them become dolphins.

IRELAND [as well as other finz brass] have long made the mistake of not taking PLAY MAKERS high in the draft. we havnt gone anywhere in 20 years because WE CANT PUT POINTS ON THE BOARD!! not because our front end beef didnt open holes 2 more inches. our o-lines have taken a LOT of the blame for miami not having ANY play makers.

and it will be a COLOSSAL mistake if our 1st pic is an OT. we went NOWHERE with long in his prime. why? NO PLAY MAKERS!! NO POINTS!! we have averaged about 17 points a game for YEARS now. i make and exception with WARMACK because this is another OTHER WORDLY talent and will be just as good in ANY scheme. WHY? because he doesnt need the huge athletic moves guys like cooper have. he flat stands up guys at the point with NO budge. they go no where in pass pro. like pouncy, he is in your face in a heart beat and when locked on, ITS OVER!! and he is a better athlete than a lot of guys think. and i believe we could trade down a few spots and still get him IF the finz are thinking o-line.

over all, as much as i LOVE warmack and see a hall of fame guard, PLAYMAKERS is what we need most along with CB'S who can actually play. i dont see any trade up for milliner. TRUFANT is the better all around db and will probably be sitting there at #12. this guy is a much faster SAM MADDISON and will play with us for years to come and give us the big play, take away corner we havnt had since sam.

DJ HAYDEN. one of my top 3 players in this draft. the best all around skills amongst db's in this draft, PERIOD!! i have been singing his praises for a while and would have screamed more but i thought he was done and over in football after that injury. IF he hadnt had the two injuries back to back, we wouldnt even have a shot at him as he would go top 2 in this draft. BUT, the fact he is so good and we have multiple hi picks, he is worth gambling on to move up in the lower 1st [and he could be gone] or take him with our 1st selection in the second round. someone just may take him in the 1st, teams like san fran who are in a position to draft WHOEVER they want!

i dont care for ANY of the pass rushers that hi, the ones who could actually be there at #12. even though we need another to go with wake. we had a GOOD pass rush, top 5 last year and we lost games because WE COULDNT SCORE POINTS!! and WE COULDNT STOP TEAMS in the air [where points come from]. so CB and offensive PLAY MAKER are where we need to stay in the first 3-4 pics in this draft.

JONATHAN MARTIN: is a better LT than a RT. which is odd, but, thats whats on tape. his ONLY problem playing the position last year was strength. and this could EASILY be corrected with the right off season weight room routine. he has the frame to build on, the smarts and the feet to play LT at a hi level, hi enough to get us where we want to go. and i dont think IRELAND is ready to call him a bust after taking him hi [i didnt want him in that spot] and watching him blunder on the rt side. now, if they have decided he cant play LT at the level they want, MORE EGG ON IRELANDS FACE and another reason to give the big bodies a rest for a while hi in the draft. they need to focus on play makers and TRUE corners. PERIOD!! we have found some good pass rushers later in the drafts and in canada so if it comes down to PASS RUSHER, CB or PLAY MAKING WR, we should go with CB or WR. again, we lost most games last year do to NO PLAY MAKERS. could we use some more pass rush? yes, as wake needs a rest from the quadruple zuple attention he gets every play. but, our problems last year were not lack of rush, we had decent sack numbers and hurries and knock downs, we just didnt have CB'S who could cover for ANY length of time!! AND, we had no one in the endzone. leave MARTIN in at lt, draft a true lt prospect later in the draft [not some position change experiment] and let him have his weight program and play this year at LT.

IF WE TRULY are trading up, it better well be for milliner or to make sure we land AUSTIN who could very well not last till #12, no matter what the arm chair crowd thinks. AUSTIN is a wanted man and wont even sniff the bottom of the 1st. the cats out of the bag and to many teams no this isnt another one hit speed wonder you see hocking video games to over grown teenagers in the mall. he is a DOMINANT THREAT at 3 different positions.

this draft is UNDER RATED and outside of AUSTIN, TRUFANT, DJ HAYDEN EIFERT and WARMACK , all guys with dominant game, freakish talent, there are dozens upon dozens of players i would be very happy with in the rounds 3-5. good players. starters. THIS FIRST 3 PICS absolutely have to be HOME RUN HITTERS, BPA's at every pic with our 1st and 2 second rounders. no reach at pass rusher and no tackles or o-line other than warmack. i like cooper, a whole lot. but, he isnt the freekish talent that warmack is, and warmack is a talent on the line you see come around ever other decade or so.

POINT MAKERS AND BALL HAWKS, PERIOD!!!
Click to expand...

Jeff does not have egg on his face by Martin playing RT. He has egg on his grill by having the offense be ineffective because of bad line play.
 
i tell ya what's a bit of a head scratcher for me...i've got 10 wrs in the top 4 rounds of targets that i think can help us most of which way more than brandon gibson projects to and yet he was a priority in free agency...i don't really get that unless the plan was to not look at the draft much at wr...which in this class given the depth is a mistake...

anyways...that doesn't make a lot of sense to me...
 
hooshoops said:
i tell ya what's a bit of a head scratcher for me...i've got 10 wrs in the top 4 rounds of targets that i think can help us most of which way more than brandon gibson projects to and yet he was a priority in free agency...i don't really get that unless the plan was to not look at the draft much at wr...which in this class given the depth is a mistake...

anyways...that doesn't make a lot of sense to me...
Click to expand...

With the depth at wr, do u think ace sanders falls into the 5th or 6th round and do u see good value there if we don't nab Austin at 12?
 
hooshoops said:
i tell ya what's a bit of a head scratcher for me...i've got 10 wrs in the top 4 rounds of targets that i think can help us most of which way more than brandon gibson projects to and yet he was a priority in free agency...i don't really get that unless the plan was to not look at the draft much at wr...which in this class given the depth is a mistake...

anyways...that doesn't make a lot of sense to me...
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Yup. Its why I hated the Brandon Gibson signing, because it might now mean we won't be taking advantage of this deep pool of talented receivers with huge upside coming out. The difference in upside between a Stedman Bailey or Markus Wheaton compared to Brandon Gibson is huge. Its a real head scratcher.
 
hooshoops said:
i tell ya what's a bit of a head scratcher for me...i've got 10 wrs in the top 4 rounds of targets that i think can help us most of which way more than brandon gibson projects to and yet he was a priority in free agency...i don't really get that unless the plan was to not look at the draft much at wr...which in this class given the depth is a mistake...

anyways...that doesn't make a lot of sense to me...
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Interesting point. My thinking is we could draft 2 or at least 1. We draft 2 if our intent is to replace Bess because he becomes a FA next season. We draft 1 if we want to add to our existing group of Wallace, Hartline, Bess, Gibson, Matthews. Or we don't draft any because we think one of our PS receivers will make the group of six WR's.

---------- Post added at 01:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

IMO we still need some more speed in our WR group
 
Harry_Bagpipe said:
With the depth at wr, do u think ace sanders falls into the 5th or 6th round and do u see good value there if we don't nab Austin at 12?
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that's probably where that little jitterbug comes off...as for the value to miami would really depend on whats on the board then...that's the kind of guy you got to have get work to make him worth taking and active on sundays...

just not sure...if they pull a swope and we have thigpen as a returner which we should given how he showed in 2012 where's the touches come from??? if they pass on swope and keep bess i could see the same issue...

hard to say...
 
hooshoops said:
i tell ya what's a bit of a head scratcher for me...i've got 10 wrs in the top 4 rounds of targets that i think can help us most of which way more than brandon gibson projects to and yet he was a priority in free agency...i don't really get that unless the plan was to not look at the draft much at wr...which in this class given the depth is a mistake...

anyways...that doesn't make a lot of sense to me...
Click to expand...

That bothers me as well. My best guess is that Ireland & Co do not want to wait on a receiver to develop. Wideout is historically a position that takes time for a player to get acclimated, plus there is high bust chance to get it wrong. Gibson has already been developing and isn't starting fresh so he is a known quantity without bust factor. After all, Ireland has baggage, having bombed on Pat Turner and Clyde Gates. I am in disagreement on this because there are a number of receivers this year that I think have high floors and hence limited downside risk. I still think Miami will target a slot guy with speed (Austin, Swope, maybe Bailey) to stretch the middle and/or a boundary guy with height (M. Wilson) for the redzone.
 
Austin Tatious said:
That bothers me as well. My best guess is that Ireland & Co do not want to wait on a receiver to develop. Wideout is historically a position that takes time for a player to get acclimated, plus there is high bust chance to get it wrong. Gibson has already been developing and isn't starting fresh so he is a known quantity without bust factor. After all, Ireland has baggage, having bombed on Pat Turner and Clyde Gates. I am in disagreement on this because there are a number of receivers this year that I think have high floors and hence limited downside risk. I still think Miami will target a slot guy with speed (Austin, Swope, maybe Bailey) to stretch the middle and/or a boundary guy with height (M. Wilson) for the redzone.
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not wanting to wait is exactly why i tried to stay away from the wrs that look like you will have to wait on them and may not be able to play in a option route system effectively...i get that...and i get that ireland may not feel like evaluating wrs is a strength if his given his past...but you still don't want to just pass up a class as quality as the position as this one...but there's only so many spots in the wr core and only so many will be active on game day...hartline wallace definite locks gibson likely another...leaves a spot for a slot (bess???) and maybe one other guy who will probably have to help on specials...is matthews in play??? why give up on that already??? a big bodied wr sure would be nice in this group and or a physical rac guy...but wheres the spot come from??? no point using high picks on wrs if you plan on stashing em...

imo odds are one more wr gets added...either a slot or a big body guy...i don't think mathews is being viewed as a non roster guy
 
Nice job Hoops, agree with most and don't with some, but that's what makes the world go around...LOL

I completely agree with you on Carradine. As a Nole, all season I kept telling people he was outplaying Werner but no one wanted to listen. This guy is a beast. What he has over Werner is the quick twitch muscles and an elite first step. I think right now Werner might be a better all around DE, but I think Carradine has the skills to allow him to be elite in the NFL. In my first mock I have Carradine going to Miami at #12 and many think I am crazy but I know if he blows it up on 4/20 at his proday he wont make it out of the top 15.
 
Hoops, I found your Hayden stuff to be very interesting. The first thing I had always seen about him was serious injury risk. Does anyone know the full story on his injury past and future injury risk?
 
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