Kiper says we should have taken Ryan. This guy is crazy!(video)

[Riftur]

Long was a much safer bet period. The phins knew he would come in and start right away. With a QB you never know.

 

[Dr. Phin]

That makes no sense, why would BP not take the better player, if the better player was Matt Ryan? I think the answer is easy, Miami had no interest in Ryan and were willing to draft Henne if he were on the board at 57 and not before. Ohterwise Miami could have taken either Henne or Ryan at some point in the 08 draft before pick 57 and they took neither before 57. The Fact is, Miami wanted Jake Long not Matt Ryan.

Because the didn't know who the better player was at the time....

This is all a "hindsite is 20-20" discussion. Based on what we know now, Ryan would have been the right pick...he is the more valuable player...period. A franchise QB is what Atlanta got, and we missed on. We hope Henne pans out...but so far, Ryan HAS panned out...

 

[Dr. Phin]

So your argument is that OLG's are easy to find or that they are not that important to an offesenses sucess? Your assement that ryan is a better talent does not hold water when you consider where Long is ranked among other players at his postion and where Ryan is ranked among other players at his postion

My argument is that a franchise QB is more important than...well, quite frankly...any other player on the team...period. At this point, as Ryan is looking to be a franchise QB...then he would have been the better pick.

But, don't go too overboard in the argument here. I am not disappointed in Jake at all. At the time, I believe we made the right decision because I was not impressed with Ryan in college...I was wrong.

 

[feelthepain]

Because the didn't know who the better player was at the time....

This is all a "hindsite is 20-20" discussion. Based on what we know now, Ryan would have been the right pick...he is the more valuable player...period. A franchise QB is what Atlanta got, and we missed on. We hope Henne pans out...but so far, Ryan HAS panned out...

Ryan is not better than Long.

 

[Breed]

Ryan is not better than Long.

Unless you use Kiper's line of thinking, that he's better because he's a QB.

 

[feelthepain]

My argument is that a franchise QB is more important than...well, quite frankly...any other player on the team...period. At this point, as Ryan is looking to be a franchise QB...then he would have been the better pick.

But, don't go too overboard in the argument here. I am not disappointed in Jake at all. At the time, I believe we made the right decision because I was not impressed with Ryan in college...I was wrong.

No it's not, there have been a multitude of winning season, playoff contending, SB champion teams without a Franchise QB on the roster. It's every bit as difficult to find a franchise LT as it is to find a franchise QB. You keep trying to make it seem as though Long should take a backseat to Ryan, IMO and from everything you hear from the Dolphins if they could trade Ryan for Long even right now, Miami would keep Long.

You do realize Long was the first number 1 overall pick to make the probowl in decades..right? You also know that even on an 11 win team that made the playoffs, Ryan didn't make the probowl right? I think the Dolphins drafted the better player, position is irrelevant.

 

[GoonBoss]

Unless you use Kiper's line of thinking, that he's better because he's a QB.

QBs are always more valuable than OLTs. Sorry, it's just how it is. IF you can get a franchise QB or a Franchise OLT, you always take the franchise QB. I don't disagree with the Long pick. It's the one I wanted. IT's just that it's not wrong to look back and say we should've taken Ryan. It is what it is. I still dont' think we did the wrong thing, but, Ryan would've been the good, young QB of the future. He's stepped in and played like a champ.

 

[feelthepain]

QBs are always more valuable than OLTs. Sorry, it's just how it is. IF you can get a franchise QB or a Franchise OLT, you always take the franchise QB. I don't disagree with the Long pick. It's the one I wanted. IT's just that it's not wrong to look back and say we should've taken Ryan. It is what it is. I still dont' think we did the wrong thing, but, Ryan would've been the good, young QB of the future. He's stepped in and played like a champ.

Yeah, that's why BP and company took Long over Ryan, cause it's ALWAYS more important.

 

[Breed]

QBs are always more valuable than OLTs. Sorry, it's just how it is. IF you can get a franchise QB or a Franchise OLT, you always take the franchise QB. I don't disagree with the Long pick. It's the one I wanted. IT's just that it's not wrong to look back and say we should've taken Ryan. It is what it is. I still dont' think we did the wrong thing, but, Ryan would've been the good, young QB of the future. He's stepped in and played like a champ.

Here's the bottom line, is Matt Ryan better at his position than Jake Long is at his? If so, is he clearly better?

IMO, Jake Long was one of the top 5 or 6 tackles in the game in '08. Matt Ryan probably fit into the 7-10 range among NFL quarterbacks last year.

Also, would you take Eli Manning or Philip Rivers over either Orlando Pace/Jonathan Ogden in their prime?

 

[GoonBoss]

Yeah, that's why BP and company took Long over Ryan, cause it's ALWAYS more important.

BP and Co took Long because he was as close to a sure thing as there was in the draft. They knew they couldn't afford to miss with the #1 overall pick and, went with the safe pick. I don't think it was a bad choice. As I said; I don't disagree with the pick. I never have and never will.

I do stand corrected...Let's say we had Marino..You don't draft a franchise QB then. People dont' realize who we would've had behind center this past year as a starter....Josh McKown. Do you have the confidence that Josh McKown could've taken us where we went?

I still feel we made the right pick for us, but, looking back, it's also not wrong to argue that Ryan might've been the better pick.

 

[GoonBoss]

Here's the bottom line, is Matt Ryan better at his position than Jake Long is at his? If so, is he clearly better?

IMO, Jake Long was one of the top 5 or 6 tackles in the game in '08. Matt Ryan probably fit into the 7-10 range among NFL quarterbacks last year.

Also, would you take Eli Manning or Philip Rivers over either Orlando Pace/Jonathan Ogden in their prime?

That's not the bottom line. You can't do a positional analysis, because by that logic if we drafted the best FB in the NFL that would've been the best choice. QB is THE most valuable position on the field. That's why even marginal starting pitchers in Baseball get paid more than guys that start every day. QBs value is above and beyond everyone else on the team.

I agree with your analysis. I would put both players in the range you did. But, with that...Ryan had more value as a player.

 

[Breed]

That's not the bottom line. You can't do a positional analysis, because by that logic if we drafted the best FB in the NFL that would've been the best choice. QB is THE most valuable position on the field. That's why even marginal starting pitchers in Baseball get paid more than guys that start every day. QBs value is above and beyond everyone else on the team.

I agree with your analysis. I would put both players in the range you did. But, with that...Ryan had more value as a player.

I'm not talking about FB, as that is one of the least valuable positions on the field. I brought up two comparable positions in terms of overall team value, you can't compare a FB to a LT.

 

[feelthepain]

BP and Co took Long because he was as close to a sure thing as there was in the draft. They knew they couldn't afford to miss with the #1 overall pick and, went with the safe pick. I don't think it was a bad choice. As I said; I don't disagree with the pick. I never have and never will.

I do stand corrected...Let's say we had Marino..You don't draft a franchise QB then. People dont' realize who we would've had behind center this past year as a starter....Josh McKown. Do you have the confidence that Josh McKown could've taken us where we went?

I still feel we made the right pick for us, but, looking back, it's also not wrong to argue that Ryan might've been the better pick.

Well we don't know that do we? Oh sure the guy's who do the broadcasting and analyzing speculated that's why BP and company took Jake Long, but I never saw BP or any Dolphin representitive come out and say we drafted Jake Long because he was the "safe pick". From what I remember Jake Long was their only choice, but they were willing to negotiate with Gholston and C.Long if Jake didn't want to sign before the draft. As for Ryan I don't remember him ever even being considered as a choice coming down the stretch.

I remember hearing Chris Long and Vernon Gholstons names being thrown around, but Ryan was never part of the discussions, that I can remember. It would seem to me Miami was never really interested in drafting a QB till late in the second if at all. I think Miami was willing to not draft a QB till late in the draft if Henne hadn't fallen to the 57th pick. I think Miami would have drafted a LB or DT maybe another Olinemen with their 57th pick if Henne wasn't there.

 

[shula_guy]

The part of this debate that seems to being going unadressed is Henne. If Henne pans out as a franchise QB then in this draft we got our franchise QB and our LT. How can you say they made the wrong pick if this proves to be true? If we would of took Ryan first what OLT would of been on the board at the 32nd spot in that draft? For all anyone know Henne might have a better career then Ryan. At this point it is impossible and just plain silly to try to evaluate our draft and even more ridiclous trying to compare it to another teams draft. It is way to premature to draw a reasonable conclusion. Im almost afraid to bring this name up but wasnt Cutler the 3rd QB to be drafted in his class as well? I think Denver did ok with that pick.

Why not compare Atlanta's second 1st rd choice to our 1st 2nd rd pick too considering we went QB and they went OT. sam Baker has not seen the field yet he may or may not pan out. Say he does not, but Henne does, which teams shoes would you prefer to be in? Lets also not overlook the fact that Atlanta is sitting tight with a solid Oline already in place.

What I find really amusing is that some of you who are arguing that we need more help on the OLine because it is not complete yet and how important it is to get that anchor in place, are the same people who think we missed the best pick in the draft by not taking Ryan. Forgetting Pennington for the moment because at the time of the draft he was not available, how well do you think this team could of been constructed with Matt Ryan under center but no Jake Long protecting him. There wasnt any great OT's available in FA to chase after. There was really only two choices for us @ #1, both were named Long. The only real question was did we want to start fixing the O-Line or the D-Line first. Ryan was not even a blip on our radar and nor should he of been. We fixed our line and frankly if we didnt have the miraclous year we did and Henne wasnt living up to expectations then we would of been in contention to look at QB's in this draft. There are a few decent looking ones coming out this year.

If you insist on making this argument that we should of taken Ryan over long, make it after Henne busts and Ryan is being inducted into the HOF.

 

[GoonBoss]

Well we don't know that do we? Oh sure the guy's who do the broadcasting and analyzing speculated that's why BP and company took Jake Long, but I never saw BP or any Dolphin representitive come out and say we drafted Jake Long because he was the "safe pick". Infact I don't remember Ryan ever even being considered as a choice coming down the stretch.

I remember hearing Chris Long and Vernon Gholstons names being thrown around, but Ryan was never part of the discussions, that I can remember. It would seem to me Miami was never really interested in drafting a QB till late in the second if at all. I think Miami was willing to not draft a QB till late in the draft if Henne hadn't fallen to the 57th pick. I think Miami would have drafted a LB or DT maybe another Olinemen with their 57th pick if Henne wasn't there.

Well, sure. That is my speculation. I thought people would get that, but, for those that don't;

Everything I post on this board is my specualtion. I am not Bill Parcells, nor Jeff Ireland, and, not Coach Sparano. I am not an employee of the Miami Dolphins, nor a relative of one. Everything I post is my opinion with no basis other than what I can glean from all availiable sources.

As you quite rightly point out, Ryan was never in the discussion, AFAIK. I don't think Ryan was on TunaCo's radar. As it turns out, that may or may not've been a good thing. I have not said that I disagree with the Long pick, but, I also see the otherside of the coin haveing merit.