Knowing what you knownow, Matt Ryan or Jake Long?

[Zounds]

I dont agree that Cutler had a better season than him
Matt Ryan had an alltime great rookie season for a QB.
And to act like he was not a huge reason for thier turn around is ludicris.
Atlanta was every bit as hopeless as Miami was as a franchise the previous season.

Atlanta definitely had more talent on the roster than Miami did at the time of the draft last year. He wasn't a top 10 QB last year, and its naive to project him as one in 2009.

 

[Fish-Head]

It is such a difficult question when both franchises got PRECISELY what they were looking for.

Miami COULD NOT AFFORD TO MISS on talent last year. we were simply not deep enough... they HAD to go with the 'can't miss prospect' of the draft which was Jake LOng... There was no option. We were in no position to gamble.

Atlanta on the other hand needed something, ANYTHING to wash away the taint of the Michael Vick era. Matt Ryan who was a clean cut home baked slice of apple pie was the PERFECT selection for them. His image alone was enough to make that selection make sense!

Oddly enough I think that Chad Pennington is the thing that makes this question even remotely valid... without him we don't have the turnaround and no one is even looking at Jake Long... Jake made Chad look GOOD and vice versa... Chad's great season really makes Jake's statistics POP...but without our miracle turnaround Matty ice is the walk away STEAL of the draft hands down.

Even still I do think the golden rule will always apply... You can't pass on franchise talent at QB and if we are judging him by one season (yes it is a little ridiculous) but Matt Ryan looks like he has the pedigree.

Having said it, I don't have a single regret with Jake and could not be happier with our selection.

 

[ZachThomas76]

I'd still take Jake Long. IMO, if you surround any QB with enough talent, he can win you games. Matt Ryan is a solid QB, but far from spectacular. That team would've had similar success with Chris Redman at QB, frankly. I'm confident that, with our solid OL, good RBs, and deep corps of WRs with complementary talents, Chad Henne will be a competent starter. If he's Marino II, then Hooray.

Thanks for the laugh. Chris Redman. lol.

 

[Zounds]

Thanks for the laugh. Chris Redman. lol.

He's right. Chris Redman was pretty successful leading the Atlanta offense before Matt Ryan arrived, and nothing to laugh at. Atlanta did have a talented roster prior to drafting Ryan.

 

[ZachThomas76]

He's right. Chris Redman was pretty successful leading the Atlanta offense before Matt Ryan arrived, and nothing to laugh at. Atlanta did have a talented roster prior to drafting Ryan.

If you think the Falcons win as many games with Redman as Ryan, then youre way off. Matt Ryan is more valuable than just what stats show. Leadership, poise, not to mention same late game heroics to get wins.

 

[Zounds]

I'm not saying Redman is better, but he was successful without Michael Turner, and had horrible coaches. My point was Atlanta had a talented roster, and all they needed to do was plug in a QB and get a new coaching staff.

 

[ZachThomas76]

I'm not saying Redman is better, but he was successful without Michael Turner, and had horrible coaches. My point was Atlanta had a talented roster, and all they needed to do was plug in a QB and get a new coaching staff.

We can agree to disagree. I dont think Chris Redman has had much success, and theres a reason hes a career backup. I also dont agree all the Falcons had to do was get a qb and coaching staff. There were many more holes than that on that team, and they just plugged one this offseason when they got Tony Gonzalez. They also drafted a talented DT, which they didnt have last year. That team is far from a finished product. IMO.

 

[tay0365]

Big differance in all the guys u mention is that they were not rookies. Its not uncommon for a OL to come in and play well year one its very rare for a rookie qb to come in take the starting job and play well from the beginning.

Yes they were not Rookies, but they all had a year or more to learn the position, you can ask any football person what they would rather do, send their Rookie out there from day 1, or allow them to learn the position for at least a few month, even if this Rookie will be the rare exception of succeeding from day 1. Like you said the QB position is a very tough one to learn, you need to learn new offenses, you are called upon to be the leader and make decisions at a moments notice, you hjave to depend on most every player on your offense for you to succeed. The Falcons did not throw him out there and overload him with too much, their plan was run when possible, and throw high % passes, and when there, take a shot deep. Ryan did a great job, but he did not try to force many passes, or make that many difficult passes....At least of what I saw of him each week (I normally go to a sports bar, and able to watch most games....when not watching the Dolphins game).

Those QB had good to better then good seasons, looked like they could become Franchise QBs, then the following year regressed, why? Because the QB position can not be evaluted in 1 year, if you see a QB look good for 2 or 3 years in a row, you know you have a player, but a player that has only 1 good year (Even his rookie year) can not thought of as a franchise QB until he proves year 1 was the norm for him, especially when that Rookie player did not have a great College career untill his final year, and then had a great year for a Rookie, but only good for an NFL QB.

The qb position is not full of guys that played to the level of Ryan in fact it was among the top 5 rookie qb seasons of all time. I mean seriously can anybody name 5 rookie qb's that had a season close to what Ryan did or better. Okay u got Ben Roth and Dan Marino, anybody else?

No, he had a great Rookie year, there is no doubt, and I am not knocking that, but the question here is who would you take if you had a chance to take either again with what you know now of both players, I still would take Long. And you help me answer why with that list on the bottom of LT.

Okay LT

Richmond Webb
Orlando PAce
Chris samuels
Johnathon Ogden LG as rookie
Marcus Mcneil
Ryan Clady
Joe Thomas
Jammal Brown RT as rookie now LT
Matt Light
Walter Jones
Tony Boselli
Tra Thomas
Michael Roos RT as rookie
Willie Amderson was LT as rookie

Miami had the overall #1 position, with LTs once they start and prove to be really good, you know that you have a top LT because rarely do they regress, with the QB position, a QB once they start might have a good season, but as I showed you with the list of QBs, it does not mean that he will be consistant the following year, and just because this is a bit different, because he did it as a rookie, also understand, very few Rookie QBs have been allowed to start from day one, eventually there will be a rookie QB that will fail after looking good year 1, because it's that type of position, very tough to learn on the job.

 

[tay0365]

As a rookie as much as I love Marino its a fair comparism. Marino had a team around him that had just been in the superbowl.

Did Marino have the type of RB Ryan had? No

A RB is important, because it take most of trhe pressure from that Rookie QB.

Did Marino have receivers with the skill and expierience Ryan had? No

Miami had very young inexpierienced Receivers that like their QB had to learn on the job.

Did Marino have the Advantage of playing a weak schedule, and being on a team considered weak. No

Miami played a very tough schedule, and no team took Miami for granted that year, in fact, every team wanted to beat them among most of the games on their scchedule.

Marino in taking over a superbowl team that made it on purely their defense, and much less on their offense had a very tough job, and there really is no comparison. Ryan did something rarely done in the NFL, but no way can he be compared to Marino yet.

 

[finintheburgh]

1. Ryan is not Marino.
2. The selection of Long extended beyond the LT position. As has been noted, it allowed Carey to move to RT, where he's about as good as RT's get.
3. What's more important, a dominant O-line or a great QB? Assuming that Ryan = Marino (he doesn't), how many SB's did Dallas win with a dominant O-line and how many did Marino win - just being a great QB?

dallas won those sbs with a HOf qb under center.

last year pitt won the sb with a bad oline.

while a Lt makes the qb better and the running back better its the qb who can make everone better

 

[CW_McGraw]

last year pitt won the sb with a bad oline.

Pittsburgh had one of the greatest defenses of all time and easily the most clutch QB since John Elway. Those two factors balance out the weakness of their OL.

 

[ZachThomas76]

Did Marino have the type of RB Ryan had? No

A RB is important, because it take most of trhe pressure from that Rookie QB.

Did Marino have receivers with the skill and expierience Ryan had? No

Miami had very young inexpierienced Receivers that like their QB had to learn on the job.

Did Marino have the Advantage of playing a weak schedule, and being on a team considered weak. No

Miami played a very tough schedule, and no team took Miami for granted that year, in fact, every team wanted to beat them among most of the games on their scchedule.

Marino in taking over a superbowl team that made it on purely their defense, and much less on their offense had a very tough job, and there really is no comparison. Ryan did something rarely done in the NFL, but no way can he be compared to Marino yet.

Who are these Atlanta Falcon wr's with "skill and experience" as you put it? Ill give you Roddy White. The only thing Michael Jenkins has experience at is sucking. Laurent Robinson? They had no receiving threat at TE last year. That wr core is nowhere near as good as you make it sound.

 

[MexDolfan]

I'd still take Jake Long. IMO, if you surround any QB with enough talent, he can win you games. Matt Ryan is a solid QB, but far from spectacular. That team would've had similar success with Chris Redman at QB, frankly. I'm confident that, with our solid OL, good RBs, and deep corps of WRs with complementary talents, Chad Henne will be a competent starter. If he's Marino II, then Hooray.

I hate being rude on points of views, but this time you deserve it.
CW, one thing is to be a die hard fan and another is to be a clueless poster.

I disagree with you about Atlanta's QB, as I think Matt Ryan has been spectacular. I mean he has one single season on his resumè, but make things that nobody on our roster did for almost a decade. He's launching rocket passes and being pretty accurate. Of course he was surrounded with excellent players with a very simplistic playbook, something that may lead into failure this season, but the guy is ranked pretty high.

Now on the other side, this is a Matt Ryan versus Jake Long thread, and I feel it's unfair to compare their rookie perfomance as today, mostly because unlike us, Atlanta was one player (QB) away of being competitive. In fact, our O-line is still working to be as strong as needed. So, having in mind that most offensive line corps mature in a 3 season gap, it's unknown how productive Jake Long can be.

And as this thread entitles, knowing what I know now, I feel safe with both Chads, so avoiding the die hard fan approach, as today, the sexy pick is Matt Ryan, while the saffer is Jake Long.op:

 

[CW_McGraw]

I stand by my point that Matt Ryan was not spectacular. When you have to preface how good his was with "for a rookie QB," then he was not spectacular. Spectacular is starting in the Pro Bowl, leading the league in passer rating, and throwing more than 20 TDs in a little more than half a season. Spectacular is being easily a top 5 QB after a single season. Matt Ryan, by my definition, was not spectacular. He was spectacular...for a rookie QB. Compared to the rest of the NFL, Matt Ryan was just solid. After next season, I am 99% sure that Ryan will be spectacular.

Spectacular, spectacular, spectacular, spectacular, spectacular, spectacular, spectacular, spectacular, spectacular, spectacular, spectacular, spectacular, spectacular.

 

[dlockz]

Atlanta definitely had more talent on the roster than Miami did at the time of the draft last year. He wasn't a top 10 QB last year, and its naive to project him as one in 2009.

and why is it naive to project a player to be that good. can u name more than a couple of rookie qb;s that have had a rookie season that good while u can make a list of lt's that have excelled as rookies. funny how non dolphin players are never that good .