dlockz
Hall Of Famer
Well I think Marino would have been fine because he had quite a knack for avoiding the rush. Thats also what you have to like about Ryan because he had far from a franchise LT last year although I think Baker will be fine.
Knowing what you knownow, Matt Ryan or Jake Long?
- Thread starter Sherif
- Start date
Well I think Marino would have been fine because he had quite a knack for avoiding the rush. Thats also what you have to like about Ryan because he had far from a franchise LT last year although I think Baker will be fine.
MY logic is that at his position, in his 1st year, by years end, Long was playing as well as the Top LTs in this league. Ryan on the other hand was playing extremely well for a Rookie QB, but pretty average for an NFL QB. I know that QB is a tougher positon to learn, but it's not Longs fault he dominated at his position more then Ryan.
Also, you are right that rarely does a Rookie QB succeed from the start like Ryan did, but do not forget that QB is the position that many QBs after having a good year, have fallen on their face....
Patrick Ramsey, Tony Eason, Elvis Grbac, Derek Anderson, Chris Simms
These are guys that had the luxury of sitting at least 1 year, came in looked very good to great, and then fell on thier face.
Not to mention guys like Matt Cassel and Shaun Hill who I don't think will be as good in 09, even though one of them looked as good, and the other looked better then Ryan in 08.
Look, I know that you and a few others were talking up Matt Ryan like crazy before the draft, and kudos to you guys, you seem to have been right, he does look good, but like you said, QB is the toughest position to learn, and be consistant in. Most LT that proved to be the good, continued to be as good or better, the QB position is much different, and with that I say again...
With what I know now, I would still take Long....after next year that may change, but for now Ryan did not have as good a season as Jake, and he still needs to prove he is good, 1 year does not a franchise QB make. Sorry
Exactly, and for that reason, I wold take Jake again. Both play almost equally important position (QB is more important), one did his job almost as well as the best at his position, the other looked great for a rookie.
Ryan Had a great RB that took alot of the pressure off him, Receiver that were getting open, and beating the coverage, Jake was helped b Smiley, until he went down, and Jake had to rely on himself....Until then 09, and Ryan proves he can have an even better season, I will take Jake.
Please tell me you are not comparing Ryan to Marino. :D
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
Big differance in all the guys u mention is that they were not rookies. Its not uncommon for a OL to come in and play well year one its very rare for a rookie qb to come in take the starting job and play well from the beginning.
The qb position is not full of guys that played to the level of Ryan in fact it was among the top 5 rookie qb seasons of all time. I mean seriously can anybody name 5 rookie qb's that had a season close to what Ryan did or better. Okay u got Ben Roth and Dan Marino, anybody else?
Okay LT
Richmond Webb
Orlando PAce
Chris samuels
Johnathon Ogden LG as rookie
Marcus Mcneil
Ryan Clady
Joe Thomas
Jammal Brown RT as rookie now LT
Matt Light
Walter Jones
Tony Boselli
Tra Thomas
Michael Roos RT as rookie
Willie Amderson was LT as rookie
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
As a rookie as much as I love Marino its a fair comparism. Marino had a team around him that had just been in the superbowl.
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
CW_McGraw
Scout Team
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If you think Matt Ryan is already one of the best QB seasons after one season, you're irrational and can't be reasoned with. Matt Ryan had a good season...for a rookie QB. You're crowning Matt Ryan the Chosen One for one good pass, but ignore how he struggled down the stretch and in the playoffs and was not the focal point of that offense. He has, IMO, the second best RB in the NFL in Michael Turner, an arguably top 10 WR in Roddy White. People overrate how hopeless Atlanta's situation was. Matt Ryan did not carry that team. His excellent game management contributed greatly to his team, but Michael Turner is the future of that franchise.
I can see Matt Ryan becoming a Troy Aikman kind of QB: a good QB that benefits from his strong running game and excellent supporting cast. Troy Aikman's a Hall of Famer, but he's certainly not in my top 10 all time QBs.
The following QBs had better seasons than Matt Ryan, IMO:
Chad Pennington
Kurt Warner
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Big Ben
Donovan McNabb
Jay Cutler
Phillip Rivers
Drew Brees
Tony Romo
Aaron Rodgers
I'd still say that Brady and Carson Palmer are better than him, so he cracks my top 15.
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
I dont agree that Cutler had a better season than him
Matt Ryan had an alltime great rookie season for a QB.
And to act like he was not a huge reason for thier turn around is ludicris.
Atlanta was every bit as hopeless as Miami was as a franchise the previous season.
yeah, Ogden was decent :-)
dolfan19
Starter
I think it depends how you perceive the question, and how you relate it to the Fins. In the majority of cases, you would have to argue that QB is the most valuable commodity on any football team. He's the leader, the decision maker. He's the cog that makes the offense run. And for a team like Atlanta, that is exactly what they needed. They had a rookie HC, a first-year starter, and west coast transplant at RB, and no real palapable leader on the team. They needed someone who could come in, take the leadership reigns, and start building the team around him. They also had a little publicity problem in the form of Mike Vick, and had to do something to put that out of fans' minds. Thus, Ryan was the right pick for them.
Miami, on the other hand, already had proven leadership, although in a different form. Everyone knew from the day he was hired, that Parcells would put his stamp on this team, and that it would run a certain way. When the coaching staff and Ireland came aboard, they assessed what THEY needed. Essentially, it was toughness, ruggedness. We had a proven RB - assuming Brown came back fully from surgery - and obviously, they felt he would. We had NO IDEA that Penny would become available, so with the QB's on the roster (remember, the jury was still out on previous 2nd round pick, Beck), it was possible that we had a future starter on board. Throw in the fact that they obviously were high on Henne, and Long becomes the more clear-cut choice for Miami.
Mostly it depends on the philosophy of your team. We are trying to develop a tougher persona - a run-first, beat-them-into-submission type of team, on both offense and defense. Had we picked Ryan, we are so much farther behind schedule than we would be now. Long has injected real toughness into this team, and now with Grove, we continue that trend. In 10 years, maybe Ryan becomes the next Brady, Montana, or Manning. Maybe it's a no-brainer that Ryan had a more stellar career. Maybe Long makes 5 Pro Bowls, Ryan makes 7. QB's will always get the publicity, so the media will always say he was the better choice, even if they have equal careers, position-wise.
My opinion - Long was the right choice. For THIS team, during THIS time. And who knows, maybe we'll get to see this discussion played out in Miami at the end of the year...?
Miami, on the other hand, already had proven leadership, although in a different form. Everyone knew from the day he was hired, that Parcells would put his stamp on this team, and that it would run a certain way. When the coaching staff and Ireland came aboard, they assessed what THEY needed. Essentially, it was toughness, ruggedness. We had a proven RB - assuming Brown came back fully from surgery - and obviously, they felt he would. We had NO IDEA that Penny would become available, so with the QB's on the roster (remember, the jury was still out on previous 2nd round pick, Beck), it was possible that we had a future starter on board. Throw in the fact that they obviously were high on Henne, and Long becomes the more clear-cut choice for Miami.
Mostly it depends on the philosophy of your team. We are trying to develop a tougher persona - a run-first, beat-them-into-submission type of team, on both offense and defense. Had we picked Ryan, we are so much farther behind schedule than we would be now. Long has injected real toughness into this team, and now with Grove, we continue that trend. In 10 years, maybe Ryan becomes the next Brady, Montana, or Manning. Maybe it's a no-brainer that Ryan had a more stellar career. Maybe Long makes 5 Pro Bowls, Ryan makes 7. QB's will always get the publicity, so the media will always say he was the better choice, even if they have equal careers, position-wise.
My opinion - Long was the right choice. For THIS team, during THIS time. And who knows, maybe we'll get to see this discussion played out in Miami at the end of the year...?
BLITZKRIEG
~LACUNA LEGIONS~
I was one of very few members here who wanted to draft QB Matt Ryan at #1 overall. Still, I wasn't against drafting LT J. Long either, we needed help bigtime in the trenches, and he's certainly proven to be worth the selection....
Both players have improved their respective teams, and that's all that really matters heading into the future. I think we made the right choice with Long, and if I could go back and change it, I likely wouldn't...
~BK~
Both players have improved their respective teams, and that's all that really matters heading into the future. I think we made the right choice with Long, and if I could go back and change it, I likely wouldn't...
~BK~
OhioFinatic
Rookie
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Long. Because I want it that way.
I'll take Jake Long by a mile. Ryan wouldn't have been a starter for us untill 2011 anyway. He was solid in his first year, but to the person who said he might have had the best rookie season for a QB ever - you are just crazy.