MERGED:Shedding some light on Brees - Culpepper\Brees failed physical

[nyjunc]

1. Moss is not entirely or even primarily responsible for Culpepper's success. Look at Daunte's stats without him.

he had a couple of good games against bad Defenses in Moss' absence in '04 and other than '04 Moss never missed any games and this year in the 7 games Moss wasn't there for daunte was atrocious. Remember Moss made Randall Cunningham an MVP, made Jeff george somewhat of a success and made Daunte.

2. If you think Daunte is stupid or doesn't read defenses you are sadly mistaken... and falling victim to either a generalization or a stereotype. He is one of the most accurate quarterbacks in NFL history.... and not in a dinking offense.... you do not achieve that without being very good at reading defenses.

Most of his success has come w/ throwing the ball up for Moss, he has averaged 14 INTs a year and had 12 in 6 full games this year w/o Moss. Imagine what it would have been had he not gotten hurt. He was on pace for 32 INTs.

 

[oldfinfan]

he had a couple of good games against bad Defenses in Moss' absence in '04 and other than '04 Moss never missed any games and this year in the 7 games Moss wasn't there for daunte was atrocious. Remember Moss made Randall Cunningham an MVP, made Jeff george somewhat of a success and made Daunte.



Most of his success has come w/ throwing the ball up for Moss, he has averaged 14 INTs a year and had 12 in 6 full games this year w/o Moss. Imagine what it would have been had he not gotten hurt. He was on pace for 32 INTs.

wow...what a way of forecasting stats...the reverse must then be true. 0 interceptions in the first 4 games translates into 0 for the year ?

his success came from a good system and a damn good receiver (I'll give you that much)...to extrapolate from that that he will not be successful with any other receiver or with any other team is idiotic.

we have a good system (prove enough in that Frerotte was fairly successful playing in it) and some fairly decent receivers.

now, there is something to predict on...Pep will do we well.

 

[miamirick]

Maybe I just haven't come across it...but where does all this "New Orleans is pissed" talk coming from? Can someone shoot me a link to this story or stories?

 

[nopony]

he had a couple of good games against bad Defenses in Moss' absence in '04 and other than '04 Moss never missed any games and this year in the 7 games Moss wasn't there for daunte was atrocious. Remember Moss made Randall Cunningham an MVP, made Jeff george somewhat of a success and made Daunte.



Most of his success has come w/ throwing the ball up for Moss, he has averaged 14 INTs a year and had 12 in 6 full games this year w/o Moss. Imagine what it would have been had he not gotten hurt. He was on pace for 32 INTs.

Yeah, wrong.

In 2004, the only year where he had time really, with and without Moss, so the only year reasonable to judge by... (there were many more changes than Moss leaving for 2005, some far more signifigant)

Do you know how many catches Moss had in 2004? 49. For 767 yards.

So let's see, Culpepper had 379 completions for 4717 yards.

So how do you get from that that Daunte's success was MOSTLY Moss??? Just bad at math or are you seeing what you want to see, as opposed to the truth?

:shakeno:

 

[rasta1966]

Shouldnt other factors be brought up regarding Dante's struggles last year. such as no Scott Linehan, his center going down, the offensive line coach now doing cooridinator duties, no reliable running game. Bennet was hurt I believe and the "Wizanator" running back being suspended. New crop of WR trying to get to know them and how they work with his style. They did have sucess later granted but it takes time for new offenses to gel and it maybe that Brad Johnsons abilities suited the new personnel and coordinators desires better. Plus I am sure Brad goes in with a nothing to loose attitude alot more relaxed then Dante at the time. But the failure down the stretch sounds all too familar with Viking and Tice's MO

In regards to NO they took us for the RICKY deal anyway. The got 2 1st rnd pics at least one 3rd and possibly something else dont remember. I like Ricky and am glad he is here but the most they should have received was that initial 1 and 3rd rnd pick. So if their medical staff couldnt evaluate Brees correctly and set a price they could live with then that is their tough luck. I think Brees is an excellant QB when healthy either they suck it up and wait until then or they just wasted $ for nothing. Either way that is their problem

 

[Dolphin$]

You don't throw w/ your knee but you do need your legs to throw. Both are damaged goods at this point, Miami made the right call if they were scared by Bree's shoulder but you can't act like daunte is 100% ok and that his injury will not affect him.

Yeah but the fact that we got culpepper for less money a good enough reason

 

[Saint Mike]

Where is this "Saints are mad" stuff coming from? No one is mad about anything. The Saints are happy to have Brees just as the Dolphins are happy to have Culpepper. And by the way, of course the Saints had Brees checked out by their own medical staff. You think they were relying on Miami for that info? Gimme a break.

 

[Disnardo]

I'd be absolutely pissed if I was the Saints, they paid full price without knowing he failed our physical. That's gotta be the reason for all this buyers remorse

Sorry if it was posted already, did not read the whole thread...

But NO nor their fans should be mad at Saban. Did NO perform a physical on Drew before they offered him the contract like Miami did? :confused: :confused:

You would have to think that NO should have, and if they did not, it goes to prove that their FO personnel lack knowledge of the business side of football...:shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno:

 

[CpuFan]

I seem to remember that several years ago The Saints and their GM, currently Miami's now was crowing about how they hoodwinked got over on Miami in the Ricky trade. SO as far as I am concerned, what goes around comes around.

 

[Eshlemon]

he had a couple of good games against bad Defenses in Moss' absence in '04 and other than '04 Moss never missed any games and this year in the 7 games Moss wasn't there for daunte was atrocious. Remember Moss made Randall Cunningham an MVP, made Jeff george somewhat of a success and made Daunte.



Most of his success has come w/ throwing the ball up for Moss, he has averaged 14 INTs a year and had 12 in 6 full games this year w/o Moss. Imagine what it would have been had he not gotten hurt. He was on pace for 32 INTs.

Which would be a big improvement over Miami's 19 INTs/year the last five years in a mostly conservative offense. Brett Favre averages 18 INTs (14 years, 253 INTs) per year in GB. Even if you add in DC's 33 fumbles lost making 20 turnovers per year, Favre is still ahead with his 60 fumlbes lost making 22 turnovers a year. DC isn't hall of famer Favre, but throwing out numbers can be decieving when not taking the types of offenses run into consideration.

And Duante was also on pace to be sacked 79 times with the team rushing for 1341 yards, 376 yds from Duante. The team was still trying to run the same offense in 2005 as in 2004. Without Moss, probowl C Birk, retired RG Dixon, and with RT Rosenthal, C Winthrow, OGs (Liewenski & Goldberg) all struggling badly. Only consistent player all year on the offensive line was the usually inconsistent LT McKinnie. QB Brad Johson can't do the things DC can and the offense was scaled back out of neccesity with excellent results. Which the coaching staff should have done after the first 2 games.

 

[Disnardo]

he had a couple of good games against bad Defenses in Moss' absence in '04 and other than '04 Moss never missed any games and this year in the 7 games Moss wasn't there for daunte was atrocious. Remember Moss made Randall Cunningham an MVP, made Jeff george somewhat of a success and made Daunte.

You say Daunte was atrocious :confused: ...YOUR ARE WRONG...

His first 2 games were really bad games this past year...Take those away and he had a 65% completion ratio, a 7.5 YPA, 6 TDs, 4 INTs, a QBR of 90.41% (not the typical high 90's or 100's he has had the last few years)...

Edit- Another QB by the name of Pennington had a 91 QBR in 2004, by your analysis he was atrocious also...

 

[VanDolPhan]

(there were many more changes than Moss leaving for 2005, some far more signifigant)

Yup. Moss gone and replaced by a slumping Nate Burleson, Travis Taylor who should be a #3 that always ends up playing in the #1/2 for some reason, a rookie 1st round draft pick that never made any noise. An OC who was an OL coach the year before and they didn't replace the OL coach so he coached both OC and OL at the same time in his first year. Then there was the disintegration of their OL. Rookies and 2nd years played a lot across the line for Minny.

It was also only the first 2 games and 1 game later that were absolutely dreadful. 3 of the games he had a 93 rating or higher including a 123.1 and a 140.

Hell Miami's highest QB rating for last year was 66.7. Yes that's right 66.7. Don't fool yourselves into thinking Culpepper isn't much of an upgrade. Even a struggling Culpepper is an upgrade to what the phins have had recently. Now he has better coaching around him.

 

[Bigbucks24]

Wow, so that's why the Saints are mad, Saban didn't share the medical exam with them. HAHA, that's kinda of dirty to them, but kinda of cool to Condon, so you can love or hate Saban depending on your position. Maybe Saban would rather have an agent 'owe him one'?

Why should we share our medical reports with other teams (aka our competition)? If they are pissed that we knew info and didn't share, maybe they should have done a more thorough exam themselves. We have no smarter Dr. or had more access to Drew than they did. If this is because they were uninformed, then it is their fault.

If this is that we didn't tell them we were out of the running for Drew, why don't all teams just tell who they are going to draft so the other teams could know who they were going to get? We have no obligation to tell them we bailes so that they could low ball Drew.

If in fact they are angry with us, it sounds pretty silly.

 

[footballer]

good inside skinny....

i prefered daunte anyway.

 

[Mainge]

Wow, so that's why the Saints are mad, Saban didn't share the medical exam with them. HAHA, that's kinda of dirty to them, but kinda of cool to Condon, so you can love or hate Saban depending on your position. Maybe Saban would rather have an agent 'owe him one'?

No, what Saban did was 100% correct. He kept it quiet so he wouldn't damage Brees' reputation.

At the same time, New Orleans would be absolutely stupid not to give Brees there own physical assesment.