Merged: The John Beck Value Thread

[feelthepain]

I give up on trying to even reason with you on the very debate at hand. You have constantly replied with comments that have nothing to do with the conversation. Can anyone else tell me why trading for Beck is a better option than signing Kyle boller to be your backup, an intelligent answer that has nothing to do with whatever FTP is still talking about. I must say its been exausting trying to even get him to examine the true issue we are discussing. Label me what you may, I have constantly asked for genuine input on the matter at hand and you keep going back to Beck not being given a chance. None of that has anything to do with his damn trade value. Jim Drukimiller was never given a chance in San francisco and was a first round pick and he had very little trade value. What the hell makes Beck such a hot commodity.

Also for those 8 people that think beck can garner a first round pick, I would love you input on how this immaculate trade would happen. This would genuinely be the greatest value increase I have ever seen. I take it from the pure silence on this that people are just putting that for the hell of it because nobody can offer any true logic behind that opinion.

I would just be happy if you didn't have to make another thread or post talking about Beck, your opinion is extrremely bias.

 

[DJRoss]

The reason Beck has not gotten a legitimate shot...

What I dont understand is why people think he did not get a legitimate shot at a dolphin. Dont you think if he was impressive in the offseason and in preseason that he would be ahead of Henne. The NFL is full of qb's even first rounders that got 4 games or less to prove themselves. Did Guy Benjamin ever get a chance to prove himself, if Marino never got hurt would Mitchell have ever got a chance. Did Sage rosenfels ever get a chance here. I mean he started two whole games.

I still dont see how teams having question marks at qb increases the value of our third string qb that only threw the ball 11 times in preseason.

better options to trade for
Derek Anderson
matt Cassel
brian Griese
Troy Smith
Matt Leinhart
chris Redman
Senca Wallace
Patrick Ramsey
Sage rosefels
Damon Huard
Brodie Croyle
billy Volek
jeff garcia
Chris simms

Better options to sign as free agents
Rex Grossman
byron Leftwich
JP Losman
Charlie Frye
Kyle Boller
Kerry Collins


Hell you could say trading for Alex Smith is a better option since he has been a starter for a whole season and was the number one pick in the draft and he is only 24 years old.

I dont see any of this helping his value.

Could be tied to team chemistry. I was introduced to an individual who actually spends time at practices, press conferences, venues, games, promotional activities. This individual works for the press. His insight to the Beck issue was interesting. He stated that there was a clear lack of support by many of the players. In that climate it is not uncommon for players to get political. If they think their bread is buttered going all out for player X who was drafted, than that is where they shine. Beck was the ugly duckling left on the frozen pond of the previous coaching staff. The early results in practice seemed to favor Henne and even McCown. However when CP arrived with the clear roll as the starter, suddenly it was about making the starting squad and Beck's performances were night and day. He out performed both McCown and Henne at times going into the preseason. McCown got his pink slip and Henne was given the backup spot while Beck was put on the backburner to come in if needed.

So to be fair, if the chemistry had Beck on the outside looking in at the start of camp the case could be made that Beck has not had a legitimate chance. It is one thing to have the support of the team and lose it because you leave them hanging during game time. It is another altogether when you become the nerd in the locker room because the cool guys have arrived and nobody wants to be associated with you.

 

[feelthepain]

Could be tied to team chemistry. I was introduced to an individual who actually spends time at practices, press conferences, venues, games, promotional activities. This individual works for the press. His insight to the Beck issue was interesting. He stated that there was a clear lack of support by many of the players. In that climate it is not uncommon for players to get political. If they think their bread is buttered going all out for player X who was drafted, than that is where they shine. Beck was the ugly duckling left on the frozen pond of the previous coaching staff. The early results in practice seemed to favor Henne and even McCown. However when CP arrived with the clear roll as the starter, suddenly it was about making the starting squad and Beck's performances were night and day. He out performed both McCown and Henne at times going into the preseason. McCown got his pink slip and Henne was given the backup spot while Beck was put on the backburner to come in if needed.

So to be fair, if the chemistry had Beck on the outside looking in at the start of camp the case could be made that Beck has not had a legitimate chance. It is one thing to have the support of the team and lose it because you leave them hanging during game time. It is another altogether when you become the nerd in the locker room because the cool guys have arrived and nobody wants to be associated with you.

THHHHHANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[WVDolphan]

I don't either, but who cares?? Beck is worthless, and we'd be lucky if we get anything decent in trade for him....

Think about it, if you were someone's GM out there, would you seriously waste a mid / late round pick on a player like Beck?? He's already about 4 years older than most rookies coming out, and he's yet to make any impact on our roster since being drafted. He's pint size, he has no confidence while standing in the pocket, and his release sucks....

Shall I go on??... Spare us please....

IN TUNA WE TRUST.....

That is just several reasons why John Beck has ZERO trade value. Again, if Beck had any trade value, he would no longer be on our roster. That isnt IMHO.....thats just an obvious FACT.

 

[WVDolphan]

just curious FTP, why are you a beck apologist?

Im going to keep reading on through the thread after I type this response. But, I fear you have just encouraged him. Please dont feed the animals. :thanks:

 

[WVDolphan]

I give up on trying to even reason with you on the very debate at hand. You have constantly replied with comments that have nothing to do with the conversation. Can anyone else tell me why trading for Beck is a better option than signing Kyle boller to be your backup, an intelligent answer that has nothing to do with whatever FTP is still talking about. I must say its been exausting trying to even get him to examine the true issue we are discussing. Label me what you may, I have constantly asked for genuine input on the matter at hand and you keep going back to Beck not being given a chance. None of that has anything to do with his damn trade value. Jim Drukimiller was never given a chance in San francisco and was a first round pick and he had very little trade value. What the hell makes Beck such a hot commodity.

Also for those 8 people that think beck can garner a first round pick, I would love you input on how this immaculate trade would happen. This would genuinely be the greatest value increase I have ever seen. I take it from the pure silence on this that people are just putting that for the hell of it because nobody can offer any true logic behind that opinion.

Lockz. Give it up bro. FTP is simply not going to straight up answer your question. Its obvious by now. Even when you reposed the question, he answers with a simple "I would appreciate if you wouldnt start Beck threads because youre too bias."......

He isnt going to answer that question for 2 reasons......1) Because the answer is no....Beck isnt, and 2) He knows he will have to say YES and LIE to say it, as his heart tells him yes, but his head tells him no. Then after answering yes, he knows he will have to spin a bunch of bs and lie more to cover the first one when he gives reasons as to why he answers yes.

 

[BobDole]

That is just several reasons why John Beck has ZERO trade value. Again, if Beck had any trade value, he would no longer be on our roster. That isnt IMHO.....thats just an obvious FACT.

i wouldn't go that far. i think many teams understand he was put in an impossible situation and is still green in this league. look at what teams have given up to obtain ****ty qb's in the past. look at we've given up - we gave a 2nd for aj freakin feely. a 5th or 6th for beck isn't insane. but capitalizing FACT really emphasized your point.

 

[2413fanphins]

there could be a handful of teams that would send a 4th or 5th this way for him.

Kansas city needs a qb pretty bad.

everybody has trade value. if they don't they get cut. if they don't get traded it's because the team they are with, think that keeping them is worth more than the trade compensation they would receive.

quarterbacks in my mind, almost always have some sort of trade value. very few do not.

the feeley for a second is a great example. I'd give beck the boot for a 4th or conditional 5th.

 

[jvw]

I say a fourth only because on most teams he would probably get a 5 or 6th. I think the Tuna can get a fourth. He's had two yrs in the league, one being coached by a very good coaching staff. He had a chance to sit and learn while the game is probably slowing down for him which will speed up his desision making. I do think we have to trade him before the end of OTA so he can get in another teams camp and compete this yr. If Bill doesn't get a fourth I could see them getting a player in return.

 

[GoonBoss]

I can't see how he has much of any trade value past maybe a 5th. If I was a GM, I'd wonder why I should pay anything higher than that for a guy that's really proven nothing substantial. I see him as at best, Chris Weinke type product. Beck may do well. Who knows? I don't think he will, but, you never know.

I just can't see how a GM would pay more than a 5th for him. He may be a nice piece to package into a trade deal or something, but, straight up? Why get Beck when I could go and draft "my guy"? Now for a 5th? That might make it worth my while, and, I could justify it as we got a guy that was picked much higher and got a bad shake, withougt pinning anymore hope on him than to be a #2.

I don't think Beck will ammount to anything...That's well known, but I'm just looking at this through the eyes of someone who has to make these descisions for a living.

 

[dlockz]

I would just be happy if you didn't have to make another thread or post talking about Beck, your opinion is extrremely bias.

Actually I have no bias, just my honest opinion. You have not even weighed in on the actual subject and you should know by now I will weigh in on anything that i feel like. Just put me on ignore if you cannot deal with me discussing something in a rational way.

 

[dlockz]

Could be tied to team chemistry. I was introduced to an individual who actually spends time at practices, press conferences, venues, games, promotional activities. This individual works for the press. His insight to the Beck issue was interesting. He stated that there was a clear lack of support by many of the players. In that climate it is not uncommon for players to get political. If they think their bread is buttered going all out for player X who was drafted, than that is where they shine. Beck was the ugly duckling left on the frozen pond of the previous coaching staff. The early results in practice seemed to favor Henne and even McCown. However when CP arrived with the clear roll as the starter, suddenly it was about making the starting squad and Beck's performances were night and day. He out performed both McCown and Henne at times going into the preseason. McCown got his pink slip and Henne was given the backup spot while Beck was put on the backburner to come in if needed.

So to be fair, if the chemistry had Beck on the outside looking in at the start of camp the case could be made that Beck has not had a legitimate chance. It is one thing to have the support of the team and lose it because you leave them hanging during game time. It is another altogether when you become the nerd in the locker room because the cool guys have arrived and nobody wants to be associated with you.

I dont buy that but i always respect hearing your opinion and at least you weighed in with some kind of input instead of accusing me of hating a guy.

 

[feelthepain]

Actually I have no bias, just my honest opinion. You have not even weighed in on the actual subject and you should know by now I will weigh in on anything that i feel like. Just put me on ignore if you cannot deal with me discussing something in a rational way.

You have a long history of taking it to a personal level when talking about Beck, even your reasoning for the value of Beck is filled with insults. It would be nice if you could address the reason why you think it's legit to evalutqae a player on just five games played when there isn't oine GM, HC or scout that could do the same. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out when you use Becks 5 games as a reason to think he isn't a good football player that is nothing more than an excuse to promote your hate. There is no chance Becks value is based on his 5 games played, yet you try as hard as youcan to reason there is.

 

[dlockz]

You have a long history of taking it to a personal level when talking about Beck, even your reasoning for the value of Beck is filled with insults. It would be nice if you could address the reason why you think it's legit to evalutqae a player on just five games played when there isn't oine GM, HC or scout that could do the same. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out when you use Becks 5 games as a reason to think he isn't a good football player that is nothing more than an excuse to promote your hate. There is no chance Becks value is based on his 5 games played, yet you try as hard as youcan to reason there is.

Okay honestly quote any thing i took to a personal level on beck. Please show me for the hater you claim I am. I actually dont even bring up his play as a rookie hardly ever, its you that keep bringing that up. Are you sure you are not confusing me with someone else. I evaluated his trade value which is more than valid and I gave examples and history unlike yourself who came up with comparing him to the top prospect in a draft that had started for 4 years.(Steve Young)

 

[feelthepain]

Okay honestly quote any thing i took to a personal level on beck. Please show me for the hater you claim I am. I actually dont even bring up his play as a rookie hardly ever, its you that keep bringing that up. Are you sure you are not confusing me with someone else. I evaluated his trade value which is more than valid and I gave examples and history unlike yourself who came up with comparing him to the top prospect in a draft that had started for 4 years.(Steve Young)

I'm not confusing you with anyone, you and WV have quite a history of talking about how bad Beck is.