Nick Saban: Daunte Still a Prime Time Player (Post-Game Presser)

[Fineas]

There I believe that you can't draft scared of the past trends. You analyze those trends but it's important to note that the trends have to be statistically strong and have to have a reason for existence in order to be considered worthy of note.

Otherwise, I (and the scouts) feel stronger about Calvin Johnson than about any other receiver that has come out of the draft aside from maybe Larry Fitzgerald, and maybe Braylon Edwards. I think people like to bring up guys like David Terrell, Troy Williamson and Mike Williams, but I think it's plain that everyone evaluates Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, and Braylon Edwards to be on a different level from guys like Mike Williams and David Terrell.

Charles Rogers and Andre Johnson were almost at that level but not quite at the same level as those three.

On the other hand, Peter Warrick was also considered *that* good. As was Keyshawn Johnson.

But keep in mind that Keyshawn was traded by the Jets to the Bucs for two 1st round picks. And, before that, he helped the Jets win a lot of ball games (against us) by catching 31 TDs in his first four years with the Jets, and averaging 5 catches for 66 yards, 0.5 TDs a game over his first four seasons (equates out to 79 catches for 1,060 yards and 8 TDs a season). This is impressive since typically the first two years a receiver is in the league, he is developing and is not generally expected to become an 1100+ yard guy right away.

Keyshawn is a great example of why you draft a player instead of a position...because really, no Keyshawn has not turned out to be some hall of famer although he's been very good throughout his career. BUT, the Jets returned value for the investment. He not only produced for them for four years, but they spent a #1 overall pick on him and four years later got two 1st rounders for him. It's a fantastic example of how even if you end up with different position priorities down the line, drafting a talent instead of a position helps you keep that value within the team structure instead of pissing it away.

The Jets turned those two first round picks into John Abraham and Anthony Becht. Becht may have fizzled out (I'm not a big fan of first round TEs unless they are Vernon Davis types)...but they got a lot of plays from Abraham on that defense, and now they traded him to the Falcons in exchange for a first round pick from the Broncos (3-way trade) and now that pick turned into Nick Mangold. So Keyshawn Johnson has really proved to be the pick that keeps on giving...from four years of Keyshawn's production (305 catches, 4,108 yards and 31 TDs) to 6 years of John Abraham's production (283 tackles, 53.5 sacks, 19 FFums), and now on to Nick Mangold.

I have no doubt that Calvin Johnson will be a good player, but I have doubts about the reports that he has sub-4.4 speed (or anything close to that). To me, he just doesn't look like he has that great explosiveness and doesn't seem to get great separation. I see him as a Keyshawn/Mike Williams type. I'm sure he'll be a good player, but I'd be pretty wary of taking him with a top 3 pick.

 

[flintsilver7]

I didn't think Williamson had a great vertical, it was probably like 40 or 42''. Johnson has a 47'' vertical. I'm not saying that is the most important thing, but we see those nearly impossible catches Chambers gets when he jumps to the heavens and pulls one in bounds, this guy can do that, but he will also not drop the easy pass either. Calvin Johnson has been double teamed and he is still porducing well for his team, and even coming back from naggin injuries he has done well also, so he seems like he could be quite the prospect.

I was referring more to the fact that Troy Williamson has incredible speed and athleticism yet did nothing to bring Culpepper back to his 2004 form.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

The idea is to build the talent on the team, from the draft and you add free agents to finish the job....the problem is the Dolphins don't have but a few first round players still playing on the team....so you have alot of average players on the roster....and you get what you pay for....average players...play average games.

there was a time when Miami had a record 19 former first round players on the team. That team also performed badly.

There isn't one set way of becoming successful

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

I have no doubt that Calvin Johnson will be a good player, but I have doubts about the reports that he has sub-4.4 speed (or anything close to that). To me, he just doesn't look like he has that great explosiveness and doesn't seem to get great separation. I see him as a Keyshawn/Mike Williams type. I'm sure he'll be a good player, but I'd be pretty wary of taking him with a top 3 pick.

In the game I watched him against Notre Dame I thought the guy looked really fast. I know in the last few games he has played hurt. The guy seems to be hampered by a substandard quarterback

 

[fishypete]

there was a time when Miami had a record 19 former first round players on the team. That team also performed badly.

There isn't one set way of becoming successful

Your correct...but you didn't mention that most of them weren't Dolphin drafted players....they were a last gasp try for Shula. Thats why as a team...you have to build from the draft....get your own players...let them learn the hard way...on the field....let them learn together as unit.

The same way you need to leave the players on the O-line alone...they don't learn to play together in a few games....it takes time.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

Your correct...but you didn't mention that most of them weren't Dolphin drafted players....they were a last gasp try for Shula. Thats why as a team...you have to build from the draft....get your own players...let them learn the hard way...on the field....let them learn together as unit.

The same way you need to leave the players on the O-line alone...they don't learn to play together in a few games....it takes time.

Well so far Saban has 2 first rounders. Are they supposed to be the players who turn it around?

 

[fishypete]

Well so far Saban has 2 first rounders. Are they supposed to be the players who turn it around?

Actually only one....is really playing. If he chose's correctly...in time we'll know. When you look at the total team...we have ONLY three first rounders selected by the Dolphins still on the roster....Carey, Brown and Allen....hard to show talent....when you only have two first rounders that you picked playing.

 

[Finole]

If the Fins pick anything other than a Left Tackle in the 1st round next year, our offense won't improve.

 

[adamprez2003]

If the Fins pick anything other than a Left Tackle in the 1st round next year, our offense won't improve.

if we pick a left tackle in the first round our offense wont improve because of that in 2007 but rather in 2008. Dbrickshaw is at best an average tackle this year but he'll probably be a beast next year after the experience he gained and the strength program takes hold. Tackles are a two or three year project when you draft them. 90% of them dont elevate the position first year out

 

[flintsilver7]

If the Fins pick anything other than a Left Tackle in the 1st round next year, our offense won't improve.

I think what you meant to say was quarterback. Let me repeat:

QUARTERBACK.

The left tackle position has been handled well enough by Damion McIntosh.

 

[muscle979]

there was a time when Miami had a record 19 former first round players on the team. That team also performed badly.

There isn't one set way of becoming successful

Are you talking about 95? They were a huge disappointment but nowhere near this bad.

 

[muscle979]

I think what you meant to say was quarterback. Let me repeat:

QUARTERBACK.

The left tackle position has been handled well enough by Damion McIntosh.

Call me crazy but I think this team is cursed and will not be successful again until they draft a franchise QB in the first round. Anybody agree?

 

[ckparrothead]

I think what you meant to say was quarterback. Let me repeat:

QUARTERBACK.

The left tackle position has been handled well enough by Damion McIntosh.

I love the people on this board. It's like, if you can't make a point using thorough research and logic, then just use a bunch of smileys here, intentionally misinterpret what someone says there, insert a bigger font size, toss in a childish "I know you are but what am I" type sentence, and bam...done.

 

[ckparrothead]

I have no doubt that Calvin Johnson will be a good player, but I have doubts about the reports that he has sub-4.4 speed (or anything close to that). To me, he just doesn't look like he has that great explosiveness and doesn't seem to get great separation. I see him as a Keyshawn/Mike Williams type. I'm sure he'll be a good player, but I'd be pretty wary of taking him with a top 3 pick.

I'm 100% with you on the reports that Calvin Johnson has sub-4.4 speed. The day he runs a 4.35 will be the day I win the lottery.

The last I checked, the guy ran something more along the lines of a 4.5, maybe cracking into the 4.4 range.

And a report of a 47 inch vertical would have to be considered on the ridiculous side at this point, no offense to anyone. Let's see him reproduce those in Indy or at his pro day.

The actual 40 time doesn't matter so much as what his collective times tell you about his acceleration, burst, explosion and top speed.

But at this point to compare him to Mike Williams is not a very good comparison. Reggie Williams, maybe...but Mike Williams and Calvin Johnson are two very different draft prospects. There were maturity issues with Williams, also a pure physical conditioning issue with him having to do with him not having played any football in well over a year. I think those two have combined to hurt him way more than anything else in Detroit. Quite frankly, a lot of analysts looked at Mike Williams and never predicted him to be anything more than a tight end.

Nobody, and I do mean nobody, is saying that about Calvin Johnson.

Although I would say that about Jeff Samardjiza :)

 

[Finole]

if we pick a left tackle in the first round our offense wont improve because of that in 2007 but rather in 2008. Dbrickshaw is at best an average tackle this year but he'll probably be a beast next year after the experience he gained and the strength program takes hold. Tackles are a two or three year project when you draft them. 90% of them dont elevate the position first year out

Ferguson handled ZT and JT pretty well.

LT Jonathan Ogden started all 16 games for BALT his 1st year.
LT Willie Roaf started all 16 games for N.O. his 1st year.
LT Chris Samuels started all 16 games for WASH his 1st year.
LT Jordan Gross started all 16 games for CAR his 1st year.
LT Leonard Davis started all 16 games for AZ his 1st year.
LT Tarik Glenn started all 16 games for Indy his 1st year.
LT Orlando Pace started 13 games for STL his 1st year.
LT Jammal Brown started 13 games for N.O. his 1st year.
LT Walter Jones (from FSU) started 12 games for SEA his 1st year.

I'm not saying it happens every time. But more often than not, when you pick the first Left Tackle available in the 1st round of the draft, he starts and makes an impact his first year.

He might not dominate until his second year. But McIntosh will never dominate.

The last great Left Tackle we had was Richmond Webb. Shula took him with the 9th pick in the 1st round. He was the first LT taken. He went to 7 Pro Bowls (including his first year - 1990). And he started all 16 games his first year.