Overrated & Underrated Players? | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Overrated & Underrated Players?

As for the consistency of Bess' drops...let's go into that.

I said that he ranked #12 out of 47 when it comes to Drop Percentage among WRs with 50+ catches. His Drop Percentage was 8.43%, meaning he dropped 7 balls and caught 76 ( DrpPct = 7 / (7 + 76) ).

So what do you think it was in 2008, his rookie year? If you believe that the drops in 2009 were an abberation I think you would say lower, right? But in 2008 he dropped 5 balls and caught 54 others, which means his Drop Percentage was 8.47%....pretty much identical to 2009.

So, I don't know exactly what walt was trying to insinuate...he would have to tell you that. But, if he was trying to say that Davone Bess is overrated because, despite his reputation for having such great hands, he actually has consistently dropped the ball more often than most players at his position that get thrown the ball as often as him...then walt would be 100 percent correct.

As for this catch percentage you're talking about, it's a very, very muddy statistic. The fact of the matter is Davone Bess is a slot receiver and he catches the ball on average something like 5.5 yards off the line of scrimmage (5.47 to be more exact) and the chances of an inaccurate ball go WAY down when you're only throwing the ball 5 yards off the line of scrimmage. All slot receivers will tend to have much higher catch percentages than guys that work on the outside. Not only are they closer to the QB by virtue of starting off in the slot more often as opposed to outside the numbers, but the guys outside the numbers tend to get the ball thrown to them farther off the line of scrimmage.
 
Overrated: Hartline ( Had a great rookie yr, look out for the 2nd yr slump)
Underrated: Channing Crowder ( Dansby will make him shine this yr, along with the young LB's nipping at his heels)
 
CK is laying it down haha

Im not going to put any rookies in for over/under I dont feel you can be overrated or underrated until you actually step onto the NFL field.

Overated: Fasano, this guy needs to step it up.
Chris Clemons, he needs to prove himself and to many people think he is starting FS quality before he has done anything.
Donald Thomas, maybe is was just a temp. slump, I know he had injuries (chest),but he didnt perform in pass protection at all.

Underated: Jason Allen, yes he has switched between every secondary posistion it seems and could not get a started role which is horrible for a 1st round pick but ive come to accept what he will be, a good special team player who can fill in at CB is needed. He did a great job on Welker last year and has played pretty good on special teams.

Eric Walden: Again, underated it what he does for this team, the guy is our special team ace in my opinion, and he really helped turn our special teams around.

Vernon Carey: It easy to be overshadowed when one of the best tackles in the game is on the otherside of the line. There is a reason why this man got paid though, he is a GREAT right tackle.
 
Prime said:
Ck im curious as to why you feel Marshall is overrated.
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It's just the nature of high profile acquisitions. Interest is so high and the off season so long that these high profile acquisitions are talked about and talked about until everyone is convinced that the team picked up a god, and then there's usually some air that gets let out when everyone discovers that he's not a god, just a football player, and one that happens to be maybe just a little bit better than most of the other guys.

Look how negative the reaction was to Joey Porter his first year here, and the very next year it looked like he was threatening the single season sack record.
 
XxfeensterxX said:
CK is laying it down haha

Im not going to put any rookies in for over/under I dont feel you can be overrated or underrated until you actually step onto the NFL field.

Overated: Fasano, this guy needs to step it up.
Chris Clemons, he needs to prove himself and to many people think he is starting FS quality before he has done anything.
Donald Thomas, maybe is was just a temp. slump, I know he had injuries (chest),but he didnt perform in pass protection at all.

Underated: Jason Allen, yes he has switched between every secondary posistion it seems and could not get a started role which is horrible for a 1st round pick but ive come to accept what he will be, a good special team player who can fill in at CB is needed. He did a great job on Welker last year and has played pretty good on special teams.

Eric Walden: Again, underated it what he does for this team, the guy is our special team ace in my opinion, and he really helped turn our special teams around.

Vernon Carey: It easy to be overshadowed when one of the best tackles in the game is on the otherside of the line. There is a reason why this man got paid though, he is a GREAT right tackle.
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Great pick!
 
Over- Ronnie Brown

Under- Greg Camarillo
 
i find it hard to believe that a guy who if he stays healthy should catch 100 balls for i'd say around 1200 yards and 10 plus tds is overrated in brandon marshall...

more like a ******* godsend...
 
eric walden was a difference maker on specials but otherwise he's just a guy and there's new young fresh competition in camp
 
ckparrothead said:
There are a lot of people out there that question whether he can play the NT position very well. He's just not being discussed as the kind of player that he actually is. This is our Richard Seymour, Kevin Williams, Darnall Dockett, etc...he's that caliber a player. He's not just 2nd, 3rd or 4th best on the team. He might well be 2nd, 3rd or 4th best in the league at his position.
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holy cow...which position we talking here about starks being top 4 in the league ...nose or 3-4 end???
 
and you come to that determination as a nose off of some tape from 2008??? i don't think the body of work is large enough to make that statement...

the cuts you did were great but i'm gonna have to see it on a game in game out consistent basis...
 
ckparrothead said:
As for the consistency of Bess' drops...let's go into that.

I said that he ranked #12 out of 47 when it comes to Drop Percentage among WRs with 50+ catches. His Drop Percentage was 8.43%, meaning he dropped 7 balls and caught 76 ( DrpPct = 7 / (7 + 76) ).

So what do you think it was in 2008, his rookie year? If you believe that the drops in 2009 were an abberation I think you would say lower, right? But in 2008 he dropped 5 balls and caught 54 others, which means his Drop Percentage was 8.47%....pretty much identical to 2009.

So, I don't know exactly what walt was trying to insinuate...he would have to tell you that. But, if he was trying to say that Davone Bess is overrated because, despite his reputation for having such great hands, he actually has consistently dropped the ball more often than most players at his position that get thrown the ball as often as him...then walt would be 100 percent correct.

As for this catch percentage you're talking about, it's a very, very muddy statistic. The fact of the matter is Davone Bess is a slot receiver and he catches the ball on average something like 5.5 yards off the line of scrimmage (5.47 to be more exact) and the chances of an inaccurate ball go WAY down when you're only throwing the ball 5 yards off the line of scrimmage. All slot receivers will tend to have much higher catch percentages than guys that work on the outside. Not only are they closer to the QB by virtue of starting off in the slot more often as opposed to outside the numbers, but the guys outside the numbers tend to get the ball thrown to them farther off the line of scrimmage.
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Thanks for the statistical support. To be clear, I am not saying that Bess is a bad player, and certainly not in the T. Ginn category as far as drops go. I expect him to continue to be our slot receiver. However, I said that Bess is overrated ON THIS BOARD, because many on this Board seem to believe that he is one of the best slot receivers in the league. Given his semi-regular drops (now established statistically) and lack of speed or YAC production, I'm not seeing him as quite that good. As I've said before, I think there is a chance he drops to #4 receiver if Camarillo and Hartline outwork him in TC.
 
Here are the nose tackles in this league:

Buffalo Bills - Kyle Williams
New England - Vince Wilfork
New York Jets - Kris Jenkins
Baltimore Ravens - Kelly Gregg
Cleveland Browns - Shaun Rogers
Pittsburgh Steelers - Casey Hampton
Denver Broncos - Jamal Williams
Kansas City Chiefs - Ron Edwards
San Diego Chargers - Ogemdi Nwagbuo
Dallas Cowboys - Jay Ratliff
Washington Redskins - Ma'ake Kemoeatu
Green Bay Packers - Ryan Pickett
Arizona Cardinals - Bryan Robinson
San Francisco 49ers - Aubrayo Franklin

Of those, I expect only Jay Ratliff and Vince Wilfork to play noticeably better than Randy Starks next year at NT. I think some folks will argue for this guy or that guy but I expect Randy Starks to come in 3rd place on that list.
 
hooshoops said:
and you come to that determination as a nose off of some tape from 2008??? i don't think the body of work is large enough to make that statement...

the cuts you did were great but i'm gonna have to see it on a game in game out consistent basis...
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No, not based on that at all. Based on his entire body of work and his skill set. The positions are not nearly as differentiated as you seem to be making out.
 
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