Playoffs or not, Ireland's got to go

[finfan54]

We need higher caliber people in the key positions, although I'm not sure it fully matters as long as we stay in this stadium.

Losing Mike Dee was a positive start. An out of touch yes man is roughly the equivalent of the guys who don't survive the first cut in August. What's the gamble in dropping Jeff Ireland? We can't find another guy who is mid pack, at best? I don't read too many arguments that he's fantastic. An occasional great player would be preferable to Ireland's tendencies. I'd also like to have a draft class who sound smart and impressive, instead of the familiar sampling of blockheads who make me cringe as soon as they open their mouth. I'm forever asking myself how we catch the Patriots with lugs like this?

there are 32 teams picking.....you can have all the brains in the world and intelligence and still have all your guys stolen from you by other teams.henceforth, causing you to trade up and get your guy.

 

[gofins60]

tannehill is a qb who came from this system. new everything would be the end of RT in Miami if that happens.

Miami spent a lot of money for Wallace, who IMO doesn't fit Philbin/Sherman's system. The problem is that Tannehill just can't figure out how to consistently hit Wallace in stride when he gets past the defenders. You'd think that by the end of the season these two would be hooking up for multiple TDs per game, but that just hasn't happened. I see Wallace as a game-changing deep threat, but only if the QB can make the throw. I realize that Wallace is not going to fight for the ball and he must be hit in stride to be successful, but the QB has to make that throw. If I had to choose between Tannehill (and the current system) or Wallace in a new system with a QB who could make those throws, then bye-bye Philbin, Sherman, and Tannehill.

Yes, Miami has waited a long time for a decent QB, but if Tannehill can't learn to hit Wallace in stride then he's not as good as everyone says.

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

No it doesn't. If you read my response, in that scenario you will hopefully understand that the next GM will have limited power. This will prevent whole sale changes and continue with the team and coaches continuity.
The only thing that will change is the intelligence of the person who acquires talent. You obviously like what Jeff has done here. I look at what he has done right and wrong.
Time for a change as long as Tony Dungy is the top executive. He would be the steady hand that this team is looking for since Shula's departure. Ireland is an amateur running the team. Dungy is a professional.
If I was Ross, I would park the Brinks truck in his driveway.
Winning starts at the top.

Dungy is a professional? I guess if you 'think' so. The guy is a nice guy on TV and all, but as a Coach, he wasn't all that great. And being in charge of anything higher than coaching, is a reach. Your thoughts on Dungy being a executive is all opinion, based on nothing.

As for Ireland. I said once Tannehill was drafted, and he was still here. Ireland would get at least 3 years, if not 4 to build around a new coach and new system. When you draft such a young raw developing QB, along with a new coach and new system, you don't cut your losses after 2 seasons. Unless you fail miserably and have to rinse and repeat.

I understand your wants. They are just not based in reality. Even in NY, that GM wants his Coach. Regardless of the work Ryan has done this year. The GM was stuck with a lame duck and wants his prints on that team. All new GMs want their finger prints on their team. And it starts with the coach and filters down to the rest of the staff and players.

 

[iambanned]

The way Rex Ryan handled his preseason and got Sanchez killed so that they played the season with no NFL-ready QBs was grounds enough to fire his butt, so let's not kid ourselves. I love Rex Ryan's spirit and energy and his players fight for him but he's General Custer and we know how that worked out. Jets GM is somewhat culpable too but Ryan buried him with that preseason QB blunder. Sanchez is not good but has shown that if your run-game and defense are solid, he can make enough plays to win a game, unlike Geno, who flat-out wasted some Sundays, including the one against us. NY has only lost one game more than us with that putrid QB situation. It's hard for me to believe they wouldn't be at least that one game better with Sanchez. Rex taketh and Rex giveth and they are one game under 500 and could finish tied with us.
What does that say about the overall merit of our two rosters? We have a much more developed QB and a couple solid, if not great WRs while the Jets have who at WR? Kerley, who can't stay healthy and Santonio Holmes, who's a rich man's Davone Bess. Jets can block, run, and stop the run and we can't.
I'm not sure who I'd rather be, us of them. Probably us, I suppose, but the record, as of 4:15 Sunday, might say it's a pure toss-up.
Philbin's disdain of veteran leadership seems just as egregious as Ryan's preseason QB blunder, and that blunder is ultimately getting Ryan fired.

 

[iambanned]

LoL at finheaven auto-correcting Sanchez to buttfumble. Hahaha!

 

[malek2972]

QB – Tannehill has shown enough improvement to give him a positive grade for year 2. If he takes the final step in year 3 then Ireland will have solved the team’s greatest shortfall over the past decade.
RB – Choosing Miller/Thomas combo > Bush was a big concern for me going into year 2. Ireland put too much faith in his RBs and never signed a veteran replacement. I believe Ireland let his arrogance get the better of him, needs to swallow some crow, and has to upgrade the position in year 3.
WR – Resigned Hartline. Picked up Wallace and Gibson who have both contributed. Didn’t panic when Gibson got hurt and Mathews stepped up and filled the slot receiver role. I can’t say Ireland didn’t provide the necessary tools for success at WR. Overall WR position is much better but there’s still loads of room for improvement.
TE – Signed Keller who went down early. Against everyone’s better judgment he elected to stick with Clay/Sims/Egnew. It turned out to be the correct call so have to give him full credit for that.
OL – This is an area where it’s hard see how Ireland didn’t fail miserably. Passed on Albert who just made the Pro Bowl. Clabo seemed like a solid pickup but didn’t pan out at all. Failed on J-Mart which ignited the whole Incogito scandal. Did manage to pick up Brenner and McKinnie (which may have salvaged the season) but it really never should have gotten to that point.
DL – Some would argue that he over-invested in this area. Jordan is a luxury. Overall DL is an area of strength but it may have come at the cost of fortifying other positions on the team.
LB – This one is tough to figure out. There’s obviously a problem here but it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what that problem is. If it comes down to player personnel then it is Ireland’s fault. If it’s our defensive scheme then the issue falls on the coaching. It is kind of ironic that the 2 LBs we let walk are both significant contributors to their new teams.
DB – Very mixed results here. Grimes was a home run but can we resign him next year? Patterson/Carrol have managed to fill the opposite position. Safeties have been average at best. The remaining CBs have ranged from average to scrubs (2 draft picks can’t find the field). Thomas signing turned out to be a key move down the stretch. My gut feeling is that Ireland will make very few changes at this position.
Special Teams – Sturgis > Carpenter was a controversial move. Can’t say we improved in this area but the team did shed salary and Sturgis could still work out in the long term. Fields is a pro bowler. Thigpen has disappointed overall but has had his moments.
Salary Cap – Ireland chose salary cap > veteran leadership which has hurt us badly this year. It’s a big reason for the team’s inconsistent ability to win. Financially however Ireland COULD pull this off IF he can find the right people to fill the holes next year. The team is in a pretty good shape when it comes to the salary cap.
Coaches – Status quo will not be good enough for Ireland to keep his job beyond next year. He’ll need to make some key decisions with the skill position coaching. Will also need to decide if Sherman is the right OC for this team. Philibin may be the only coach not under scrutiny this offseason.

Overall – If the team finishes 9-7 then Ireland lives to see another year (playoffs or not). His reputation will likely continue being a hindrance that can only be overcome by winning. Rebuilding a team is a multi-year process and if you only look at the last two years of work you’ll see an upward trend. However our memories are not that short and our better judgment tells us that sticking with Ireland is indeed high risk. I have serious doubts about him getting this team to the next level, but the team’s overall performance this year will be enough to earn him one more year.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

QB – Tannehill has shown enough improvement to give him a positive grade for year 2. If he takes the final step in year 3 then Ireland will have solved the team’s greatest shortfall over the past decade.
RB – Choosing Miller/Thomas combo > Bush was a big concern for me going into year 2. Ireland put too much faith in his RBs and never signed a veteran replacement. I believe Ireland let his arrogance get the better of him, needs to swallow some crow, and has to upgrade the position in year 3.
WR – Resigned Hartline. Picked up Wallace and Gibson who have both contributed. Didn’t panic when Gibson got hurt and Mathews stepped up and filled the slot receiver role. I can’t say Ireland didn’t provide the necessary tools for success at WR. Overall WR position is much better but there’s still loads of room for improvement.
TE – Signed Keller who went down early. Against everyone’s better judgment he elected to stick with Clay/Sims/Egnew. It turned out to be the correct call so have to give him full credit for that.
OL – This is an area where it’s hard see how Ireland didn’t fail miserably. Passed on Albert who just made the Pro Bowl. Clabo seemed like a solid pickup but didn’t pan out at all. Failed on J-Mart which ignited the whole Incogito scandal. Did manage to pick up Brenner and McKinnie (which may have salvaged the season) but it really never should have gotten to that point.
DL – Some would argue that he over-invested in this area. Jordan is a luxury. Overall DL is an area of strength but it may have come at the cost of fortifying other positions on the team.
LB – This one is tough to figure out. There’s obviously a problem here but it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what that problem is. If it comes down to player personnel then it is Ireland’s fault. If it’s our defensive scheme then the issue falls on the coaching. It is kind of ironic that the 2 LBs we let walk are both significant contributors to their new teams.
DB – Very mixed results here. Grimes was a home run but can we resign him next year? Patterson/Carrol have managed to fill the opposite position. Safeties have been average at best. The remaining CBs have ranged from average to scrubs (2 draft picks can’t find the field). Thomas signing turned out to be a key move down the stretch. My gut feeling is that Ireland will make very few changes at this position.
Special Teams – Sturgis > Carpenter was a controversial move. Can’t say we improved in this area but the team did shed salary and Sturgis could still work out in the long term. Fields is a pro bowler. Thigpen has disappointed overall but has had his moments.
Salary Cap – Ireland chose salary cap > veteran leadership which has hurt us badly this year. It’s a big reason for the team’s inconsistent ability to win. Financially however Ireland COULD pull this off IF he can find the right people to fill the holes next year. The team is in a pretty good shape when it comes to the salary cap.
Coaches – Status quo will not be good enough for Ireland to keep his job beyond next year. He’ll need to make some key decisions with the skill position coaching. Will also need to decide if Sherman is the right OC for this team. Philibin may be the only coach not under scrutiny this offseason.

Overall – If the team finishes 9-7 then Ireland lives to see another year (playoffs or not). His reputation will likely continue being a hindrance that can only be overcome by winning. Rebuilding a team is a multi-year process and if you only look at the last two years of work you’ll see an upward trend. However our memories are not that short and our better judgment tells us that sticking with Ireland is indeed high risk. I have serious doubts about him getting this team to the next level, but the team’s overall performance this year will be enough to earn him one more year.

Even if I don't agree with all of this, you took the time to coherently explain a reasonable, well-formed opinion.

What's wrong with you?

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

Miami spent a lot of money for Wallace, who IMO doesn't fit Philbin/Sherman's system. The problem is that Tannehill just can't figure out how to consistently hit Wallace in stride when he gets past the defenders. You'd think that by the end of the season these two would be hooking up for multiple TDs per game, but that just hasn't happened. I see Wallace as a game-changing deep threat, but only if the QB can make the throw. I realize that Wallace is not going to fight for the ball and he must be hit in stride to be successful, but the QB has to make that throw. If I had to choose between Tannehill (and the current system) or Wallace in a new system with a QB who could make those throws, then bye-bye Philbin, Sherman, and Tannehill.

Yes, Miami has waited a long time for a decent QB, but if Tannehill can't learn to hit Wallace in stride then he's not as good as everyone says.

Big Ben couldn't do it either. Wallace never runs the same speed two times in a row. NO qb is gonna hit him in stride play after play. But make no mistake, no one is getting rid of Tannehill to please Wallace. Tannehill in the franchise not Wallace.

 

[JTC111]

there are 32 teams picking.....you can have all the brains in the world and intelligence and still have all your guys stolen from you by other teams.henceforth, causing you to trade up and get your guy.

So now Ireland sucks because there are 31 other GMs picking players. I wonder how the good GMs manage to be good under those same conditions. These excuses are becoming comical.

As for Ireland. I said once Tannehill was drafted, and he was still here. Ireland would get at least 3 years, if not 4 to build around a new coach and new system. When you draft such a young raw developing QB, along with a new coach and new system, you don't cut your losses after 2 seasons. Unless you fail miserably and have to rinse and repeat.

Ireland just completed a draft last year where we had extras picks in the early rounds and he managed to find NOT ONE STARTER for a team that had holes all over the place. Another draft like that is going to set up back. He sucks. Get rid of him.

 

[finfan54]

So now Ireland sucks because there are 31 other GMs picking players. I wonder how the good GMs manage to be good under those same conditions. These excuses are becoming comical.

Ireland just completed a draft last year where we had extras picks in the early rounds and he managed to find NOT ONE STARTER for a team that had holes all over the place. Another draft like that is going to set up back. He sucks. Get rid of him.

your basing everything on year 1 of rookie players. A lot of picks were depth at key positions with guys Ireland picked up in grimes and Patterson with his fifth rounder in carroll who is a keeper now.

so he didn't fix the oline. he got clabo and was banking on Martin becoming the left tackle. he got sabotaged. GM's are not perfect. you are claiming they are. your not being at all objective.

look at the ravens. they screwed up too. but then they get Monroe, who I think is a free agent, and gave up a pick. so this is success? for how long?

 

[finfan54]

I disagree that the safeties have been "avg. at best". that is a line that is used a lot on this board that implies they sucked.

 

[Atila]

your basing everything on year 1 of rookie players. A lot of picks were depth at key positions with guys Ireland picked up in grimes and Patterson with his fifth rounder in carroll who is a keeper now.

so he didn't fix the oline. he got clabo and was banking on Martin becoming the left tackle. he got sabotaged. GM's are not perfect. you are claiming they are. your not being at all objective.

look at the ravens. they screwed up too. but then they get Monroe, who I think is a free agent, and gave up a pick. so this is success? for how long?

To address your first comment - yes, we need to give draft picks a chance, but you are lying to yourself if you are not disappointed by the overall output we got from this years draft (next to nothing).

To your second comment, the reason Ireland is being judged so harshly is because he has been here FIVE YEARS. There is no excuse for our OL to be the disaster that it is. None.

And finally to address your third comment, the Ravens have won 2 Super Bowls in the 2000s and have made many great draft picks and consistently put out a great product... you comparing us to them based on ONE move is ridiculously shortsighted and foolish on your end. Don't compare our franchise with them, we aren't even worth comparing to that team for the past decade.

 

[finfan54]

To address your first comment - yes, we need to give draft picks a chance, but you are lying to yourself if you are not disappointed by the overall output we got from this years draft (next to nothing).

To your second comment, the reason Ireland is being judged so harshly is because he has been here FIVE YEARS. There is no excuse for our OL to be the disaster that it is. None.

And finally to address your third comment, the Ravens have won 2 Super Bowls in the 2000s and have made many great draft picks and consistently put out a great product... you comparing us to them based on ONE move is ridiculously shortsighted and foolish on your end. Don't compare our franchise with them, we aren't even worth comparing to that team for the past decade.

living in the past. that's where your strength lies.

ryan tannehill can take us places. Ireland pick. I see him successfully like joe flacco. so whatever you say......I think we are in much better position than at any time in the last 20 years. best wr core since duper,clayton,moore.

 

[JTC111]

your basing everything on year 1 of rookie players.

No, that was a response to a point you made. I'm basing my opinion off of the fact that Ireland inherited a mediocre team and after 5 years of his leadership we're still a mediocre team.

A lot of picks were depth at key positions with guys Ireland picked up in grimes and Patterson with his fifth rounder in carroll who is a keeper now.

Depth? Is that a joke? He was drafting for depth when we clearly had huge holes to fill? If that's true, then Ireland is guilty of the same thing of which you're guilty: over-estimating the talent on this team. That's another good reason to fire him. I don't want a GM acting like a fanboi and falling in love with guys just because they're on the team. I want a GM who can make objective evaluations of players, including those he's drafted.

 

[finfan54]

No, that was a response to a point you made. I'm basing my opinion off of the fact that Ireland inherited a mediocre team and after 5 years of his leadership we're still a mediocre team.


Depth? Is that a joke? He was drafting for depth when we clearly had huge holes to fill? If that's true, then Ireland is guilty of the same thing of which you're guilty: over-estimating the talent on this team. That's another good reason to fire him. I don't want a GM acting like a fanboi and falling in love with guys just because they're on the team. I want a GM who can make objective evaluations of players, including those he's drafted.

just be sure to tell me master who we should draft so I can hold you accountable.