Report: RED SOX win top bid for Japanesse pitcher

[Ray Finkle]

I want the Sox to pick up some good relief pitchers because they have no quality bullpen guys left and their starting rotation is set.

Agreed. We need to get a jump on some guys soon.

 

[King Felix]

im not sure anyone knows the answer to this question but im sure some1 knows a little bit on it. how big is matasuaka(sp?) in japan compared to matsui and ichiro?

 

[MikeO]

im not sure anyone knows the answer to this question but im sure some1 knows a little bit on it. how big is matasuaka(sp?) in japan compared to matsui and ichiro?

he is as big a star as those 2 from all reports

 

[UCFinfan86]

that is not true, yeah i am a yankee fan but no way would i be happy with the yankees paying upwards of 100 million for a pitcher than never pitched in the majors

plus scouts say that he is a little over hyped and could be a #3 starter, they said a major problem could be that his fastball is pretty straight

plus i like this article that was on fox sports earlier
Sox can no longer whine about 'Evil Empire'

They aren't called the Evil Empire just cause they spend whatever amount they spend, its the way they go about it and the history between them

 

[FinsNYanksFan13]

So by that standard, you're not excited about Humberto Sanchez at all, are you? Because that would be a little hasty since he's never dominated MLB batters and you've probably never seen him pitch.

It does not matter who the hitters are when you're striking out 230+ batters in 200+ innings with an ERA around 3. That's just plain impressive, and while there is always the chance that he doesn't pan out, it's no different from any other prospect. Obviously, there's more money at all, and that's why there are so many emotions in this case.

I actually never said I saw Sanchez pitch, nor did I say he would dominate MLB batters so your point of responding to my point was what? I may have said Sanchez has upside but I would never say he's worth more or better then Zito or Schmidt being that HE'S NEVER RECORDED AN OUT IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. Now do you understand what I was trying to say? What I was responding to in phunwin's post was the fact that he was saying Matsuzaka is better then Zito and Schmidt but that can't be the truth being that those 2 have been at the top of MLB a handful of years now and Matsuzaka has never recorded an out. I might hear that Sanchez has the chance to be the best pitcher Major League Baseball but until he proves it does that mean he doesn't have to prove it before he's annointed better then guys who are in the running for the CY Young year in and year out? I'm not letting emotions involved, just stating the truth. How can someone say that Matsuzaka is worth more or is going to be better then Barry Zito who has won a CY Young and out-dueled Johan Santana in the playoffs this year? Again, if Matsuzaka comes out and has a huge year this upcoming season it will be easy for me to say "he's better then Zito and is going to have a better career" but all these people saying it right now are just going off media reports and making assumptions. That's the problem with this country, to many people taking the media's word as gospel. Again, I'm not saying Matsuzaka doesn't have huge upside and doesn't have the chance to be one of the best pitchers in MLB but until he shows something on the mound that shows it, no one should say he's better quality then guys like Zito and Schmidt!

 

[UCFinfan86]

I actually never said I saw Sanchez pitch, nor did I say he would dominate MLB batters so your point of responding to my point was what? I may have said Sanchez has upside but I would never say he's worth more or better then Zito or Schmidt being that HE'S NEVER RECORDED AN OUT IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. Now do you understand what I was trying to say? What I was responding to in phunwin's post was the fact that he was saying Matsuzaka is better then Zito and Schmidt but that can't be the truth being that those 2 have been at the top of MLB a handful of years now and Matsuzaka has never recorded an out. I might hear that Sanchez has the chance to be the best pitcher Major League Baseball but until he proves it does that mean he doesn't have to prove it before he's annointed better then guys who are in the running for the CY Young year in and year out? I'm not letting emotions involved, just stating the truth. How can someone say that Matsuzaka is worth more or is going to be better then Barry Zito who has won a CY Young and out-dueled Johan Santana in the playoffs this year? Again, if Matsuzaka comes out and has a huge year this upcoming season it will be easy for me to say "he's better then Zito and is going to have a better career" but all these people saying it right now are just going off media reports and making assumptions. That's the problem with this country, to many people taking the media's word as gospel. Again, I'm not saying Matsuzaka doesn't have huge upside and doesn't have the chance to be one of the best pitchers in MLB but until he shows something on the mound that shows it, no one should say he's better quality then guys like Zito and Schmidt!

Your right, right now hes not, but the fact is he has way more upside then either of those pitchers, and like every sport franchise, you pay a tremendous amount for a player with alot of upside, hoping they reach their potential. With Scmidt and Zito, you pretty much know what your going to get, with Matsuzaka the sky seems the limit.

 

[MikeO]

They aren't called the Evil Empire just cause they spend whatever amount they spend, its the way they go about it and the history between them

explain this. I'm dying to hear the answer.

What is the "way we go about it"....

Please explain that...................................

 

[RWhitney014]

I actually never said I saw Sanchez pitch, nor did I say he would dominate MLB batters so your point of responding to my point was what? I may have said Sanchez has upside but I would never say he's worth more or better then Zito or Schmidt being that HE'S NEVER RECORDED AN OUT IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL. Now do you understand what I was trying to say? What I was responding to in phunwin's post was the fact that he was saying Matsuzaka is better then Zito and Schmidt but that can't be the truth being that those 2 have been at the top of MLB a handful of years now and Matsuzaka has never recorded an out. I might hear that Sanchez has the chance to be the best pitcher Major League Baseball but until he proves it does that mean he doesn't have to prove it before he's annointed better then guys who are in the running for the CY Young year in and year out? I'm not letting emotions involved, just stating the truth. How can someone say that Matsuzaka is worth more or is going to be better then Barry Zito who has won a CY Young and out-dueled Johan Santana in the playoffs this year? Again, if Matsuzaka comes out and has a huge year this upcoming season it will be easy for me to say "he's better then Zito and is going to have a better career" but all these people saying it right now are just going off media reports and making assumptions. That's the problem with this country, to many people taking the media's word as gospel. Again, I'm not saying Matsuzaka doesn't have huge upside and doesn't have the chance to be one of the best pitchers in MLB but until he shows something on the mound that shows it, no one should say he's better quality then guys like Zito and Schmidt!

Tony, I understand your point, but here's what you wrote to Phil before:


"Yeah because he's dominated MLB batters his whole career. I mean honestly man, how many full games have you watched the kid pitch?"

The point I'm trying to make is, no one has ever seen any prospect pitch before, but we still say, wow, this guy's gonna be great because he's wiping the floor with AA hitters. So to say Matsuzaka is not going to be good - which you didn't say, but a lot of people are using the "he pitched in Japan and they're not as good over there" argument - is plain dumb. His stuff's fantastic according to all scouting reports, his numbers are better, and his body hasn't shown serious signs of breaking under the pressure. At his age on this market with the way money is being thrown around, it's a calculated risk, but it's got a huge payoff. If I had the money for both, I'd rather spend $80 million on Matusaka than $48 on Ted Lilly.

 

[UCFinfan86]

explain this. I'm dying to hear the answer.

What is the "way we go about it"....

Please explain that...................................

My view point, it proably isn't the way everyone else feels, but the way i feel about it is.....

I some of the history, but i don't know all of it, but i mean everyone knows the obvious things like babe ruth, bucky dent, etc.

A few years back they had a payroll close to half of ours, but yet we are expected to compete every year(As we should be), Now you have said a few months back that once you spend over a certain amount (don't remember the amount you stated) it doesn't matter how much you spend its all the same, but it DOES matter, 80 mill or whatever is ATLEAST 4 great players.

Another reason for me is how they make their team so strict, there is no need to run it like a dictatorship. What is wrong with letting their players wear facial hair or have long hair?

My main problem is basically how they use their money not always for themselves, but just to block the Redsox from getting a player or whatever. I wouldn't mind as much if you would go spend 200$ million and spend it the right way. Like i feel, which may not be correct, that you guys really didn't want Damon for whatever you signed him for (4 years/50 mill i believe) but you did it more so just so you could stick it to the Sox.

But the move that really pissed me off was the Gary Sheffield trade. That is just the yankees taking advantage of their money, you don't see no other team doing that, and i find that unfair. Signing a guy that you have NO intentions on keeping, just for the fact that you can trade him and don't care since money is no object.

Now every sox and yankee fan on this board proably feels differently on it then me. I don't care, this is how i feel about it, so go ahead bash me because i dont think about it as the "correct" way or whatever you way think of it as, which must be the right way to view the statement "Evil Empire"

 

[FinsNYanksFan13]

Tony, I understand your point, but here's what you wrote to Phil before:


"Yeah because he's dominated MLB batters his whole career. I mean honestly man, how many full games have you watched the kid pitch?"

The point I'm trying to make is, no one has ever seen any prospect pitch before, but we still say, wow, this guy's gonna be great because he's wiping the floor with AA hitters. So to say Matsuzaka is not going to be good - which you didn't say, but a lot of people are using the "he pitched in Japan and they're not as good over there" argument - is plain dumb. His stuff's fantastic according to all scouting reports, his numbers are better, and his body hasn't shown serious signs of breaking under the pressure. At his age on this market with the way money is being thrown around, it's a calculated risk, but it's got a huge payoff. If I had the money for both, I'd rather spend $80 million on Matusaka than $48 on Ted Lilly.

The reason I wrote that about dominating mlb batter his whole career is because you can't call him better then Schmidt or Zito until he's done that (which they have). That's my point. You can see prospects and say "hey, so and so's got upside" or you can hear a ton from the scouts regarding their ability but at the end of the day you can't call them better then a proven MLB pitcher until they prove it on the MLB level. It has nothing to do with worth because the market is crazy and I'm not saying this kid isn't worth every penny he's going to receive. What I am trying to say is that he's not worth as much as a Zito who's only 2 years older, has a CY Young, and out-dueled Johan Santana in a game no one gave the A's a chance to win in. I'm not saying this kid won't be a gem and in the long run won't be better then Zito but right now you have to say Zito's worth more because he's a better pitcher. Matsuzaka might have better stuff and might light up the radar gun but until he proves it on this level you have to say the proven commodity is worth more then the unproven!

 

[MikeO]

My main problem is basically how they use their money not always for themselves, but just to block the Redsox from getting a player or whatever. I wouldn't mind as much if you would go spend 200$ million and spend it the right way. Like i feel, which may not be correct, that you guys really didn't want Damon for whatever you signed him for (4 years/50 mill i believe) but you did it more so just so you could stick it to the Sox.

But the move that really pissed me off was the Gary Sheffield trade. That is just the yankees taking advantage of their money, you don't see no other team doing that, and i find that unfair. Signing a guy that you have NO intentions on keeping, just for the fact that you can trade him and don't care since money is no object.

Now every sox and yankee fan on this board proably feels differently on it then me. I don't care, this is how i feel about it, so go ahead bash me because i dont think about it as the "correct" way or whatever you way think of it as, which must be the right way to view the statement "Evil Empire"

1) Yes we DID want Damon. The year before we didn't have a centerfielder. We were playing Bubba Crosby who can't hit. Or moving Hideki out of position and have him looking lost in CF. Damon is a legit leadoff hitter, a good glove and a guy who can hit 20 home runs and steal 20 bases. For you to think we ONLY signed him to screw Boston is crazy!!!!!!!!!!

2)Sheffield was already signed!!!!!!! The Yanks just picked up his option and traded him. That is done all the time in this sport!! It was part of the contract Sheff signed years back. The Yanks didn't do anything wrong.

3) And please give me 1 example of 1 player (just 1) that NY used their money to BLOCK Boston from getting. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is you just looking to paint up and draw up an image of the 'big bad yankees".

I'm not going to bash ya but I think your delusional about this stuff. And when I bring up 2nd city mentality, you just painted the perfect picture of it. I mean upset the Yanks signed Damon, hey if your team wanted him should have paid him. Now ya can't cry that he left for more $$$$$! And the Yanks don't BLOCK anyone from going anywhere. Odds are its a good player and NY is willing to pay more $$$. And please name, who has NY ever BLOCKED from going to Boston......................

 

[UCFinfan86]

1) Yes we DID want Damon. The year before we didn't have a centerfielder. We were playing Bubba Crosby who can't hit. Or moving Hideki out of position and have him looking lost in CF. Damon is a legit leadoff hitter, a good glove and a guy who can hit 20 home runs and steal 20 bases. For you to think we ONLY signed him to screw Boston is crazy!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't say you didnt want damon, but i said i dont think you wanted him fo 12 million a year. I didn't care the Redsox didn't sign him

 

[tucker]

hopefully he loses most of his games so i can hear red sox fans freak out

 

[UCFinfan86]

3) And please give me 1 example of 1 player (just 1) that NY used their money to BLOCK Boston from getting. IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is you just looking to paint up and draw up an image of the 'big bad yankees".

The yankees have never came out and publicly and did it, but like sheffield for example, there where rumors that the Redsox were going after him(not that i want him), now did they do it so the Redsox couldn't sign him? Proably not entirely, but to some extent? maybe

And when did i say anything at all about 2nd city mentality?? Someone mentioned something about Redsox fans view of Evil Empire or something, thats not 2nd city mentality

 

[UCFinfan86]

MikeO, i gave you my view of why the yankees are considered the "Evil Empire", albeit in your eyes its not correct, but i would like to see what you think, is it just because of the payroll?