Rishard Matthews | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Rishard Matthews

meh if Rishard passes Gibson good for him, but I expect both to contribute.

I still don't understand why so many people are against Gibson. Even at his deal, it's not a big or cap crippling deal. Now had we given him the original deal reported (one similar to Hartline) I'd be pissed.

Either way, Matthews' improvement speaks volumes for his work ethic. Sure he made the team last year, but IMO that was more because of what others didn't do rather than what he did. Sure he performed a bit in preseason BUT I literally think he was the only WR not given a run with the first team during preseason. I know I saw Fuller, Pruitt, Wallace, Naanne, Cunningham, Gates, and Moore all get time with Tannehill last preseason, but I don't recall Matthews ever getting run except late in the game.
 
I personally have never understood that stat that gets thrown around, the percentage of wide receiver's catches that went for 1st downs. I'm not sure people that throw that stat around understand it, either.
 
I personally have never understood that stat that gets thrown around, the percentage of wide receiver's catches that went for 1st downs. I'm not sure people that throw that stat around understand it, either.

I agree. It sounds impressive but it penalizes production in many cases. First downs, plays after penalties, sideline routes, etc. Often are designed for a completion that falls short of a first down. Many times it is wise to take what the defense gives you rather than to force a longer throw. Those things work against that stat.
 
Nothing really to say here other than Matthews is going to be good
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Either way, Matthews' improvement speaks volumes for his work ethic.

One thing I've read about him on more than one occasion is that he's a guy with a good attitude, and a very high drive to succeed. When we drafted him, I think it was Slimm who pointed out that Matthews was absolutely laying himself out for poorly thrown balls at the Combine.

There was a Memorial Day blurb on the Dolphins' official website and it turns out he is the son of a drill instructor. It all makes sense now.
 
I agree. It sounds impressive but it penalizes production in many cases. First downs, plays after penalties, sideline routes, etc. Often are designed for a completion that falls short of a first down. Many times it is wise to take what the defense gives you rather than to force a longer throw. Those things work against that stat.

It's going to be an extension of yards per catch. If you're averaging 13 yards per catch then obviously a large percentage of your catches will be first downs.

This also makes it apples-to-oranges when you're looking at a perimeter receiver versus a slot receiver. Perimeter receivers and slot receivers have slightly different yards per ATTEMPT but much more widely variant yards per CATCH and catch percentages. Slot receivers catch a higher percentage of the balls thrown to them, which is not reflected in a 1st down percentage number at all, but in turn they have a lower yards per completion which absolutely DOES reflect in the 1st down percentage. A guy with 11 yards per completion (about normal for a slot receiver) is going to have a much lower 1st down percentage than a guy with a 13 yards per completion average (more normal for the perimeter). But that doesn't tell you how valuable one is versus the other. The guy in the slot could be averaging 9 or 10 yards per attempt while the guy on the perimeter could be averaging only 6 yards per attempt, and none of that would reflect in the 1st down percentage.

Something I noticed about Brandon Gibson in 2012 was that he wasn't getting open very often, but eerily when he was getting open Sam Bradford found him. Two stats that I personally like to pay attention to in a receiver are yards per attempt and yards per route. They're correlated, but they can also vary and the variance can help support the film observations. Brandon Gibson's yards per attempt figure in 2012 was at 9.2, which is good. Not great, but solid. However, his yards per route were only at 1.47 which is really below average. When you see this kind of discrepancy, you have to look at the film. Sometimes you see the receiver getting open a lot and your conclusion ends up that he's got a low yards per snap because the quarterback just isn't finding him. I default to this assumption more often than not until I get a chance to look at the film.

But when I looked at Gibson's film I wasn't happy at all with how often he was getting open or creating separation. I came to think the reason for the discrepancy is because he's not getting open very often. When he does, and the quarterback threw it, he was on target with a lot of his throws and the receiver reliably caught the football. For instance if you go back to 2008 with Chad Pennington throwing the ball in Miami, even Ted Ginn managed an 8.3 yards per attempt figure, whereas career-wise Ginn is more like a 6.0 kind of player (poor). He wasn't necessarily open that often but when he was, Pennington found him and got the football to him accurately. Gibson's yards per attempt leading into 2012 were 5.5 in 2009, 7.2 in 2010 and 6.6 in 2011...about 6.5 yards per attempt over the period. No doubt he improved as a football player in his fourth season and that probably accounts for some of the improvement, but when I watch the film and see him not getting open very often and then I look at the yards per route, it makes me think a good part of that sudden spike was due to a combination of Sam Bradford's improvement and some randomness owing to sample size.

Bottom line, I watched a lot of film on the guy and wasn't all that impressed. Dress it up all you want, comes down to that.
 
If so, wouldn't Gibson be a subpar option as a no.4?

You think Gibson isn't even worthy of the 4th spot? Headscratcher there. Not sure how a guy who had 75 receptions and 5 td's isn't worthy of a 4th receiver spot. I guess Binns impressed more :-)

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
 
we're making a mistake making brandon gibson the primary slot...don't know who's decided it but when he and tannehill aren't on the same page on some stuff come games that matter we'll have the evidence...

i'm not even sure the guy can get open quickly and get off coverage in tight spaces...pretty critical for the slot...will be an interesting watch in camp...i sure hope bumphis gets a shot to show what he's got in there...
 
on the mathews front i don't think the plan or the vision is to eventually make him the primary slot...at least i don't think it's the best idea...i think the vision is to be our version of james jones in miami...and i think his skill set is similar...not a burner but the ability to get vertical tough physical win wr in some settings... i think he's viewed as a red zone win option that will be on the field and also a guy that we feel confident can defeat the oppositions 3rd and 4th corners or nickle if a starting db shifts inside in the nickle package...i expect his yards per catch to be rather high cause i expect him to run more down the field routes like a james jones...who's targets and production are a lot about the teams belief that he has a win matchup with some of the sub corners etc of the opposition...

i see james jones in rishard mathews...a guy who can win physically on the outside and in short areas like the red zone be a physical mismatch for dbs
 
we're making a mistake making brandon gibson the primary slot...don't know who's decided it but when he and tannehill aren't on the same page on some stuff come games that matter we'll have the evidence...

i'm not even sure the guy can get open quickly and get off coverage in tight spaces...pretty critical for the slot...will be an interesting watch in camp...i sure hope bumphis gets a shot to show what he's got in there...

While I agree with you, I will not be at all surprised if he ends up primarily rotating in as a wide out. We could end up using our TE's and Matthews underneath quite a bit. I will also not be surprised if we send the RB out significantly more this season. Tannehill has a better grasp on the full offense than he did last year, so we have more options.
 
I personally have never understood that stat that gets thrown around, the percentage of wide receiver's catches that went for 1st downs. I'm not sure people that throw that stat around understand it, either.

I agree. It sounds impressive but it penalizes production in many cases. First downs, plays after penalties, sideline routes, etc. Often are designed for a completion that falls short of a first down. Many times it is wise to take what the defense gives you rather than to force a longer throw. Those things work against that stat.

Something I noticed about Brandon Gibson in 2012 was that he wasn't getting open very often, but eerily when he was getting open Sam Bradford found him. Two stats that I personally like to pay attention to in a receiver are yards per attempt and yards per route. They're correlated, but they can also vary and the variance can help support the film observations. Brandon Gibson's yards per attempt figure in 2012 was at 9.2, which is good. Not great, but solid. However, his yards per route were only at 1.47 which is really below average. When you see this kind of discrepancy, you have to look at the film. Sometimes you see the receiver getting open a lot and your conclusion ends up that he's got a low yards per snap because the quarterback just isn't finding him. I default to this assumption more often than not until I get a chance to look at the film.

It looks like you guys have put in alot of time studying Gibson and made your conclusions based on logic and evidence. Unfortunately, we all see how flawed the methods you used were.

One guy in here gets it. Shouright, whats Gibson's WPA? Cant be better then Bess' but still should be amazing. Better get on that brother.
 
It looks like you guys have put in alot of time studying Gibson and made your conclusions based on logic and evidence. Unfortunately, we all see how flawed the methods you used were.

One guy in here gets it. Shouright, whats Gibson's WPA? Cant be better then Bess' but still should be amazing. Better get on that brother.

The royal 'we'?
 
The one thing that always sticks to me about something Philbin said in a media thing was he wanted more size in the slot. I think thats why Gibson and Matthews will get their fair chance to win that job over the smaller quicker guys.
 
Back
Top Bottom