Russ Lande(former scout) on the rookies | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Russ Lande(former scout) on the rookies

So based on college numbers shouldnt these guys have been very high picks. College numbers do not equate to drafting high.

Graham Harrel 134 td passes 2nd all time in passing yards
Ty Detmer former all time passing leader 16276 passing yards 127 td passes
Colt Brennan 146 tds total passing and running, 14000 passing yards 70 percent completion
Mike Hart 5000 rushing yards
Tim Chang 17000 passing yards 131 tds passing

Historically the college stats that seem to matter most are number of starts and completion percentage.

Pat White has both in his favor.

He also, as has been stated, won 5 out of 5 bowl games, and amazingly was selected MVP in 4 of them.
 
Historically the college stats that seem to matter most are number of starts and completion percentage.

Pat White has both in his favor.

He also, as has been stated, won 5 out of 5 bowl games, and amazingly was selected MVP in 4 of them.

people have already made up their mind that he is a waste of a draft pick before he's ever suited up....do you really think that anything you can present to them will change their mind?

Even when/if he starts producing there will be a "great, but......."
 
people have already made up their mind that he is a waste of a draft pick before he's ever suited up....do you really think that anything you can present to them will change their mind?

Even when/if he starts producing there will be a "great, but......."


People always have opinions on players
 
Well as a fan...one can appreciate that...but what I or you want has no importance...now does it.

The important issue is that the Dolphins saw something in him....just like the Pats did...and to me as a fan...thats the issue that matters to me.

actually no proof that the pats saw anything in him as they passed on him three times in the second round
 
people have already made up their mind that he is a waste of a draft pick before he's ever suited up....do you really think that anything you can present to them will change their mind?

Even when/if he starts producing there will be a "great, but......."

Far more people have made up their minds he's going to reveloutionize the NFL.
 
I agree with all of that with the only x-factor being what if Pat White is good enough in the Wildcat to do EXACTLY as Russ Lande says, make the defense a step slow defending against the other players?

Make no mistake, the Wildcat won the Dolphins some football games. If Pat White's presence makes the Wildcat sharper, or even just keeps the rest of the league from catching up to it, then it means selecting Pat White won the Dolphins games too. Any pick that provides the delta between winning and losing multiple games, should be considered a successful pick.


i see the wildcat as something that will diminish the more you use it and once White is taking the snap isnt just playing against a running qb with an unbalanced line. In the longterm I see the wildcat as something that will actually make the offense less cohesive and in no way think its better to have a rookie qb on the field over Chad Pennington. I dont see Pat White constantly running in the NFL and taking hits at his size.
 
Far more people have made up their minds he's going to reveloutionize the NFL.

really....maybe you guys are just more vocal...cause I haven't seen as much of that around here. I know a lot of people like the pick, and are excited about what he might bring to the offense...but revolutionizing the game?? If so, they are being equally presumptuous IMO.
 
really....maybe you guys are just more vocal...cause I haven't seen as much of that around here. I know a lot of people like the pick, and are excited about what he might bring to the offense...but revolutionizing the game?? If so, they are being equally presumptuous IMO.


I think Im just having an educated opinion. I might be wrong and will b glad for it. I just dont like the odds of a six foot qb at 196 pounds running constantly versus NFL size players. If Vince Young has struggled dont see how Pat White will be so refined.
 
i see the wildcat as something that will diminish the more you use it and once White is taking the snap isnt just playing against a running qb with an unbalanced line. In the longterm I see the wildcat as something that will actually make the offense less cohesive and in no way think its better to have a rookie qb on the field over Chad Pennington. I dont see Pat White constantly running in the NFL and taking hits at his size.

There wouldn't be any "constantly" about it. Make no mistake the Wildcat was only 10% of the Dolphins' playbook in 2008 and if it increases at all in 2009 it would probably cap out at about 15% or MAYBE 20% (but I doubt it).

I guess I see the argument that continuing to use the Wildcat can detract from cohesion in the regular offense, but we've yet to see that factor into anything. Meanwhile, preparing for the Wildcat can take a defense a full day of practice, where the Dolphins only have to spend 20 minutes installing a Wildcat play.

I think that's really the biggest thing. These spread concepts have worked wonderfully at the college level and truly changed the nature of the game. I remember people saying when Urban Meyer came to Florida that his concepts would not work at the SEC level because the athletes there are too good. Well, two National Championships later, it's obvious his concepts have worked even at that elite level of speed and talent.

I'm not going so far as to say an offense entirely based on those principles could work at the NFL level, but if an NFL team does not prepare for them, then they can get hit up for costly game-changing plays (see plays against New England, San Diego, Houston and Seattle). So, they're forced to prepare for the offense. And, when you force them to prepare for that, you can start adding other wrinkles to your base offense that maybe they didn't have time to prepare for.

Back when Bill Belichick was known as a defensive genius and mastermind, isn't this what he did on the defensive side of the ball? He employed a 3-4 defense that was out of favor with basically the entire league (only 2 or 3 teams ran it at the time). He often went to really strange, almost gimmicky formations. Seven linebackers? That's Belichick for ya. How about Terrell Buckley playing a linebacker position? Belichick. Chad Cascadden missiling into an offensive lineman so that Mo Lewis can follow right through and sack the quarterback? Belichick. I remember back then the players always use to talk about how they couldn't wait to get the game plan from him each week because they knew there would always be some new and odd wrinkle that teams aren't prepared for.

So why shouldn't Miami strive for the same thing? And if Pat White's addition holds the rest of the NFL off from catching up to the Wildcat for even just one year, providing the delta on two or three more wins...then his selection was worth it.
 
There wouldn't be any "constantly" about it. Make no mistake the Wildcat was only 10% of the Dolphins' playbook in 2008 and if it increases at all in 2009 it would probably cap out at about 15% or MAYBE 20% (but I doubt it).

I guess I see the argument that continuing to use the Wildcat can detract from cohesion in the regular offense, but we've yet to see that factor into anything. Meanwhile, preparing for the Wildcat can take a defense a full day of practice, where the Dolphins only have to spend 20 minutes installing a Wildcat play.

I think that's really the biggest thing. These spread concepts have worked wonderfully at the college level and truly changed the nature of the game. I remember people saying when Urban Meyer came to Florida that his concepts would not work at the SEC level because the athletes there are too good. Well, two National Championships later, it's obvious his concepts have worked even at that elite level of speed and talent.

I'm not going so far as to say an offense entirely based on those principles could work at the NFL level, but if an NFL team does not prepare for them, then they can get hit up for costly game-changing plays (see plays against New England, San Diego, Houston and Seattle). So, they're forced to prepare for the offense. And, when you force them to prepare for that, you can start adding other wrinkles to your base offense that maybe they didn't have time to prepare for.

Back when Bill Belichick was known as a defensive genius and mastermind, isn't this what he did on the defensive side of the ball? He employed a 3-4 defense that was out of favor with basically the entire league (only 2 or 3 teams ran it at the time). He often went to really strange, almost gimmicky formations. Seven linebackers? That's Belichick for ya. How about Terrell Buckley playing a linebacker position? Belichick. Chad Cascadden missiling into an offensive lineman so that Mo Lewis can follow right through and sack the quarterback? Belichick. I remember back then the players always use to talk about how they couldn't wait to get the game plan from him each week because they knew there would always be some new and odd wrinkle that teams aren't prepared for.

So why shouldn't Miami strive for the same thing? And if Pat White's addition holds the rest of the NFL off from catching up to the Wildcat for even just one year, providing the delta on two or three more wins...then his selection was worth it.


I just dont see Pat white being that skilled as a rookie to make that kind of impact. More likely he will play like a rookie and make some major mistakes. I personally if I was a defensive coordinator would much rather face Pat White than Chad Pennington. Hey if Im wrong them its better for the Phins. Also this crap about lining up White at receiver and him taking a reverse, do people think that defenses ignore any player that just turns around for a reverse. I just think Pat White was a helluva college football player much like Major Harris was.
 
I think Im just having an educated opinion. I might be wrong and will b glad for it. I just dont like the odds of a six foot qb at 196 pounds running constantly versus NFL size players. If Vince Young has struggled dont see how Pat White will be so refined.

Mike Vick isn't much bigger.....he did ok (not trying to start THAT debate...but so I think we can settle on 'ok' more or less). Vince Young was rookie of the year and a Pro Bowler, no? His problems are mostly upstairs, so I don't really see that comparison.

But I think that each could have been VERY effective in our wildcat, which is all Pat White has to be initially, and he can grow into the rest...which of course is a crap shoot (but we know that about drafting ANY QB, right?)
 
Historically the college stats that seem to matter most are number of starts and completion percentage.

Pat White has both in his favor.

He also, as has been stated, won 5 out of 5 bowl games, and amazingly was selected MVP in 4 of them.


Harrel, Detmer and Brennan all had alot of starts and high completion percentage.
 
Mike Vick isn't much bigger.....he did ok (not trying to start THAT debate...but so I think we can settle on 'ok' more or less). Vince Young was rookie of the year and a Pro Bowler, no? His problems are mostly upstairs, so I don't really see that comparison.

But I think that each could have been VERY effective in our wildcat, which is all Pat White has to be initially, and he can grow into the rest...which of course is a crap shoot (but we know that about drafting ANY QB, right?)


Vick was 20 pounds heavier and all muscle. Well we have perfected crap shoot in the second round with qb's. The good teams over time take crap shoots much later on qb NE for example with Brady and Cassel.
 
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