The lawsuit will be against NFL not the Dolphins,hazing is a legal form of bullying.

[Spesh]

He may be building a case but that does not mean that it is the truth. The lawyers might see Martin with patty hearst syndrome but it may just be as these players have described and they were friends before MArtin left. We know nothing of Martin's mental state before during or after he was drafted by the Fins, perhaps he is misinterpreting this whole thing, who knows until the league lets out ALL the info.

I actually agree, there isnt enough information to judge accurately. Im all for waiting. This is growing more and more by the day, its plausible more information could come out.

But i get a laugh at those who do a touchdown dance when the information conforms with their predetermined opinion but desperately search through loopholes when information goes against them. If they feel the need to call me out because ive spoken out in support of Martin's rights, then im game.

 

[z926538]

... who knows until the league lets out ALL the info.

The NFL investigation can not be trusted. They have an agenda and that is to protect themselves in the upcoming lawsuit that Jonathon Martin will be bringing against them, the Dolphins and Incognito.

 

[4th And Drunk]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/25/marine-letter-******s-boot-camp_n_3322214.html

Oh wait, thats the media, so it must be wrong.



http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marinejoin/a/marinebasic_4.htm

Dammit media, stop that.

Haha, tradoc? Thanks for confirming what I already believed. Those regulations are in place to appease soft mom's and dad's like you. Rest assured when he gets to the real Army, he's no longer protected by tradoc and I will turn that soft panty waste You gave me into a better son, a better father, a better husband, and a better killer. And I won't do it with political correctness or rainbows and sunshine. Welcome to the real world, where telling mommy and daddy you're being bullied is not an option, and it does not make you tough. I refer you to AR 600-20 which allows me to say whatever the F I want to your sons and daughters, and believe me, most of them need it.

 

[Spesh]

Most of what you consider evidence a reasonable person considers speculation, at this point. The only evidence you have is a drunk dial from probably two in the morning that happened over 6 months ago that the accuser laughed at and voluntary shared with teammates. The defense has 50+ eyewitnesses of a personal friendship and the fact that this "abuse" was never reported. A REASONABLE person will conclude given the lifestyle of an NFL athlete, as described by said eyewitnesses, it might be considered unfair to assume that Incognito knew what he was doing was affecting the accuser with no warning. Neither direct, indirect, or third party notification. Unless Martin has more, and he may, I think he easily loses.

This has been done to death, so i'll keep it brief: if its true the coaches directed Incognito at Martin, then Martin has an out. He wouldnt have had to report the abuse, because the harassment began "at the top". Admittedly, the "top" isnt really the top(line coaches are down on the totem pole), but its conceivable Martin felt like the harassment would not stop even if he reported it. It could be argued he felt it would get worse if he reported it. Intimidation, even implied, counts in these things. He has a case.

That said, your right about the third party notification. Thats the one thing that works against him, and its what the league/team needs to hammer away at. Martin didnt contact the union and file a grievance. Theres no way he can claim he didnt know thats what he had to do.
But even that has its holes. Not the least of which is the fact that the union also represents Incognito.

 

[Spesh]

Haha, tradoc? Thanks for confirming what I already believed. Those regulations are in place to appease soft mom's and dad's like you. Rest assured when he gets to the real Army, he's no longer protected by tradoc and I will turn that soft panty waste You gave me into a better son, a better father, a better husband, and a better killer. And I won't do it with political correctness or rainbows and sunshine. Welcome to the real world, where telling mommy and daddy you're being bullied is not an option, and it does not make you tough. I refer you to AR 600-20 which allows me to say whatever the F I want to your sons and daughters, and believe me, most of them need it.

In 2007, a Drill Instructor at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, Sergeant Jerrod M. Glass, was charged with 244 counts of recruit abuse. Shortly after, Sergeant Brian M. Wende, Sergeant Robert C. Hankins and Sergeant Mark A. Delarosa were brought up on similar or related charges.

For Sgt. Delarosa, one of his former recruits said he had been spit on and had been kicked in the shin during drill practice. Captain Patrick J. Callahan, part of Delarosa’s defense counsel, tried to claim that Delarosa simply cared about how his recruits would perform in battle in Iraq and made statements about how the Marines are not like the Air Force or Army. “We push these recruits. We say mean things to recruits.”

This is a poor example of DI behavior. There are strict guidelines about what is allowed and not allowed in boot camp and the rules and guidelines set forth in the standard operating procedure (SOP) are there partially to protect recruits.

http://marinecorpsrecruit.com/usmc-boot-camp-training/marine-corps-recruit-abuse/

Im not going to debate with you whether those things occur. Your the one with the experience, if you say they do then i wont argue against it. But, according to your own standards, they arent suppose to.

And running to daddy worked for Incognito. Still laughing that people try and run with that stigma 2 days after Incognito's father came in here throwing a hissy fit. Starting to think that will come to mind every time i jump on the forum. Damned amusing.

 

[raving]

So next we'll see lawsuits in military boot camp because the leaders were too rough on them....

The NFL trenches is a mini hand to hand combat with guild lines and rules.It's not for marshmallows like Martin.

That is exactly what is happening in the military! I am sure if you slow down and think about it - the purrrr purrrr afghani murderers who get the heads peed on get to sue - because they got their feelings insulted....Meanwhile these slimeballs murder babies and children and women.

RI was the perfect target for today's victim mentality - and this moment was inevitable as the NFL will get emasculated too - as it already is with the ridiculous penalties and idiotic reffing that destroys the quality of enjoyment.

 

[4th And Drunk]

http://marinecorpsrecruit.com/usmc-boot-camp-training/marine-corps-recruit-abuse/

Im not going to debate with you whether those things occur. Your the one with the experience, if you say they do then i wont argue against it. But, according to your own standards, they arent suppose to.

And running to daddy worked for Incognito. Still laughing that people try and run with that stigma 2 days after Incognito's father came in here throwing a hissy fit. Starting to think that will come to mind every time i jump on the forum. Damned amusing.

You're missing the point entirely. Not only is it happening, it's necessary. You drew the parallels between the Military. And again, you keep referring to Tradoc. Tradoc is not the military, but you couldn't possibly understand that.

 

[butta247]

http://marinecorpsrecruit.com/usmc-boot-camp-training/marine-corps-recruit-abuse/

Im not going to debate with you whether those things occur. Your the one with the experience, if you say they do then i wont argue against it. But, according to your own standards, they arent suppose to.

And running to daddy worked for Incognito. Still laughing that people try and run with that stigma 2 days after Incognito's father came in here throwing a hissy fit. Starting to think that will come to mind every time i jump on the forum. Damned amusing.

Why do you think incognito ran to his dad to get his dad to post in an Internet forum? Doesn't it make more sense that incognitos father was irate at the situation and went on a rampage all by himself?

This isn't critical thinking dude. I'm not a incognito supporter so I don't care what he or his dad says. You keep bring up how amusing this is when you are the only one amused.

 

[Cleetus]

The NFL investigation can not be trusted. They have an agenda and that is to protect themselves in the upcoming lawsuit that Jonathon Martin will be bringing against them, the Dolphins and Incognito.

While this may be true, I believe i heard that the league will be totally transparent in this case, therefore I want to see any evidence taken, interviews, past and present psychological history reports utilized, questions asked and questions not asked but should have been. If the NFL just releases a verdict and says no more hazing without giving reasons then I will be less likely to trust the results.

 

[butta247]

Yup. Probably because people are still calling him Big Weirdo.

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------



Dont need an eye witness, voice mail handles that nicely. Next?

So the context of a text message never needs to be fully understood on the given sutuation. Everything everyone texts or leaves in a voicemail should be taken literally.

 

[Spesh]

You're missing the point entirely. Not only is it happening, it's necessary. You drew the parallels between the Military. And again, you keep referring to Tradoc. Tradoc is not the military, but you couldn't possibly understand that.

I drew no parallels between the Military and the NFL. Phindog did. I responded you guys have had lawsuits and have been told to cut it off(well okay, let me hedge, i praised the military for being tough bastards and felt you guys have found a way to become tough bastards through means other then what your own standards refer to as "abuse"). Your saying not only they havent cut it off, but its necessary. I'll take back the "cut it off" part, though the lawsuits are there for everyone to see. If you guys are beating up on recruits and its saving lives, then fair enough.

But Jonathan Martin is a civilian working for an American company and he has the right to earn a living without being put through the ringer by an idiot who occasionally threatens his life and extorts money from him. It doesnt matter if you felt he wasnt tough enough, it doesnt matter if you felt he shouldnt have taken it seriously. He did, and he has the right to report this crap.
Again, a locker room isnt sovereign territory where you can do whatever the **** you want without any consequences whatsoever. You can think should have been made to gargle razor blades, but other teams have no problem toughing up their young players without breaking them. We screwed up. Probably because we put a moron with a history of issues in charge of the process.

 

[Spesh]

Why do you think incognito ran to his dad to get his dad to post in an Internet forum? Doesn't it make more sense that incognitos father was irate at the situation and went on a rampage all by himself?

This isn't critical thinking dude. I'm not a incognito supporter so I don't care what he or his dad says. You keep bring up how amusing this is when you are the only one amused. When you are the only one that thinks it's amusing everyone else thinks your an idiot for continuing to be amused by it

He ran to his daddy to get patted on the back through a difficult time. His papa went off on his drunken stupor all on his own. I've said this before to you.

Yes, the amusement i am referring to is my own. Correct.

People can view me however they want. Thats the thing: i dont need outside validation. There are people who do need that sort of thing. They repeatedly go after others in an effort to obtain pleasure or comfort about themselves. Theres a name for people like that: sadist. I think we should change that though and just start referring to it as "Incognito". People will be able to make the connection.

 

[Canadianfishfan]

I drew no parallels between the Military and the NFL. Phindog did. I responded you guys have had lawsuits and have been told to cut it off(well okay, let me hedge, i praised the military for being tough bastards and felt you guys have found a way to become tough bastards through means other then what your own standards refer to as "abuse"). Your saying not only they havent cut it off, but its necessary. I'll take back the "cut it off" part, though the lawsuits are there for everyone to see. If you guys are beating up on recruits and its saving lives, then fair enough.

But Jonathan Martin is a civilian working for an American company and he has the right to earn a living without being put through the ringer by an idiot who occasionally threatens his life and extorts money from him. It doesnt matter if you felt he wasnt tough enough, it doesnt matter if you felt he shouldnt have taken it seriously. He did, and he has the right to report this crap.
Again, a locker room isnt sovereign territory where you can do whatever the **** you want without any consequences whatsoever. You can think should have been made to gargle razor blades, but other teams have no problem toughing up their young players without breaking them. We screwed up. Probably because we put a moron with a history of issues in charge of the process.

Have you ever played in an NFL locker room?

If not, who are you to say what the rules should be.

Please, spare me legal shenanigans. Players, the Union, coaches, teams, everyone, had NO PROBLEM with what was happening up until this Martin fiasco. Hazing rituals were included in every Hard Knocks season from what I remember. so let's not be hypocritical here.

A man had a mental relapse under the pressure of professional sports. Won't be the first or last time. Another man had a mental lapse in judgement.

All being fair... do they both not deserve assistance and help. Isn't each man worthy of forgiveness? Who are you to throw stones?

Let the players decide who they want to go to battle with. You and I aren't risking out health and well being every weekend for financial gain and our amusement.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Richie and his family are clowns, but :sidelol: at this conversation. Calling your dad to tell him you just got suspended 4 games without pay and that your career is ruined, clearly a case of 'running to daddy to get patted on the back.'

 

[butta247]

I drew no parallels between the Military and the NFL. Phindog did. I responded you guys have had lawsuits and have been told to cut it off(well okay, let me hedge, i praised the military for being tough bastards and felt you guys have found a way to become tough bastards through means other then what your own standards refer to as "abuse"). Your saying not only they havent cut it off, but its necessary. I'll take back the "cut it off" part, though the lawsuits are there for everyone to see. If you guys are beating up on recruits and its saving lives, then fair enough.

But Jonathan Martin is a civilian working for an American company and he has the right to earn a living without being put through the ringer by an idiot who occasionally threatens his life and extorts money from him. It doesnt matter if you felt he wasnt tough enough, it doesnt matter if you felt he shouldnt have taken it seriously. He did, and he has the right to report this crap.
Again, a locker room isnt sovereign territory where you can do whatever the **** you want without any consequences whatsoever. You can think should have been made to gargle razor blades, but other teams have no problem toughing up their young players without breaking them. We screwed up. Probably because we put a moron with a history of issues in charge of the process.

Your missing the whole point. We all agree he has the right to report the issue. Fine . Great. Go to coach and if it continues then report it to the authorities.

What pisses everyone off is he purposefully withheld the information from team management only to blow the roof off through the national media. That's a piece of **** and worse than anything Martin said to him. Remember we are only talking about WORDS. Not beating recruits.....geez man...I don't see how you keep defending a coward action. Yes only a coward would not tell the coach.