ArmyFin7
U cry about the $$$, we do the dirtywork
Elvis Dummerville....isn't he sub 6'??
Todd McShay's Mock Draft
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Pachyderm_Wave
Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ
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Yep..which is a huge reason he was a 4th round pick.....
..and Woodley was a 2nd round pick.....I believe Woodley measured in under 6'1" at the combine...
Which is why I don't neccessarily understand the thought process behind leaving guys completely off your draft board based on height...as Parcells does..
What sense does it make to pass up on players like Eric Norwood who is CLEARLY an absolute stud defensive player when you watch him on film in favor of a handful of guys like Bobby Carpenter and/or Vernon Gholston, for example.... just because they're taller...
I understand not wanting to sacrifice height....but not at the expense of sacrificing talent...
totally agree with that train of thought. writing someone off b/c they don't meet your height demands confuses the hell out of me. and norwood is my 2nd favorite OLB of the bunch - but that's not saying a whole lot.
Norwood would be my 3rd or 4th favorite. I think Kindle is a better overall player, but Norwood is much better at penetrating. So, I could go either way. Also, Kindle will go much earlier in the draft, so Norwood will be cheaper.
hoops
Tua time!
i agree with that as well regarding talent should trump guys not meeting some requirements...but that's this front office's thing...i know it's parcells
kindle isn't bad. his lack of production this year scares me a little bit though. his only 3 sacks were against texas tech, utep, and UCF - not exactly offensive powerhouses. no way would i spend a first on him - and i'm even hesitant to use a 2nd on him - and he'll easily go in the first 2 rounds - probably the 1st. i personally want an ILB in the 1st and one of those pure cover safeties in the 2nd.
hoops
Tua time!
i haven't seen much of kindle yet but i don't like his lack of production this year either...
Looking at available players, Berry is the only FS I see worth drafting in the first 2 rounds, and he obviously won't be there. I think Clemons will be a good FS. Also, I'm just as high on Micah Johnson as I am on Spikes or McClain, and McClain won't be there when we draft in the 1st. Micah Johnson might not be there in the 3rd. We'll see. But, even in the 2nd, I think he's a better value than either Spikes or McClain in the 1st.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
A couple of things.
1. Cameron Wake is a superb athlete with a lot of strength, balance and burst. If you take his hands out of the dirt and give him enough reps I'm sure he'd be fine. And you can always put his hand in the dirt on occasion even though he has literally the same exact responsibilities in the 3-4 that you would normally give Joey Porter.
2. Lamarr Woodley showed up at the Combine 6 feet, 1.5 inches.
3. Demanding height in your outside linebackers is all about dominating the tight end and the quarterback. Height and wingspan combined with a player that naturally reads the quarterback's eyes is a deadly combination. A taller player is just a more imposing player. It's not ALWAYS right but no single draft strategy is always right or even obviously right. But this is the strategy Parcells has adhered to for a long time and he's built plenty of winners so...I'm not gonna call him a fool over it.
4. Nobody will trade us anything significant for Joey Porter in the off season, regardless of how popular the 3-4 has become. He's old, having a sub-par year and he's a very highly paid man. Bad combination.
5. Trading Phil Merling would not at all be "astronomically stupid" IMO...but, at the same time he's young, he can play in the rotation, relatively inexpensive, and he keeps his mouth shut. If we were to trade him, it would really have to be a thing where someone came with an offer we just couldn't refuse, like a first round pick or a high second rounder. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense because what exactly does trading valuable young depth like him for an even younger player accomplish? I don't believe Merling will ever be a career starter for this team but I can't say as I'd be surprised if somehow it still ended up working out that way. He's got about as much chance of making that happen as a third round draft pick would. Not all of them pan out, look at Pat Turner (so far).
5. Not the biggest fan of Norwood, or Kindle.
1. Cameron Wake is a superb athlete with a lot of strength, balance and burst. If you take his hands out of the dirt and give him enough reps I'm sure he'd be fine. And you can always put his hand in the dirt on occasion even though he has literally the same exact responsibilities in the 3-4 that you would normally give Joey Porter.
2. Lamarr Woodley showed up at the Combine 6 feet, 1.5 inches.
3. Demanding height in your outside linebackers is all about dominating the tight end and the quarterback. Height and wingspan combined with a player that naturally reads the quarterback's eyes is a deadly combination. A taller player is just a more imposing player. It's not ALWAYS right but no single draft strategy is always right or even obviously right. But this is the strategy Parcells has adhered to for a long time and he's built plenty of winners so...I'm not gonna call him a fool over it.
4. Nobody will trade us anything significant for Joey Porter in the off season, regardless of how popular the 3-4 has become. He's old, having a sub-par year and he's a very highly paid man. Bad combination.
5. Trading Phil Merling would not at all be "astronomically stupid" IMO...but, at the same time he's young, he can play in the rotation, relatively inexpensive, and he keeps his mouth shut. If we were to trade him, it would really have to be a thing where someone came with an offer we just couldn't refuse, like a first round pick or a high second rounder. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense because what exactly does trading valuable young depth like him for an even younger player accomplish? I don't believe Merling will ever be a career starter for this team but I can't say as I'd be surprised if somehow it still ended up working out that way. He's got about as much chance of making that happen as a third round draft pick would. Not all of them pan out, look at Pat Turner (so far).
5. Not the biggest fan of Norwood, or Kindle.
as for points 4 and 5. i don't know what you're considering significant but i don't think getting a measly 4th - or maybe even 3rd - for someone with 25 sacks (probably more than seasons end) in the last 2 years is that far off. didn't we just get a 2nd and 6th rounder for a 33 year old taylor just a few years ago? how is wanting a 3rd or 4th for porter - who is 32 and at least as productive - that far off? i don't get your logic at all there Ck.
as for 5, i was saying getting rid of merling for a 3rd rounder was astronomically stupid. for a 1st? are you kidding me? send him on his way. i'm higher on merling than you are but you can't pass up value like that.
as for 5, i was saying getting rid of merling for a 3rd rounder was astronomically stupid. for a 1st? are you kidding me? send him on his way. i'm higher on merling than you are but you can't pass up value like that.
earl thomas is absolutely worth taking in the first 2 rounds. the guys got 8 picks this year and is phenomenal in coverage. he's the pure cover safety we've been missing. nate allen is pretty damn good in coverage as well - while a 2nd rounder may be too high - that's where he'll probably end up and i wouldn't be too upset. i like darrell stuckey a lot as well - who could be had in the 4th or 5th.
i like johnson too - but the drop off from mcclain and spikes to johnson is a ton. spikes and mcclain are head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. i don't know how anyone could think otherwise having watched them all play. johnson is one of 4 ILB's that i think could play in the 3-4 though. jamar chaney is the other one - but apparently we won't even look at him b/c of his height. so if we pass on spikes - i would be happy with johnson in the 3rd.
Johnson tackles better than McClain and Spikes. He's faster than Spikes. He's solid in coverage and makes big plays. And, he's a better athlete than either - though, not as big as McClain.
These are all observations based on a limited amount of footage on Johnson, but I think he's being sold short because the other players come from real "football schools."
ckparrothead
Premium Member
It's very far off. That's just how the NFL works. They don't trade high picks for old players that are always battling knee injuries week-in and week-out, and have huge contracts due to a venture into free agency a few years ago.
Sorry, but the offers won't be coming in. High contracts kill these kinds of possibilities.
Taylor had battled no recent injuries to that point, and the Redskins ended up desperate due to injuries (and stupidity). Plus, Taylor was known as an ideal teammate, a leader, a guy that doesn't speak out or do things that frustrate the coaches, etc. He was coming off a better two-year stretch than Joey Porter, as well. His 2006 season was better than Porter's 2008 season, and his 2007 season was better than Porter's 2009 season. To that point in Jason's career, he'd just always been a fantastic player, too. On the other hand, Pittsburgh actually CUT Joey Porter because they thought he was old and not worth keeping around for a mere $5 million. Miami picked him up and immediately he went out and had a poor season. Then he had a great season and now he's hurt all the time and having another so-so year. For Jason Taylor, a so-so season would have been an anomaly. For Joey Porter, the GREAT season was the anomaly.
Go ahead and hold your breath waiting for an offer for Joey Porter. I'll be sure to call an ambulance for you.
I would also think about getting rid of him for a 2nd rounder or even a future 2nd rounder. A future 1st round be excellent. In fact if I were the front office I would start trading away present picks for future ones. Those future draft pick salaries should be cheaper, hence the picks are worth more.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Nate Allen is pretty damn inconsistent is what he is. I've been watching the guy in person at Ray Jay stadium for years.
fair enough. i don't see how at least one team wouldn't take a chance with joey for a 4th - crazier things have happened - but thanks for the explanation. go ahead and keep the ambulance on hold for me - for now.
i personally like merling and would want him to stay. i would love to get a 1st for him - and wouldn't necessarily be upset with parting with him for a 2nd - but losing value with him (a 3rd) would be dumb. that's all i was saying. i love how fluid his movement is - especially in his hips, his lateral movement, his agility, how he uses his hands, and how he's equally good against the run and pass - but that's just me.