Who the heck overrates backup defesnive lineman Vaughn Martin?
What are the most overrated and underrated dolphins in your opinion
- Thread starter dlockz
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Who the heck overrates backup defesnive lineman Vaughn Martin?
KTOWNFINFAN
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I would have to disagree with your opinion of Hartline's rep around here. I feel I look at Hartline like most here at Finheaven and I certainly wouldn't say he was one of the better 2nd WRs in the LEAGUE. I would rate him some where between 12- 15, not as 12 - 15th best WRs in the league, but 12-15th best #2 in the league.
I have never heard/saw anyone here say that Hartline gives us the best 1-2 set of WRs in the league, or even top 5, I do however feel that we have the best 1-2 in the AFC east.
where's th'fish
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Most overrated: Reggie Bush
Most underrated: Sean Smith, Fasano
I got nothing else. It's such a loaded question, since we never agree on anything here. Or are we talking in comparison to the national media? If so, then:
Most overrated: Reggie Bush
Most underrated: Tannehill
Most underrated: Sean Smith, Fasano
I got nothing else. It's such a loaded question, since we never agree on anything here. Or are we talking in comparison to the national media? If so, then:
Most overrated: Reggie Bush
Most underrated: Tannehill
Pachyderm_Wave
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Overrated: Chris Clemons, Lamar Miller
(Honorable Mention: Ryan Tannehill)
Underrated: Rishard Matthews, Matt Moore.
(Honorable Mention: Brandon Fields)
(Honorable Mention: Ryan Tannehill)
Underrated: Rishard Matthews, Matt Moore.
(Honorable Mention: Brandon Fields)
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Pretty easy. Egnew's name is absolute dirt on this forum and with most Dolphins fans, and it's for no other reason than about 60 seconds' worth of footage on Hard Knocks in which a coach yelled at him (which happens every day to a bunch of players) and a preseason montage that made it LOOK like Egnew dropped a bunch of passes whereas in actuality he only dropped 2 passes in the preseason. The other passes were poorly thrown or knocked away by a defender. People make jokes about his blocking, yet can't recall a single block he missed. The Dolphins run a hurry up offense, especially in practice. It's a very sink-or-swim teaching tool and unfortunately as a teaching tool it's not going to work best on every type of player, especially on offense. Many players learn different ways. That doesn't mean they can't learn. You saw guys in 2012 that just weren't getting things very quickly and as a result the coaches wouldn't trust them to get out onto the field. This includes guys like Michael Egnew, Anthony Armstrong, Rishard Matthews, Lamar Miller and Charles Clay. All of those guys continued to make mistakes for much of the year in practice and fans would've liked to see them used far more and more quickly than they actually did get used. And even when they did get used, they made mistakes. Michael Egnew was always going to be a guy that would have to be taught more about the position than some other guys because of Gary Pinkel's system and what it asks of its tight ends. The speedy, rep-oriented but not teaching-oriented style that the Dolphins run in practice was not a good fit for him. But you read these forums and people expect that he either should have already been cut, or he's about to be cut, and that he'll never make an appearance in the NFL again. He'll be bagging groceries. That's the tenor on the forums. Given that, I call him underrated. The NFL is not done with Michael Egnew yet.
And I also believe that Nolan Carroll has more potential than commonly given credit for having. He ran afoul of the coaches in the Buffalo game late in the year for some penalties, some were his fault and some weren't. He's another guy whose coverage skills were raw coming out and who might be better off allowed to be aggressive. The scheme might not fit him that well. But he's got great size, great speed, and he allowed only 6.90 yards per attempt in his direction in 2012, along with only 1.13 yards per coverage snap. His coverage rating on PFF (to whatever extent you can trust their opinion) puts him in starting territory in the same neighborhood as guys like Brandon Carr, Cedric Griffin, Lardarius Webb, Sean Smith and Carlos Rogers. His yards per coverage snap put him in even better ranking territory and his yards per attempt in his direction even better than that. He was a third year player, and corners have a long learning curve. If you listen to these forums, he's dead. He's replaced. Richard Marshall, Jamar Taylor, Will Davis and Dimitri Patterson should all be ahead of him. I think that makes him underrated.
Brian Hartline received a $30 million contract despite having produced only one touchdown in 2012. He's a Z receiver that doesn't have the speed a Z receiver should have. He's a nice guy to have on the perimeter that can create separation and make the catches that fit this offense and fit the quarterback, but he's not really a play maker. I don't see why there would be confusion on referring to him as overrated.
As for Matt Moore, I'm just referencing the most common accolade handed to him, which is that of being either THE best backup quarterback in the NFL, or one of the very best. I don't think he is that. I think he's a very middle of the road backup quarterback.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
That has not been my perception of how people consider him at all. If that's how people think of him, he wouldn't be overrated.
But right now this guy is pegged to play the most important position on the offensive line, yet he's the weakest of the five players on the offensive line. To me that puts him on the overrated side. His career is not done and I never said it was. I have never even ruled out the possibility of him ending up a Pro Bowler or some such. So when SOME people in this forum pretend they know what I think and then regurgitate some made up crap, you should probably just disregard it and ask me directly, as you've done here. I just think Martin is overrated relative to his expectations and positioning, especially in the short term.
Overrated:
Mike Wallace, Reshad Jones, Lamar Miller, Hartline, Brandon Gibson, Jovorskie Lane, Will Yeatman
Underrated:
Charles Clay, Koa Misi, Jared Odrick (as DT), John Jerry
So many people listed Rishard Mathews are underrated I don't think it's appropriate to put him there anymore. But he otherwise would have made my list. I similarly hold high hopes for Jonas Gray, but at this point I'm worried about his return from injury.
Among the rookies my "overrated" team would be Jamar Taylor and especially Will Davis. On the other hand I think Dallas Thomas is being underrated.
Mike Wallace, Reshad Jones, Lamar Miller, Hartline, Brandon Gibson, Jovorskie Lane, Will Yeatman
Underrated:
Charles Clay, Koa Misi, Jared Odrick (as DT), John Jerry
So many people listed Rishard Mathews are underrated I don't think it's appropriate to put him there anymore. But he otherwise would have made my list. I similarly hold high hopes for Jonas Gray, but at this point I'm worried about his return from injury.
Among the rookies my "overrated" team would be Jamar Taylor and especially Will Davis. On the other hand I think Dallas Thomas is being underrated.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I wanted to put Will Yeatman as overrated just because so many people talk about him like he's a starter and I'm not sure anyone has actually seen him play football or can recall watching him play football at tackle. He played some in the preseason. Not much though. But he doesn't even have college tape of him at OT.
But the reality is I'm one of the few that have watched his preseason snaps at OT and can recall how he looked and it wasn't bad. He was definitely mobile. Just obviously as a TE convert not all that powerful. I think I like Jeff Adams better.
But the reality is I'm one of the few that have watched his preseason snaps at OT and can recall how he looked and it wasn't bad. He was definitely mobile. Just obviously as a TE convert not all that powerful. I think I like Jeff Adams better.
He's just one of those guys who are an empty vessel for people's hopes, imo. He could well end up being a good player but there's no -- or very little -- reason to have that opinion. Hence overrated.
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
He much like the constant 5th and 6th receivers we have on team that every year people predict will break out. Anyone remember Brandon London or Richardo Wallace.
BennySwella
We need better LB's
Over-rated: Chris Clemons
Under-rated: Reggie Bush (whoops) Devone Bess (whoops) Marcus Thigpen
Under-rated: Reggie Bush (whoops) Devone Bess (whoops) Marcus Thigpen
Blake the great
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Keller is underrated
Incognito is overrated
Incognito is overrated
zach8111
Pro Bowler
I understand your reasoning on why you think he is overrated but if this poll was meant for the media/fans over/underrated players then there is no way he is being overrated by them. From what I have been hearing most of the media/fans think martin IS the weakest link and isnt worthy of starting and needs upgraded. So really he cant be overrated by them BUT if you are talking about the front office overrating players, then yes martin IS a bit overrated by them, because they are rating him as a "starting LT" this year and think somewhat highly of him if they are gonna trust him to block Tannehills blindside.
Just because a player who hasnt preformed well in the past (martin) is pushed into a starting spot (LT) doesnt mean he is being overrated. It just means they couldnt find a better replacement this offseason (and they did try)
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Well, yeah actually to me that goes a long way toward being overrated. Pretty much by definition.
But also the crowd seems to fully be on this kick that he played better on the left side than the right (he didn't, not really) and that he'll be a 'mediocre' left tackle.
Part of the issue I think is that "mediocre" and "average" are usually meant quite negatively where at least in my view if Martin was actually an "average" left tackle that would be perfectly fine with me. That's all I think you need. Problem is he was below average last year, especially at left tackle. Will he be better with a whole offseason of work on the left side? Probably. But even if he isn't, you can do things to cover one weak tackle that you couldn't when it Martin and Garner out -- who are both weak.
All the weights Martin lifted and the trucks he pulled won't help his performance as much as Tyson Clabo being on the other side. Not that Clabo is a world beater, but he's solid enough that you can give Martin consistent help if he's overmatched.