Why is Landry worth 8 million more then Edelman?

[Eesti]

my question was, do you think he's worth 14mill a year? I don't believe he is but it's ok if you do

Ozzy rules!!

He's listed as a top 10 FA this year and the #1 WR in FA. He is worth what the market dictates and there's inflation every year that the cap goes up. The real issue here is the guaranteed money because that's the only real money in an NFL deal. I think he could be structured in way that's affordable. I would pay him 13 million average but structure it with some foresight on our future cap and needs. Baldwin only got 12M guaranteed at signing with additional guarantees at later dates. His cap hits were....

2016: 8M
2017: 4.4M
2018: 12M

So they can get out of it this year if they want or they can pay him $12M this year

DaVante Adams is the 4th highest paid WR (14.5M average &24M GTD at Sign ) and has never had a 1k season He has had a good TD number for the past 2 years but I'll take Jarvis over him.

 

[WaddleWaddle]

If the Patriots sign Landry, those stats will skyrocket.

no they will not, the pats do not build their offense around 1 guy like the phins have. Miami gameplans to get Landry at least 5-7 receptions a game even if it means throwing it behind the line of scrimmage. I truly believe people will be shocked if Landry leaves and you see his stats plummet because hes not the focal point anymore. You think Belichick and Brady will care if Landry gets the ball 10 times per game? People don't realize how much Landry's stats are boosted because of the offense hes in. I love the guy, he has amazing hands and a huge love for football, but hes not the best route runner, can't beat guys deep or win jump balls. His best asset is RAC and thats why he catches balls within 5 yards constantly.

 

[Kdawg954]

Again with that? So then again I ask, will James, Parker and Harris give the team back some money because they didn't play like first round picks? That's not how it works. You don't just over pay just because YOU feel he didn't make as much money as say a first round pick made. Nobody's saying he shouldn't want as much as possible. What some people are saying is that WE shouldn't over pay for him. Why is THAT so hard to understand? There has to be a pay structure and it should not include over paying for a slot WR but then again, how much is fair?

Ozzy rules!!

Its not overpaying though.

When you have a great player, and Jarvis is a great player, teams have 4 options:

1. You sign him early off the rookie deal and rip up the last year . . . Which increases the short term but often decreases the annual over the life of the contract.

2. You let the rookie deal expire and if you cannot work out a deal you can use the franchise tag and continue working to a longterm goal.

3. You sign him in free agency and you pay him free agent market value, which is likely to be a 25% markup on the AAV.

4. You let him leave in free agency where the thought of him being "overpaid" gets debunked because he is a great player and someone else will give him that "overpayment".

In my scenario, plan 1 and plan 3 . . . Is equal, except in one scenario the AAV is 11.5 for 5 years . . . .in the other situation the AAV is 14 million for 4 years, but 11.4 over 5 . . . .plus Miami got the benefit of watching Jarvis without guaranteeing anything.

The problem here is you are continuing to devalue Jarvis because he plays in the slot but not understanding that he is a great player. Who cares if his skillset is not Julio Jones . . . He is a great player and the top FA WR on the market.

The NFL teams have enough leverage on the players by not guaranteeing contracts . . . Now you suggest players giving back? Lmao

 

[DolfanISS]

I think the strategy of drafting good players and letting them walk when they are do for a big pay day is one that will really pay off for us.

 

[Kdawg954]

If Miami wants to move on . . . That is up to them.

But don't sell me on 4/56 being the reason . . . .that is fair for Jarvis. Sell me on Isiah ford or Leonte Carroo or Drew Morgan or Jakeem Grant.

 

[Ryan1973]

It's real simple, have Landry and Edelman switch teams and see if Edelman puts up the same numbers here as Landry has. I really doubt he would be able to. Edelman is more of a product of the Patriots system and Brady being the QB.

 

[gregorygrant83]

It's real simple, have Landry and Edelman switch teams and see if Edelman puts up the same numbers here as Landry has. I really doubt he would be able to. Edelman is more of a product of the Patriots system and Brady being the QB.

But isn't it about more than individual numbers? If Miami had Landry and Edelman and Landry went down week one with a season ending injury do you think Miami's win total would be different? My question is what are you getting in the win column for the $12 or $15 million you're spending? If I can win just as many games with a $7 million or $8 million receiver as I can with a $12 million or $15 million why should I spend more? I'm not saying I'm against keeping Landry, but it might not be a wise cap move.

 

[WaddleWaddle]

It's real simple, have Landry and Edelman switch teams and see if Edelman puts up the same numbers here as Landry has. I really doubt he would be able to. Edelman is more of a product of the Patriots system and Brady being the QB.

and Landry's numbers would also drop. He averages 10 targets a game with us. You think he gets that on the pats? Not even close. Cooks was the top target guy with 114, and gronk was second with 104. Landry had 160 targets.

 

[Danny]

Its not overpaying though.

When you have a great player, and Jarvis is a great player, teams have 4 options:

1. You sign him early off the rookie deal and rip up the last year . . . Which increases the short term but often decreases the annual over the life of the contract.

2. You let the rookie deal expire and if you cannot work out a deal you can use the franchise tag and continue working to a longterm goal.

3. You sign him in free agency and you pay him free agent market value, which is likely to be a 25% markup on the AAV.

4. You let him leave in free agency where the thought of him being "overpaid" gets debunked because he is a great player and someone else will give him that "overpayment".

In my scenario, plan 1 and plan 3 . . . Is equal, except in one scenario the AAV is 11.5 for 5 years . . . .in the other situation the AAV is 14 million for 4 years, but 11.4 over 5 . . . .plus Miami got the benefit of watching Jarvis without guaranteeing anything.

The problem here is you are continuing to devalue Jarvis because he plays in the slot but not understanding that he is a great player. Who cares if his skillset is not Julio Jones . . . He is a great player and the top FA WR on the market.

The NFL teams have enough leverage on the players by not guaranteeing contracts . . . Now you suggest players giving back? Lmao

Just a couple of things that I don't think you're following me here with. First, my point of him being a slot WR is that you can't run your offense thru him and expect to score a lot. I have explained tis several times before and plenty of people agree. You need to understand that with Landry as the main target you need drives that are 12 to 14 play because he doesn't give you chunk yards. The problem when you need that many plays is that you'll have more chances to mess up. A bad pass or a drop or a penalty or a sack. That's why we have so many drives that ended up having to punt or on a F/G. Is very hard to run 12 to 14 plays where everything goes perfect. When you have a real #1 that makes plays down the field OR takes a short pass and turns it into a 40 yards play(something Landry doesn't do) then you don't need 12 plays to score. So that's the reason I don't want him to get #1 kind of money, specially when we're talking 14 mill or more. As long as we run our offense thru him we will not have a high scoring offense imo

The part about players giving money back....I'm not suggesting they do. What I'm saying is that you're saying we should pay him more because he didn't get a huge rookie contract but he played well for us and we're supposed to make up for it and so I said to that, are we going to ask other players to give some of their money back because they didn't do as much in their first few years? It wasn't meant to really ask them to give money back. See you're laughing at it but yet YOU'RE saying we need to make up to Landry for what he hasn't made in his first 4 years. Now that's something I can laugh at too. Doesn't make me cool or a better poster than you. We just have a different view on it. You seem to think that paying Landry top 5 money will make our team better and I think that the money can be spend better somewhere else. So, we're going to have to agree to disagree

Ozzy rules!!

 

[Eesti]

and Landry's numbers would also drop. He averages 10 targets a game with us. You think he gets that on the pats? Not even close. Cooks was the top target guy with 114, and gronk was second with 104. Landry had 160 targets.

Like when Wes Welker had 100+ reception in 5 seasons in NE?

 

[WaddleWaddle]

Like when Wes Welker had 100+ reception in 5 seasons in NE?

Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are both better route runners than Landry. Landry is great after he gets the ball in his hands, those guys were great before they got the ball in their hands. Not to mention NE now has Gronkowski, Cooks, Amendola, Hogan, White, Lewis. Do you really think Landry gets 100 receptions with all those options.

 

[Eesti]

Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are both better route runners than Landry. Landry is great after he gets the ball in his hands, those guys were great before they got the ball in their hands. Not to mention NE now has Gronkowski, Cooks, Amendola, Hogan, White, Lewis. Do you really think Landry gets 100 receptions with all those options.

I think Belichick would utilize his best weapons and he wouldn't sign Landry unless he got rid of Cooks or Amendola.....so yes, I think he would. There offense has morphed several times to fit the personnel over the years. Landry could go anywhere and become a 1k receiver, IMO.

 

[Ryan1973]

Wes Welker and Julian Edelman are both better route runners than Landry. Landry is great after he gets the ball in his hands, those guys were great before they got the ball in their hands. Not to mention NE now has Gronkowski, Cooks, Amendola, Hogan, White, Lewis. Do you really think Landry gets 100 receptions with all those options.

And how did Wes Welker do when he played with the Dolphins? His production went way up when he went to the Patriots.

 

[WaddleWaddle]

And how did Wes Welker do when he played with the Dolphins? His production went way up when he went to the Patriots.

Wes Welker was playing on a run first team in his second year with Joey Harrington. Welker went from a run-first team in his second season to a pass-heavy offense with Brady in his prime. Landry is going from a team who throws the ball 64% of the time (most in the NFL), where he is the number one option and a team that throws him 3 or 4 screen passes a game to a team who passes the 16th most in the NFL, would not be the number one option and would be completely unfamiliar with the playbook (which he struggles with already). The situations are much different

 

[artdnj]

Such a great mindset . . . guy puts his heart and soul into a team for 4 years, does not hold out at all, makes 3.5 million in those 4 years, earns the right to free agency and now people get up in arms because like every other NFL player he has earned the right to a big pay day.

If a team lets a quality player like Jarvis hit free agency, he will get paid, it is up to the team to make that decision.

Like I said in another thread, you probably could of given Juice a Doug Baldwin like deal last year which would of put him in the 5 years/57.5 million dollar range. (11.5 million AAV)

Instead if you give him 4 years/56 million (14 million AAV) this year + the rookie deal he played on for 1 million in 2017 . . . it equals out to 5 years/57 million. (11.4 AAV)

So in the end it isn't much of a difference from a contract perspective.

That is ABSOLUTELY the way you have to look at it and I am sorry if people cannot grasp that concept. Miami took their savings in 2017 and they had the leverage to not pay Jarvis so if anything happened to him longterm they would never have to pay him. Jarvis took all the risk so absolutely he deserves to get paid and if Miami wants to be perceived as this first class organization that handles their business with players and draft picks . . . . they would understand this and get a deal worked out, or they can continue to develop draft picks only to lose them in 4/5 years when they enter their primes.

New England gave an injury prone Gronk an extension extremely early and got savings longterm but they could of let him play it out and it would of gotten expensive but they would of saved in the short term. It is how deals are done and the overall tenure of the player needs to be considered . . . with what he would of gotten and what the team saved by extending early or not extending until FA.

Ding ding ding, well said. NE can get cheaper players and let expensive ones go because they are winners and have arguably the best QB who ever played the game. We on the other hand need a stud and Landry is in fact one. He'll get paid and we shouldnt have to cave completely but if we want him we should make a substantial offer and do our due diligence. If he breaks the bank and leaves so be it at least we tried.