Why is Landry worth 8 million more then Edelman? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Why is Landry worth 8 million more then Edelman?

Just a couple of things that I don't think you're following me here with. First, my point of him being a slot WR is that you can't run your offense thru him and expect to score a lot. I have explained tis several times before and plenty of people agree. You need to understand that with Landry as the main target you need drives that are 12 to 14 play because he doesn't give you chunk yards. The problem when you need that many plays is that you'll have more chances to mess up. A bad pass or a drop or a penalty or a sack. That's why we have so many drives that ended up having to punt or on a F/G. Is very hard to run 12 to 14 plays where everything goes perfect. When you have a real #1 that makes plays down the field OR takes a short pass and turns it into a 40 yards play(something Landry doesn't do) then you don't need 12 plays to score. So that's the reason I don't want him to get #1 kind of money, specially when we're talking 14 mill or more. As long as we run our offense thru him we will not have a high scoring offense imo

The part about players giving money back....I'm not suggesting they do. What I'm saying is that you're saying we should pay him more because he didn't get a huge rookie contract but he played well for us and we're supposed to make up for it and so I said to that, are we going to ask other players to give some of their money back because they didn't do as much in their first few years? It wasn't meant to really ask them to give money back. See you're laughing at it but yet YOU'RE saying we need to make up to Landry for what he hasn't made in his first 4 years. Now that's something I can laugh at too. Doesn't make me cool or a better poster than you. We just have a different view on it. You seem to think that paying Landry top 5 money will make our team better and I think that the money can be spend better somewhere else. So, we're going to have to agree to disagree

Ozzy rules!!

Its not about making up what he should of gotten . . . It is about "avoiding" FA market value for "great" players when they hit free agency. Fa market value is wa different from looking at a WR highest paid list from OvertheCap.com and coming to a conclusion on what a player should make. Higher cap, ages when a player was signed, etc. all play a role.

Miami could of signed him to a top level slot contract last year but instead decided to take their coins early and let Jarvis play out his rookie deal and he lead the NFL in receptions.

People who think the end result should be Jarvis saying "Well i reconfirmed for the 4th straight year that I am the dude and even added touchdowns producer to the resume so give me that deal from the 2017 offseason" are just completely mislead on the entire situation. It is not how the NFL works and that is where you and I will continue to disagree because you think it does work that way.

Miami knows this and the likely franchise tag you see placed on Jarvis if a deal isn't done will reconfirm this. The cap can be manipulated in so many ways man. Hell right now New Orleans is about to take an 18 million dollar cap hit if Drew Brees signs somewhere else . . . Why? Because they manipulated the cap to give them space now only to be hurt later and even when later comes, they drafted better so all these little holes they filled make it less likely to use that cap on FA and saves them.

And i am not sure where you think any team doesn't wanna score with 12 play drives on every series. That is the goal my friend. 12 to 14 play drives, chewing up 7 minutes TOP and coming away with 7 while you have a bunch of hungry dudes on defense that are well rested and eager to get the ball back to the offense. You think successful teams just lob it up every possession and score in 3 to 5 plays? New England has made an absolute killing of this philosophy for damn near two decades.

I know you have watched this Dolphins offense since Landry has been here . . . .there has yet to be an equivalent of one season of decent offensive line play during his tenure. It is not a coincidence that Jarvis is the producer he is as Tannehill/others don't have the proper time to set up things on the outside with any consistency. Jarvis has been that safety valve.

In 2017 he became a force to reckon with in the redzone . . . Because he is a great player and yet his route running which has been shitted on for some reason in this thread. Unreal thought process out there. The man has played 64 out of 64 games and is on a hall of fame pace statistically . . . .but yet he is just any old slot WR?

No, he is the best slot WR in the NFL and if the 2nd best slot WR, Doug Baldwin, got 11.5 AAV two years ago at an age that was 2 years older than Landry. . .don't sell me on Jarvis not being worth 14 million because that notion is absolutely FALSE.

The only fair way to evaluate Juice financially to other wide receivers is if you simulate what those guys would make if they were UFAs this year. Any other analysis should fall on deaf ears if we are honest about the situation.

Again doesn't mean we are going to resign. Jarvis will be a hot commodity on the market but that is a damn good player we are talking about and he makes this team better. We need to do our best to keep him.
 
LET HIM GO. Yes, his name is on my user name. He's still not worth it.
 
Sometimes teams make mistakes that can't be remedied. The Dolphins should have offered Landry an extension after year 2. Something worthy of the best slot receiver in the NFL. Now he's proven himself over time and wants boundary receiver money. This is like the Olivier Vernon mistake all over again, and like that situation, I think we're going to have to let him go.
 
It's hard to say what a player is truly worth. But whatever he's going to get, if we don't pay it we better have a good plan B for a top WR we'll replace him with. If we go into the year with Stills and Parker as our top two WRs it's gonna get ugly.
 
While I'm not a fan and of the "heart and soul" of the team crap, I am a fan of results. I'm not sold that Landry is good enough for us to break the bank on -- he's good but hasn't been a game changer in the way that we seem to be lacking, these guys seem to think he's good enough to spend on (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752682-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-slot-receivers-of-2017-season).

I think between what I've been reading and trying to have an open mind about home grow players, I'm moving from "pay him like a slot" to "pay him like one of the best slots". It's worth pointing out that even if he is one of, if not the best slot, that once we find a true #1 receiver and if Drake can stay healthy, his numbers might dip and that would make him look even more expensive.
 
Its not overpaying though.

When you have a great player, and Jarvis is a great player, teams have 4 options:

1. You sign him early off the rookie deal and rip up the last year . . . Which increases the short term but often decreases the annual over the life of the contract.

2. You let the rookie deal expire and if you cannot work out a deal you can use the franchise tag and continue working to a longterm goal.

3. You sign him in free agency and you pay him free agent market value, which is likely to be a 25% markup on the AAV.

4. You let him leave in free agency where the thought of him being "overpaid" gets debunked because he is a great player and someone else will give him that "overpayment".

In my scenario, plan 1 and plan 3 . . . Is equal, except in one scenario the AAV is 11.5 for 5 years . . . .in the other situation the AAV is 14 million for 4 years, but 11.4 over 5 . . . .plus Miami got the benefit of watching Jarvis without guaranteeing anything.

The problem here is you are continuing to devalue Jarvis because he plays in the slot but not understanding that he is a great player. Who cares if his skillset is not Julio Jones . . . He is a great player and the top FA WR on the market.

The NFL teams have enough leverage on the players by not guaranteeing contracts . . . Now you suggest players giving back? Lmao

Landry is a good slot receiver. I'm struggling with "great."
 
Its not about making up what he should of gotten . . . It is about "avoiding" FA market value for "great" players when they hit free agency. Fa market value is wa different from looking at a WR highest paid list from OvertheCap.com and coming to a conclusion on what a player should make. Higher cap, ages when a player was signed, etc. all play a role.

Miami could of signed him to a top level slot contract last year but instead decided to take their coins early and let Jarvis play out his rookie deal and he lead the NFL in receptions.

People who think the end result should be Jarvis saying "Well i reconfirmed for the 4th straight year that I am the dude and even added touchdowns producer to the resume so give me that deal from the 2017 offseason" are just completely mislead on the entire situation. It is not how the NFL works and that is where you and I will continue to disagree because you think it does work that way.

Miami knows this and the likely franchise tag you see placed on Jarvis if a deal isn't done will reconfirm this. The cap can be manipulated in so many ways man. Hell right now New Orleans is about to take an 18 million dollar cap hit if Drew Brees signs somewhere else . . . Why? Because they manipulated the cap to give them space now only to be hurt later and even when later comes, they drafted better so all these little holes they filled make it less likely to use that cap on FA and saves them.

And i am not sure where you think any team doesn't wanna score with 12 play drives on every series. That is the goal my friend. 12 to 14 play drives, chewing up 7 minutes TOP and coming away with 7 while you have a bunch of hungry dudes on defense that are well rested and eager to get the ball back to the offense. You think successful teams just lob it up every possession and score in 3 to 5 plays? New England has made an absolute killing of this philosophy for damn near two decades.

I know you have watched this Dolphins offense since Landry has been here . . . .there has yet to be an equivalent of one season of decent offensive line play during his tenure. It is not a coincidence that Jarvis is the producer he is as Tannehill/others don't have the proper time to set up things on the outside with any consistency. Jarvis has been that safety valve.

In 2017 he became a force to reckon with in the redzone . . . Because he is a great player and yet his route running which has been ****ted on for some reason in this thread. Unreal thought process out there. The man has played 64 out of 64 games and is on a hall of fame pace statistically . . . .but yet he is just any old slot WR?

No, he is the best slot WR in the NFL and if the 2nd best slot WR, Doug Baldwin, got 11.5 AAV two years ago at an age that was 2 years older than Landry. . .don't sell me on Jarvis not being worth 14 million because that notion is absolutely FALSE.

The only fair way to evaluate Juice financially to other wide receivers is if you simulate what those guys would make if they were UFAs this year. Any other analysis should fall on deaf ears if we are honest about the situation.

Again doesn't mean we are going to resign. Jarvis will be a hot commodity on the market but that is a damn good player we are talking about and he makes this team better. We need to do our best to keep him.
Man Dawg, can you at least keep your answers to a couple of lines so that I can reply back?.....lol

I know you're very passionate about him. Landry's a good player imo. In your opinion he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.....lol

I agree that maybe they could have extent him a couple of years back and it wouldn't have cost as much as he wants now but they didn't.

Now it doesn't seem they want to give him 14 mill a year but you think they will tag him which would cost them over 16mill? I'm not sure they will but I don't put anything past this FO

Now, yet again you didn't seem to understand what I meant about the 12 to 14 play drives. IF and that'd be a big IF.......if you can have 14 plays drives AND actually score a TD then of course, that would be great and EVERY team would want to do that for the reasons you listed. Now tell me, how many times did we have these 12 to 14 plays drives and we actaually scored a TD? Honestly I don't know the number but I know if was not very often. And that's the point I was trying to make. When you need that many plays to score a TD then chances are you will not score very often because too many things can go wrong. You need to be near perfect like the pats. Yes they can do it because they're nearly perfect on those long drives but people need to stop comparing us to NE because they're a different team.

Trust me, if running your offense thru a slow slot WR was the way to build a super bowl winning team then the slot WR's would all be the highest paid players in the NFL other than QB's. Over the last say 20 years, which teams won the super bowl by running their offense thru a slot WR? Pitt? GB? Denver? The Giants?

You're not right that we're nopt going to agree but it's for different reasons than you mention. I don't believe on building a super bowl winning team by targeting your slot WR 160 and you on the other hand do. You seem to think that I don't want him on the team and that's not true. I just don't want him to be our number 1 target. That of course is not his fault. The team has done that and in MY opinion is wrong.

Ozzy rules!!
 
Landry is a good slot receiver. I'm struggling with "great."

Not sure what the struggle is.

I would say he is a great WR and a elite slot WR. 25 years old, 65 games out of 65 games played. All time receptions leader through 4 seasons. Continually improving his game to where he was rated top 5 player in the redzone and scored 9 touchdowns this year.

How is that just "good" lol
 
Its not about making up what he should of gotten . . . It is about "avoiding" FA market value for "great" players when they hit free agency. Fa market value is wa different from looking at a WR highest paid list from OvertheCap.com and coming to a conclusion on what a player should make. Higher cap, ages when a player was signed, etc. all play a role.

Miami could of signed him to a top level slot contract last year but instead decided to take their coins early and let Jarvis play out his rookie deal and he lead the NFL in receptions.

People who think the end result should be Jarvis saying "Well i reconfirmed for the 4th straight year that I am the dude and even added touchdowns producer to the resume so give me that deal from the 2017 offseason" are just completely mislead on the entire situation. It is not how the NFL works and that is where you and I will continue to disagree because you think it does work that way.

Miami knows this and the likely franchise tag you see placed on Jarvis if a deal isn't done will reconfirm this. The cap can be manipulated in so many ways man. Hell right now New Orleans is about to take an 18 million dollar cap hit if Drew Brees signs somewhere else . . . Why? Because they manipulated the cap to give them space now only to be hurt later and even when later comes, they drafted better so all these little holes they filled make it less likely to use that cap on FA and saves them.

And i am not sure where you think any team doesn't wanna score with 12 play drives on every series. That is the goal my friend. 12 to 14 play drives, chewing up 7 minutes TOP and coming away with 7 while you have a bunch of hungry dudes on defense that are well rested and eager to get the ball back to the offense. You think successful teams just lob it up every possession and score in 3 to 5 plays? New England has made an absolute killing of this philosophy for damn near two decades.

I know you have watched this Dolphins offense since Landry has been here . . . .there has yet to be an equivalent of one season of decent offensive line play during his tenure. It is not a coincidence that Jarvis is the producer he is as Tannehill/others don't have the proper time to set up things on the outside with any consistency. Jarvis has been that safety valve.

In 2017 he became a force to reckon with in the redzone . . . Because he is a great player and yet his route running which has been ****ted on for some reason in this thread. Unreal thought process out there. The man has played 64 out of 64 games and is on a hall of fame pace statistically . . . .but yet he is just any old slot WR?

No, he is the best slot WR in the NFL and if the 2nd best slot WR, Doug Baldwin, got 11.5 AAV two years ago at an age that was 2 years older than Landry. . .don't sell me on Jarvis not being worth 14 million because that notion is absolutely FALSE.

The only fair way to evaluate Juice financially to other wide receivers is if you simulate what those guys would make if they were UFAs this year. Any other analysis should fall on deaf ears if we are honest about the situation.

Again doesn't mean we are going to resign. Jarvis will be a hot commodity on the market but that is a damn good player we are talking about and he makes this team better. We need to do our best to keep him.

Baldwin plays X for Seattle. Lockett at under a million is the slot.
 
Maaan any 'lightish', 'too tall', 'upright' RB with good hands can do what Juice does.

I like a number slot WR in the draft from Kirk and Moore to Campbell and Miller but my closest comp from this class to Landry, Dante Pettis, will go late 3rd/early 4th.

We made him. All he has on any other guy is durability.

Welker, Bess, Hartline, he's JAG, same as those others.
 
All time receptions leader through 4 seasons.
Just to complete the picture: 27th in receiving yards post-merger with his 400 catches in his first four seasons, which makes him 91st in yards per reception. Davone Bess is 90th. Also Landry ranks 50th in receiving TDs with 22. Gronkowski is 3rd with 42 TDs after his first four seasons.
 
Oh he is worth the contract. That argument needs to die.

If he isn't a Dolphin next year it is because of Miami's incompetence with the cap.

If we really want him we'll be able to keep him. The question is do we (does Gase) really want him?
 
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