2008 Mets Thread

[Boik14]

you guys must of clicked on the wrong thread... this is the mets thread w/ phillie bashing inside.

hey, i got another fantasy question for all: if youre in a league that has played in previous years, is it common for each team to keep 2 of their players to carry over into next years league? im asking because i am joining a league as a new team - the comish of the league said it would cool to not do this if i thought this was unfair, but now the other 6 owners think im bitching about it and want to keep their 2 players.

i see this as taking away the best 14 players in the draft... so essentially i get pick 15 and 16.

I do a couple of keeper style leagues where you keep a handful of players from last year and cannot draft in the round they were picked in. Doing it this way places emphasis on round value...for instance last year in one league I kept Wright (1st round), Beltran (3rd), Victor Martinez (4th round), John Maine (21st round), and Rafael Soriano (22nd) because I felt if I let go of these players it was unlikely I would find better value in those rounds.

But this should be announced before hand and each owner should definitely have a say in being able to draft a team.

Thats just one way to do a keeper style league. I have another league where I inherited a dead last place team in a 16 team league and rebuilt it from scratch I couldnt even find 15 players I wanted to keep the first year. The first year I played with no catcher and no real 2b and just kept pulling young players off waivers which was how I found Alex Rios and David Wright in that league since I grabbed them before anyone knew who they were. Now that team is stacked beyond belief with 4 legit top 10 picks (wright reyes utley and howard).

 

[Boik14]

The Marlins have a twice as many titles in the past 15 years....so what?, it doesn't make them great.

From GERRY FRALEY OF THE SPORTING NEWS
who had this to say about the Mets:

-- The Phillies aren’t the only team that hates the Mets. Flamboyant and preening, the Mets are the most disliked team in the NL. Opponents find it easy to get fired up to play them. That helps explain how Florida and Washington, the worst clubs in the NL East, went 8-5 against New York in September last season. Teams enjoy beating the Mets. --

:kick:

No ones talking about the Marlins. This about how much I despise Philly sports teams. :kick:

 

[Roman529]

Hey Boik....what do you think the matchups will be for the Phils-Mets series?

Here is my guess:

April 8th: Myers versus Santana
April 9th: Hamels versus P. Martinez
April 10th: Kendrick versus Maine

If Myers pitches the opener on April 2nd, he could be starting on April 7th against Cincy so you might miss him? But I think both teams could give their aces 6 days between starts to open up the season. We gonna take 2 out of 3 at Shea. :)

 

[Rocky Raccoon]

how do you guys feel about Steve Phillips? Is it true that all Mets fans hate him? I think he does a great job on ESPN, even though he wasn't too successful as your GM.

 

[Boik14]

Hey Boik....what do you think the matchups will be for the Phils-Mets series?

Here is my guess:

April 8th: Myers versus Santana
April 9th: Hamels versus P. Martinez
April 10th: Kendrick versus Maine

If Myers pitches the opener on April 2nd, he could be starting on April 7th against Cincy so you might miss him? But I think both teams could give their aces 6 days between starts to open up the season. We gonna take 2 out of 3 at Shea. :)

Im not sure Santana will start the opener for NYM though Pedro has given his permission. I would laugh if the mets decide to open with like John Maine. Frankly its tough to predict these things so far in advance before I can look up splits vs hitters for the pitchers pitching and even then Im not that good at it.

I do think you will see a more focused mets team this year and one less worried about antics and more worried about kicking tail so Ill guess the mets take at least 2 games regardless of who pitches. :kick:

 

[Boik14]

how do you guys feel about Steve Phillips? Is it true that all Mets fans hate him? I think he does a great job on ESPN, even though he wasn't too successful as your GM.

Personally i did not like Phillips big league moves but I felt good about his drafts from day one pretty much. He was responsible for reyes and wright (as a result of losing Mike Hampton via FA), he was responsible for getting piazza and I believe Leiter as well...in addition to olerud and Ventura which I definitely did not mind . I always felt he came across as smug though and I felt he dropped the ball on the Arod signing and I believe Vlad was on his watch as well when it was the whole "he has back issues" thing. I felt he was overly confident in crumby players (Ordonez, Agbayani, Timo Perez etc). He gave up much too quickly on Melvin Mora (for Mike Bordick) and then mora went on to have some solid years in baltimore. Whether Mora could have replicated that with the Mets I dont know but I know he would have been more productive then Rey Ordonez who couldnt hit the broadside of a barn.

And then lets not leave out the fact that the one big ticket FA he did bring in, Glavine, would have been a disaster the last few years if Peterson had not re-taught him how to pitch and really changed up his style. Those that remember 3 years ago, remember him having a 6+ era in mid may.

So overall I give him a D and give Valentine a ton of credit for doing well with Piazza, Ventura, Fonzie, Olerud and not much else hitting wise, and having a pretty mediocore staff. :kick:

 

[Boik14]

I know I wont miss him but figured you guys may want to know:

In an interview Wednesday with the New York Post, Shawn Green said that he's decided to retire.

Green told the newspaper that he drew interest "from six or seven teams" after hitting .291/.352/.430 for the Mets last season, but indicated that none were close enough to his California home to be appealing. "I wanted to stay here with my family," Green said. "Not travel around the country anymore. I enjoyed playing a lot. I enjoyed New York. But for me, it was time to be home." If Green is truly done, he finishes a 15-year career as a two-time All-Star and .283/.355/.494 hitter with 328 homers and 1,070 RBI. Feb. 28 - 9:19 am et
Source: New York Post

 

[Boik14]

Petey on a new contract: http://www.nypost.com/seven/02272008/sports/mets/pedro_s_pitch_has_to_wait_99523.htm

"I'm not going to be picking up the phone in the offseason," Pedro said. "I'll be fishing from 6 in the morning to 7 at night. It'll be an all-day thing. They better leave some messages."

 

[Ray Finkle]

Personally i did not like Phillips big league moves but I felt good about his drafts from day one pretty much. He was responsible for reyes and wright (as a result of losing Mike Hampton via FA), he was responsible for getting piazza and I believe Leiter as well...in addition to olerud and Ventura which I definitely did not mind . I always felt he came across as smug though and I felt he dropped the ball on the Arod signing and I believe Vlad was on his watch as well when it was the whole "he has back issues" thing. I felt he was overly confident in crumby players (Ordonez, Agbayani, Timo Perez etc). He gave up much too quickly on Melvin Mora (for Mike Bordick) and then mora went on to have some solid years in baltimore. Whether Mora could have replicated that with the Mets I dont know but I know he would have been more productive then Rey Ordonez who couldnt hit the broadside of a barn.

And then lets not leave out the fact that the one big ticket FA he did bring in, Glavine, would have been a disaster the last few years if Peterson had not re-taught him how to pitch and really changed up his style. Those that remember 3 years ago, remember him having a 6+ era in mid may.

So overall I give him a D and give Valentine a ton of credit for doing well with Piazza, Ventura, Fonzie, Olerud and not much else hitting wise, and having a pretty mediocore staff. :kick:

I think giving him a D is a little harsh in my opinion as an outsider to all of this. I didn't think Phillips was great by any means but he did draft some very good players like you mentioned above and he also did make some very good trades while giving up basically nothing (like the one for Robbie Alomar and Burnitz) however the players never lived up to their potential which hurt his credibility. He actually had an 7 or 8 player deal in place for Manny Ramirez at the trading deadline in 2000 too but (according to him anyway) couldn't get the Met owners on the phone to sign off on it, he never did say who the other players were but it would be have interesting to see who it was and if it went down if it would have impacted the 2000 WS at all.

You can't really kill him for trading Mora though, Ordonez went down with a broken wrist in 2000 and the Mets didn't have a clear SS, that's why they got Bordick. Without him the Mets might not have made it to the World Series.

I'd probably give him a solid C.

 

[Boik14]

I think giving him a D is a little harsh in my opinion as an outsider to all of this. I didn't think Phillips was great by any means but he did draft some very good players like you mentioned above and he also did make some very good trades while giving up basically nothing (like the one for Robbie Alomar and Burnitz) however the players never lived up to their potential which hurt his credibility. He actually had an 7 or 8 player deal in place for Manny Ramirez at the trading deadline in 2000 too but (according to him anyway) couldn't get the Met owners on the phone to sign off on it, he never did say who the other players were but it would be have interesting to see who it was and if it went down if it would have impacted the 2000 WS at all.

You can't really kill him for trading Mora though, Ordonez went down with a broken wrist in 2000 and the Mets didn't have a clear SS, that's why they got Bordick. Without him the Mets might not have made it to the World Series.

I'd probably give him a solid C.

So because the acquisitions didnt work out for Burnitz, vaughn and Alomar that makes it ok? Part of a GM's job, any GM, is not to only review the past but gauge what a player has left. There wasnt much that showed that Alomar and Vaughn would decline so quickly but the fact that you got them so cheaply should have said all you needed to know. Burnitz had come up through the Met organization so you knew he wasnt anything special. Ditto Bobby Bonilla who had been a met once before, yet phillips insisted on bringing that scrub back so now we're paying him through 2025 at a million per (mind you he only had 5mil left and phillips/wilpon essentially agreed to put the 5mil in a bond for him).

Mora disturbed me because Valentine had used him at short and later said he felt he could have done what Bordick did only with more offense (which was one of the things we needed. Believe me, Mike Bordick had little to do with the mets getting to the world series with quite possibly the worst outfield of all time for a WS team (Agbayani-Payton-Timo Perez) and Armando Blownitez as the "closer". It was ALL Piazza, ventura, Leiter, Fonzie, Hampton, Bobby Jones and a few of the relievers were excellent during that playoff run.

 

[SpaceMountain16]

Your team is awful. They always have been awful. The Mets have more WS titles in a fraction of the time. Thats my point.

The Mets came in an expansion era where for a long time FA was no factor.
Philly has been around since day 1 as the athletics and phillies and theyve always been bad.

If you want to bring up modern history well the last 25 years dont look so good for you.

WS titles: Mets 1, Phillies 0
WS appearances: Mets 2 Phillies 1
Playoff appearances: Mets 5 Phillies 3
90 win seasons: Mets 9 Phillies 5

Awesome team. At least Atlanta wins something once in a while and has fans that are knowledgable and not complete tools (not necessarily you) but Ive seen enough Philly fans and I cant really say how little I think of them other then theyre classless. :shakeno:

of the 10,000 games the Phillies lost i think the majority of them came in the 20's, 30's and 40's. Since 1962 they have more playoff appearances than the Mets. But if you want to go back in ancient history to call out the Phillies on being lousy, go right ahead. They've been better than the Mets in my lifetime.

 

[Boik14]

of the 10,000 games the Phillies lost i think the majority of them came in the 20's, 30's and 40's. Since 1962 they have more playoff appearances than the Mets. But if you want to go back in ancient history to call out the Phillies on being lousy, go right ahead. They've been better than the Mets in my lifetime.

Actually the reason I did the last 25 years was because of the fact it takes any expansion team about 15-20 years to become established especially in that era where pre and early FA team building took much longer. 20 years into the mets history puts us at 1985 hence the 25 year time period I chose. So no, in your lifetime, since the mets have become established they have been better. :kick:

 

[Ray Finkle]

So because the acquisitions didnt work out for Burnitz, vaughn and Alomar that makes it ok? Part of a GM's job, any GM, is not to only review the past but gauge what a player has left. There wasnt much that showed that Alomar and Vaughn would decline so quickly but the fact that you got them so cheaply should have said all you needed to know. Burnitz had come up through the Met organization so you knew he wasnt anything special. Ditto Bobby Bonilla who had been a met once before, yet phillips insisted on bringing that scrub back so now we're paying him through 2025 at a million per (mind you he only had 5mil left and phillips/wilpon essentially agreed to put the 5mil in a bond for him).

Mora disturbed me because Valentine had used him at short and later said he felt he could have done what Bordick did only with more offense (which was one of the things we needed. Believe me, Mike Bordick had little to do with the mets getting to the world series with quite possibly the worst outfield of all time for a WS team (Agbayani-Payton-Timo Perez) and Armando Blownitez as the "closer". It was ALL Piazza, ventura, Leiter, Fonzie, Hampton, Bobby Jones and a few of the relievers were excellent during that playoff run.

No you missed my point that giving Phillips a D for his 6 years as Mets GM is unfair. Again I didn't think Phillips was a good GM by any means but the guy led the Mets into the playoffs twice and 1 WS appearance in his 6 years, again not great but don't forget this was in the middle of the Braves destiny race in the NL East so the Mets were already fighting an upward battle before the seasons ever started.

My point about the trades of veteran guys like Piazza, Leiter, Hampton, Alomar, Burnitz and even Mo Vaughn (I didn't bring up Mo because I didn't think that he was a good fit for both the team or city in that point of his career due to his personal problems) was that Phillips landed very good, not to mention two are future HOFers, players for next to nothing which I think should be mentioned and he should get credit for. The guy bought in the best offensive player in the franchise's history , Mike Piazza, to the Mets in his prime and all Piazza did was put up big numbers.

Like you said the guy drafted/signed a lot of very good talent such as David Wright, Jose Reyes, Scott Kazmir, Lastings Milledge, Heilman. But to be fair aside from those guys he's farm systems were never that strong and one of the negatives of his 'era'.

And again to be fair, Phillips never got along with Bobby Valentine, some of the players and of course there was the sex harassment suit in 1998. But even with all of that Phillips still deserves to get a solid C for what he did in those 6 years. Was he perfect? Nope not by any means but as someone who doesn't care about the Mets at all (unless there are playing a team that impacts the Sox) I feel like he gets somewhat of a bad rap.

 

[Roman529]

of the 10,000 games the Phillies lost i think the majority of them came in the 20's, 30's and 40's. Since 1962 they have more playoff appearances than the Mets. But if you want to go back in ancient history to call out the Phillies on being lousy, go right ahead. They've been better than the Mets in my lifetime.

You are absolutely correct. The Phillies use to play back in the Baker Bowl in those days. The Phillies owner raised the height of the outfield fences because he did not want his star hitter (Chuck Klein) to hit too many homers....this cheap owner didn't want to have to pay him the same money that Babe Ruth got. In 1933 Klein won the Triple Crown (.368, 28, 120)...he was later elected to the Hall of Fame.

 

[Boik14]

No you missed my point that giving Phillips a D for his 6 years as Mets GM is unfair. Again I didn't think Phillips was a good GM by any means but the guy led the Mets into the playoffs twice and 1 WS appearance in his 6 years, again not great but don't forget this was in the middle of the Braves destiny race in the NL East so the Mets were already fighting an upward battle before the seasons ever started.

My point about the trades of veteran guys like Piazza, Leiter, Hampton, Alomar, Burnitz and even Mo Vaughn (I didn't bring up Mo because I didn't think that he was a good fit for both the team or city in that point of his career due to his personal problems) was that Phillips landed very good, not to mention two are future HOFers, players for next to nothing which I think should be mentioned and he should get credit for. The guy bought in the best offensive player in the franchise's history , Mike Piazza, to the Mets in his prime and all Piazza did was put up big numbers.

Like you said the guy drafted/signed a lot of very good talent such as David Wright, Jose Reyes, Scott Kazmir, Lastings Milledge, Heilman. But to be fair aside from those guys he's farm systems were never that strong and one of the negatives of his 'era'.

And again to be fair, Phillips never got along with Bobby Valentine, some of the players and of course there was the sex harassment suit in 1998. But even with all of that Phillips still deserves to get a solid C for what he did in those 6 years. Was he perfect? Nope not by any means but as someone who doesn't care about the Mets at all (unless there are playing a team that impacts the Sox) I feel like he gets somewhat of a bad rap.

Phillips didnt lead that team anywhere. It was Valentine. All Valentine. And when the players rebeled against Valentine that was on him as well. But the success and failure was on Valentines ability to get the most out of his players.

All Phillips did was draft well. His Fa moves were awful. Kevin appier for 4/40? Awful in NY. Jeromy Burnitz? Bleh bad at best. Alomar deal? Gave up a 1st round pick (Billy Traber) who had value at the time and Alex Escobar (who was an elite prospect according to baseball America at the time). You could have done more. Mo Vaughn was so bad here it was laughable. Personal situations aside its the GM's responsibility whether it be Phillips or Minaya or anyone to account for those types of things and gauge the affect on said player.

He did bring in Piazza and Leiter but he gave a ton to do it when the Marlins were having a firesale. Preston Wilson, Aj Burnett, highly touted LHP Ed Yarnell...all those were guys teams really wanted and I had no problem giving something to get something. But then you have to account for things like bringing in Bordick for Mora (awful based on Mora's production and fact he had played SS at times for the Mets), bringing in Mel Rojas (thanks for bringing that memory back) and that alone deserves a D. Magnify it by the inability to resign Hampton who was an elite pitcher at the time and someone he basically emptied what was left of the farm for at the time and you can understand my ranking better. He never got the missing pieces needed to get by the braves. We needed an OF bat and the best he could do was Daryl Hamilton? Then signs him to a pretty nice (at the time contract extension? Ew.

I didnt misunderstand what you wrote initially...I just didnt agree with it bro. The mets are a big market team, act like it. Spend some frickin money. Minaya understands it, Steve Phillips did not. You dont have to be the Yankees but at the same time dont be afraid to use your resources. You CAN go out and sign a Pedro and Beltran when you need to not make up some excuse why you dont sign Vlad or Arod. You can do more then John Olerud (who dont get me wrong, I loved his time here) and Robin ventura but you dont back off big fish just because you got some medium sized ones. :hi5: