3Ps Totally off topic Heat/Pistons thread

[Ozzy]

They did, for a change; and yet still, Zo fouled out, Shaq, Haslem and Wade had 5. I think the officials need to let them play, period. I thought the Heat were getting the shaft on calls until tonight, and they still did - just that the refs started calling all the reaches by the Pistons' defenders too.

It's an exciting series, just let 'em play, dammit!

Yeah, the Heat got a few calls, but not many. I mean how many times in the final couple of minutes did the Pistons intentionally foul? My guess is around 5 or 6.

Shaq gets pushed, and hacked thruout the whole game, and even though he has trouble shooting FT's, it would still make Detroit substitute more, but he hardly ever gets a call. He does not cry about it though.

Now Detroit on the other hand cries like babies on almost every single foul called against them.

I tell you what though, if the refs did let the two teams play more, I would still take the Heat. They're showing the Champs that they can rumble with the best.

 

[Mindwarp]

Now Detroit on the other hand cries like babies on almost every single foul called against them.

like when Rasheed fouled wade and he went running all baffled like how was that a foul? They showed the replay and when wade was in midair rasheed pushed him with his forearm.

heh

I guess 'sheed thought that was allowed in detorit.

 

[Muck]

Looked like a forearm right in the bread basket.

I'm very happy with this team right now. I'm still not overly confident simply because these are the Pistons. And they're NEVER out of a game until the final whistle. I have to admit, when the Heat went cold and Detriot took the lead, I started thinking it could be over. But Eddie Jones and Rasual Butler stepped up. And Shaq became Rick Barry at the line. This team is showing championship toughness.

Still, I wish Shaq was 100% (or close). Then it's a whole other series IMO. Miami wins a few going away, as Shaq scores at will and the Detriot front court starts fouling out earlier. Much like the regular season, where the Heat just wore teams down and pulled away in the 4th.

 

[phunwin]

Yeah, the Heat got a few calls, but not many. I mean how many times in the final couple of minutes did the Pistons intentionally foul? My guess is around 5 or 6.

Shaq gets pushed, and hacked thruout the whole game, and even though he has trouble shooting FT's, it would still make Detroit substitute more, but he hardly ever gets a call. He does not cry about it though.

Now Detroit on the other hand cries like babies on almost every single foul called against them.

I tell you what though, if the refs did let the two teams play more, I would still take the Heat. They're showing the Champs that they can rumble with the best.

Are you serious?!? I mean, were you even watching that game, or did your seeing-eye dog give you the recap?

I haven't seen officiating that one-sided since Game 6 of that Kings-Lakers series a couple years ago when the Lakers had roughly a 94-3 edge in free throws because the NBA had James Worthy, Magic Johnson and Jerry West working as referees. Chauncey Billups got fouled *THREE* times on one play, including getting knocked into the basket support. No call.

Now that said, did the Pistons deserve to lose? Absolutely. Miami played better, found a way to win despite Shaq and Wade not playing well for most of the second half, and Detroit lost their cool. And on the plus side, I cashed in my even money bet that Rasheed Wallace would get T'ed up in the fourth quarter of an important playoff game. But let's not pretend this one was called right down the center.

Am I concerned? Of course. The Pistons have now surrendered home court advantage, and absolutely MUST win tomorrow night, or they can kiss the season goodbye. That's never a fun position to be in. But I think it's just as important for Miami. They need to close this out quickly. 5 games in 8 days, with the condition Shaq's in? Against the roughest team in the NBA? He might be sporting a Willis Reed limp by game 7. And as I said in a previous post, I refuse to believe this is just a thigh bruise.

Am I happy about the fact that I'm more or less relying on Shaq's declining health to submarine Miami's hopes in this series? No. But I can't deny it: if Shaq's 100%, this series is probably 3-0 right now. But are Heat fans whining WAY too much about this? You bet. When you rely on a big man who's spent the last five years between 50 and 80 pounds overweight and averaged about 15-20 games on the injured list, you can't exactly be shocked when he gets hurt. That's like me complaining that Sheed's technical killed whatever momentum Detroit had last night; it comes with the territory.

Am I tired of writing like Donald Rumsfeld speaks? Yup. Is it time to end this post before it gets worse? Absolutely.

 

[NaboCane]

...Am I tired of writing like Donald Rumsfeld speaks? Yup. Is it time to end this post before it gets worse? Absolutely.

That was funny.

Seriously though Phil, the calls weren't that one sided; here's the Heat's box:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=yspsctbg><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=13 height=18>Miami </TD></TR><TR class=ysptblthbody1 align=right><TD class=yspdetailttl align=left width="18%" height=18>Name</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Min</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">FG</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">3Pt</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">FT</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Off</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Reb</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Ast</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">TO</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Stl</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Blk</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">PF</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Pts </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left>E. Jones</TD><TD>41</TD><TD>4-9</TD><TD>3-6</TD><TD>8-8</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>19 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left>U. Haslem</TD><TD>31</TD><TD>3-6</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>6 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left>S. O'Neal</TD><TD>35</TD><TD>8-13</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>8-12</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>24 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left>D. Wade</TD><TD>38</TD><TD>12-21</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>12-18</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>36 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left>D. Jones</TD><TD>30</TD><TD>2-6</TD><TD>1-4</TD><TD>3-7</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>8 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left>A. Mourning</TD><TD>18</TD><TD>0-1</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>4-4</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>4 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left>C. Laettner</TD><TD>12</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left>R. Butler</TD><TD>17</TD><TD>3-4</TD><TD>3-3</TD><TD>0-1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>9 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left>K. Dooling</TD><TD>18</TD><TD>2-5</TD><TD>0-1</TD><TD>3-4</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>7 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=middle><TD align=left>S. Anderson</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Coach's Decision</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=middle><TD align=left>M. Doleac</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Coach's Decision</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=middle><TD align=left>S. Smith</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Coach's Decision</TD></TR><TR class=ysptblbdr3><TD colSpan=13 height=1></TD></TR><TR class=ysptblclbg5 align=right><TD align=left height=18>Totals</TD><TD>240</TD><TD>34-65</TD><TD>7-14</TD><TD>38-54</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>39</TD><TD>22</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>29</TD><TD>113 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left height=18>Percentages:</TD><TD></TD><TD>.523</TD><TD>.500</TD><TD>.704</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left colSpan=7>Team Rebounds: 15 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Note that every heat player that played had a minimum of 2 fouls except for Damon Jones. Zo fouled out; Wade had 5, Eddie had 5, Shaq had 4 (not 5 like I had thought before) - in other words, the refs decided to call this one tight. Which is wrong in a playoff series, especially one between two tough teams.

I'd like to see the refs just let them play. Stop calling the ticky-tack sh1t, let them use some muscle inside.

But I'll tell you something - I do want to see the refs call tighter on the Pistons when they're fouling hard intentionally, or fouling on reach-ins under the guise of "playing good defense." I think it's horsesh1t when the Pistons try to get away with fouls because they can't contain the Heat's best guy, then cry and whine when they get called for it. That's weak, and it's beneath the champion-caliber team that they are.

 

[Ozzy]

Are you serious?!? I mean, were you even watching that game, or did your seeing-eye dog give you the recap?

I haven't seen officiating that one-sided since Game 6 of that Kings-Lakers series a couple years ago when the Lakers had roughly a 94-3 edge in free throws because the NBA had James Worthy, Magic Johnson and Jerry West working as referees. Chauncey Billups got fouled *THREE* times on one play, including getting knocked into the basket support. No call.

Now that said, did the Pistons deserve to lose? Absolutely. Miami played better, found a way to win despite Shaq and Wade not playing well for most of the second half, and Detroit lost their cool. And on the plus side, I cashed in my even money bet that Rasheed Wallace would get T'ed up in the fourth quarter of an important playoff game. But let's not pretend this one was called right down the center.

Am I concerned? Of course. The Pistons have now surrendered home court advantage, and absolutely MUST win tomorrow night, or they can kiss the season goodbye. That's never a fun position to be in. But I think it's just as important for Miami. They need to close this out quickly. 5 games in 8 days, with the condition Shaq's in? Against the roughest team in the NBA? He might be sporting a Willis Reed limp by game 7. And as I said in a previous post, I refuse to believe this is just a thigh bruise.

Am I happy about the fact that I'm more or less relying on Shaq's declining health to submarine Miami's hopes in this series? No. But I can't deny it: if Shaq's 100%, this series is probably 3-0 right now. But are Heat fans whining WAY too much about this? You bet. When you rely on a big man who's spent the last five years between 50 and 80 pounds overweight and averaged about 15-20 games on the injured list, you can't exactly be shocked when he gets hurt. That's like me complaining that Sheed's technical killed whatever momentum Detroit had last night; it comes with the territory.

Am I tired of writing like Donald Rumsfeld speaks? Yup. Is it time to end this post before it gets worse? Absolutely.

I'll throw that right back at you. Are you serious?

Do you just overlook the fact that Shaq is shoved from behind, and his arm is hacked on almost every other play? They must have shown the replays in brail TV, for us blind folk. Especially the one of Sheed whacking Shaqs elbow twice, making Shaq lose the ball. No call

Billups was fouled, but he was not fouled three times. You might wanna borrow my dog my dog? He was up in the air, and got fouled once. The players momentum caused them to clash with another Heat player, and they tumbled against the post, and to the ground, with Billups ending up on the bottom of that pile.

The Piston's intentionally fouled at the end of the game at least 5-6 times. Take those fouls away and Miami is BEHIND in free throws for the game.

You can call me blind all you like but my blind (_)_) thinks Miami should have gotten to the line 10 more times last night. :cooldude:

Let me ask you this. Do you think that Rip should have gotten the continuation on all three of the last three fouls on him? It must be me again, being blind, because I could swear I saw the foul on one, then two steps taken before the ball was even out of his hands!

Not a lot of Miami fans are crying that Shaq is not at 100 percent. What I see, and here down here is that we wish he was because we did not think Miami could pull it out if he's not. That's not crying, that's saying that we know who we're playing, and that to beat the champs, him being healthy surely help the chances.

This series is far from over. Detroit could easily win the next two, that's why I think a lot of people picked this to go 12 rounds.

 

[Muck]

Let me ask you this. Do you think that Rip should have gotten the continuation on all three of the last three fouls on him? It must be me again, being blind, because I could swear I saw the foul on one, then two steps taken before the ball was even out of his hands!

I was screaming about this very thing last night. He kept getting continuation when he shouldn't have. Everytime I kept expecting the ref to point to the floor, only to see Hamilton step up to the stripe.

I could be wrong here. But I thought Billups got the bloody mouth from hitting the floor. Not sure though.

 

[Ozzy]

I was screaming about this very thing last night. He kept getting continuation when he shouldn't have. Everytime I kept expecting the ref to point to the floor, only to see Hamilton step up to the stripe.

I could be wrong here. But I thought Billups got the bloody mouth from hitting the floor. Not sure though.

Of the three times I saw, the continuation was not even close on two of them. I was going nuts.

Billups either hit the post, or the ground, I'm not sure. Even if it was from a Miami player, it was not on purpose.

Another thing is when the Pistons started using the press at the end. They could have called a foul on almost every Miami possession. I thought to myself well let them play then, but no one should be crying about fouls in this game because it goes both ways.

 

[Mindwarp]

I was screaming about this very thing last night. He kept getting continuation when he shouldn't have. Everytime I kept expecting the ref to point to the floor, only to see Hamilton step up to the stripe.

I could be wrong here. But I thought Billups got the bloody mouth from hitting the floor. Not sure though.

dude you do not know how much i was bitching about this same thing last night.. I was like WTF it wasnt even close to him shooting.. and they would not only give him the trip to the charity stripe but they gave him and1

 

[phunwin]

Woo-hoo! 2-2!

I will add, however, that even I thought that Hamilton continuation play was ridiculous in game 3.

 

[Mindwarp]

Woo-hoo! 2-2!

I will add, however, that even I thought that Hamilton continuation play was ridiculous in game 3.

I expected Detroit to win that game, however, wtf was up with that 3rd foul on shaq? did someone pay the ref for that call?

 

[phunwin]

I expected Detroit to win that game, however, wtf was up with that 3rd foul on shaq? did someone pay the ref for that call?

I didn't see it, but I did read from a number of different places that it was pretty weak. That said, given the calls Dwyane Wade has been getting, I'm not exactly crying a river for the Heat.

 

[NaboCane]

Tough series; Detroit is getting a lot more from their starters than I thought, they really aren't needing their bench except for McDeyess and Hunter.

 

[phunwin]

Tough series; Detroit is getting a lot more from their starters than I thought, they really aren't needing their bench except for McDeyess and Hunter.

Well, that's good, because Larry Brown doesn't trust his bench at all. That said, Carlos Arroyo has played pretty well when he's been in, so they at least have the trappings of an 8 man rotation. (I don't know if you want to count Elden Campbell or not, since his sole job is to send Shaq to the free throw line.)

As good a coach as he is, it's probably best that he's moving on; they need a coach who can develop guys like Delfino and Milicic. The lack of depth hasn't killed the Pistons yet, but it might. If they'd been more willing to let those guys get some game time in the regular season, they might be more viable options now.

In case anyone cares, the odds on Flip Saunders becoming the next coach are about 1:2, with Nate McMillan running at 5:1.

 

[NaboCane]

Well, that's good, because Larry Brown doesn't trust his bench at all. That said, Carlos Arroyo has played pretty well when he's been in, so they at least have the trappings of an 8 man rotation. (I don't know if you want to count Elden Campbell or not, since his sole job is to send Shaq to the free throw line.)

As good a coach as he is, it's probably best that he's moving on; they need a coach who can develop guys like Delfino and Milicic. The lack of depth hasn't killed the Pistons yet, but it might. If they'd been more willing to let those guys get some game time in the regular season, they might be more viable options now.

In case anyone cares, the odds on Flip Saunders becoming the next coach are about 1:2, with Nate McMillan running at 5:1.

Man, McMillan would be a coup...but how will Detroit steal him from Seattle? Or did he get fired?