According to SI Peter King....

[Lockdown24]

Sanchez's stats for his career are no better than Henne, and in some areas worse. The team around him carried them to the AFC Championship game, not Sanchez.

some of you guys have been repeating this argument so let me say this:

1. there was a thread a few days ago on finheaven arguing how the dolphins defense is actually better than the jets D right now. I pointed out that the jets D was ranked higher the past 2 seasons and was laughed at.

2. again, here on finheaven, you guys have argued that the weapons you have, i.e. marshall, bess and hartline, are better than what the jets had last year. Some of you argued that you wouldn't want braylon edwards because there was no spot for him and you would have to get rid of a guy like hartline.

3. don't get me started on how awesome the R&R express was last year.

So I pose this question to the fin faithful:

If our lesser D and offensive weapons were able to carry sanchez to the afccg twice, why can't the dolphins superior D, weapons and slightly better QB even sniff the playoffs?

I'll give you a hint and it goes a little beyond stats you see printed on espn.com: because sanchez doesn't curl up into the fetal position in the biggest moments.

 

[HeartbreakKid28]

To be fair Peter King picked the Dolphins as a sleeper playoff contender before last season, and picked us to go to the Super Bowl in 2006. Well, I forget if it was him in 2006, whoever controls SI's NFL preview picked Miami. I assume it was him. Anyway, it's the kiss of death! I'm glad he doesn't like us to do anything!

 

[Statler Waldorf]

3-1 against us the last 2 years, 11-17 vs. the rest of the league. You have beeen able to compete during games but not over the course of a long season.

Lol, what does that say about the Jets? Give us them over the rest of the league anyday.

 

[Krush]

Orton only won 3 games last season

 

[Krush]

It's easy to pick the favorites when they have better talent, the dolphins are going to surprise alots of prognosticators.

 

[Krush]

Get real dude, the jest bought everything off the streets to field a decent team which was playing well because there talent level, JT, LT, Braylon, and you tried to get nnamdi, I respect the disire to get better but to buy a championship, why do you think that they did that? (bring in all of that talent) because your QB is just as bad as ours on some days.

 

[nyjunc]

So what you are basically saying is that Sanchez sucks, he is just surrounded by a good team. Which is what I have been telling you all along.

How did you get that from he'd lead Denver to more wins? It;'s great that fantasy #s impress you but QBs are judged by how they play when it matters most.

Right we didn't improve our ILB position drastically. Our young secondary won't get better with another year under Nolan. Our D-line (with the emergence of Soliai) won't be the best in the league. We were number 3 until that Pats game without one of the most important cogs to our defense. In fact we're step for step with the Jets in scoring defense if you eliminate both non-defensive touchdowns.

So your young secondary can improve just w/ anothewr year under their belts but oyr young QB cannot improve?

You can crow about being #3 until that game but your team QUIT and they moved down in the rankings. Our BACKUPS shut out Buffalo, your starters got torched by NE's backups. That should tell you something. In 2003 we were 8th in pts, it wasn't b/c we had a great D it was b/c we trailed in many games and opponents played more conservative just like opponents did against Miami.

I love it when people blindly throw stats out there.

Seattle game- All I have to say is you lose credibility when you use a game the Broncos won. But anyway, Orton had 252 yards passing and 1 TD by the end of the 3rd quarter. It was 24-7 at that time. At what point would you say it's garbage time? Should you discount anything he did after after the 10 min mark where, up till that point it was a 10 point game.... So, you say a blowout is when there is 20 mins left in the game and you are only up by 10? Please!!

Indy game- Wow another blowout garbage time game. I mean the score was 20-13 going into the 4th. Indy was obviously in prevent defense and the Broncos obviously were in garbage time for Orton. It beame 27-13 with 8 mins left in the game. Just for the record, while the score was 20-13 Orton already had over 400 yards passing. So I ask, in this game, where did he get his stats from garbage time?

Baltimore game- This was a 10 point game going into the 4th. So in situations like this, should we no longer praise QB's for comeback wins? I urge again, at what point do you distinguish come back wins to garbage time with QB'S. Or is it a convenience thing when you want it to only work for certain QB's and certain times. Sounds like an agenda.

Those 3 games we have now established that each game was a 2 posession game going into the 4th. So, are you insisting anything larger then a 1 posession game now treads blowout status?

the SF game is just laughable. You do realize that Denver was winning 10-3 a few mins into the 4th quarter correct? So where were the garbage time stats in that blowout?

St Louis game you may have a legit debate here. HOWEVER, with 14 mins left in the game it was a 2 posession game. I ask again, you say they never had a chance. There was 14 mins left in the game, how can you say they didn't have a chance? That is a 2 posession game.

It seems to look as though you feel anytime there is more then a 13 point lead it is all garbage stats. At what point does a comeback for a QB become just garbage time stats.

Does a game have to be within 7 points with less then 15 mins to play? All these games were 2 posession games with more then 10 mins to play in them. Yeah those are obviously garbage time stats. That is, unless of course, you live in reality and see each week how a team comes back from 10-14 point deficits to win the game in the 4th quarter.

I made a mistake, I thought he was talking about all blowout games, he was just talking about games they got blown out in so take away Sea & KC and he had nearly 1200 yds in thsoe 3 blowout losses.


by the way, YES if they are up big late and he keeps throwing that is stat padding. The game was never closer than 17 after they made it 24-7 in the 3rd but he still threw a 31 yd TD up 24-7 in the 4th.

Indy game: They were down by more than a TD for most of the game. They cut it to 7 but of course w/ the ball in his hands down 7 he couldn't lead them to the tying score and the game was over aftre that failed possession. This was one of those games if you watched you know they never really had a chance but the score looks close.

Bal game: They were down 17-0, they cut to to 17-7 at the half and kept that deficit entering the 4th. couldn't score all 3rd qtr until Bal scored in the 4th to make it 24-7 the of course he led them to 10 4th qtr pts to make the score look closer.

SF: Yep 10-3 into the 4th then it was 10-0 quickly, then 17-10, then Orton fumbled and it was 24-10 before he led a meaningless 78 yd drive which ended w/ a TD pass. 97 rating in the game yet he led them to 10 pts in the competitive portion of the game.


If a team has a legit chance it's not garbage time, I don't think den had a legit chance in any of those games and he failed when the games were close which is realy the point of all this.

Just more rhetorix from the crowd that wants to act like Orton sucks. Funny we attack Orton on this board for being on a losing team because we all know a good qb always has a winning season. In the same vein we wont give Ryan props because he hasnt won a playoff game yet so now some wnat to label as just a regular season winner. Last time i checked only one qb starts on the superbowl team and he damn sure doesnt win it all by himself.

Ryan has a lot to prove in January but at least he is getting his team there.

We'll see how Sanchez does when half his team is in jail by mid season... CHAIN GANG GREEN...

Says the fan of the team that leads the AFC East in arrests by far(the Jets have the fewest arrests since 2000).

The entire jets fanbase has said this in real life and on TGG/FH for the past couple seasons. Will you learn?

The dolphin fan base has said you will be better than the Jets each of the last 2 years- when will you guys learn?

how would sanchez put up better numbers . would his completion percentage magically go up or would his td to int ration magically chnage drastically. U do realize that Orton put up the same numbers the previous year when he was 8-7 as a starter so by your logic his numbers should have been much better last year. Your logic on this matter has no base

I say he WOULDN'T put up better #s but he would WIN more which is more important. sanchez isn't intimidated by tough situations, orton struggles in those situations.

 

[nyjunc]

Typical fan? That's what we ALL are you "Typical New Yawkah", FANS! If your favorite team wins the Super Bowl, are you gonna take credit for it? Being a Yets fan AND a NYer you probably will. I feel very sad/bad for you nypunk. This time of year everyone is thinking....."This is OUR year" BUT.....that's why they play the games! May the best team win. :-)

Yes, you feel bad for me as you act like a jerk w/ silly, childish insults.

If we are talking Division titles.....How about the Jets? Only two,count em two!!!!! Division titles since 1970! The Jets are JUNK!!!!!

We have the same # of div titles as Miami since 1995 but 3 more trips tot he AFC title game.

Lol, what does that say about the Jets? Give us them over the rest of the league anyday.

It says we can struggle against some bad/mediocre teams but we don't let a bad game or 2 get us down or stop us from producing in January.

 

[DDTDON]

I would love to hear a Bills or Jet (NYjunc) fan explain how Sanchez is so much better than Henne and a steal at No.4 in the draft. He had a 75.3 rating on a team, with a better O'line, which resulted in more time and a better running game.A team with a better D and a far better ST. Now we can all look at individual games and say Sanchez done this, Henne did that, but in my mind both were piss poor last year. Take a look at the Qb's with over 90 QBR compared to the ones below 80 and then you will see a major difference.

Like I said previously, Trent Dilfer was lambasted by the media with similar QBR to Sanchez and Henne last year. Now the argument you have stated previously NYjunc is that Sanchez has won playoff games, but Dilfer won SB, so who is the better QB? or are we now going to talk potential? Which leads me onto my next point.

The Jets have lost Damien Woody and IMO have a lass effective set of WR. They have an ageing D which again IMO has the potential to decline. ST will no doubt decline with the loss of Brad Smith.

Dolphins this year have upgraded their line, in my mind with Pouncey but more importantly some consistancy. I belv this will result in an improved run game. Dont get me wrong I dont think we will set the world alight but we will improve statistically. Our young D have in the eyes of most media the potential to be elite next year. Our ST has and will improve from last year.

So I ask based on last years similar QBR (Henne had marginally better), who has the most potential to improve this year, when you consider last year was a good year for Sanchez and a bad year for Henne?

Don't you just love it when Junc chooses which post he wants to comment on. I agree with everything you're saying. Go DOLPHINS!!!

 

[nyjunc]

Don't you just love it when Junc chooses which post he wants to comment on. I agree with everything you're saying. Go DOLPHINS!!!

I cannot respond to all posts, i try though.

We got a franchise QB for essenatilly a 2nd rd pick- that is a steal.

When we start bringing up QB ratings I tend to ignore those b/c those that know QB play understand the rating system is flawed. Sanchez won 4-5 games w/ excellent play late in games and he has won 4 road playoff games. henne is not close to him right now. Henne could have a big season and Sanchez may not take a step forward then we can revisit this but as of today the 2 aren't close despite the similar ratings.

Dilfer was a very underarted player on that Bal team, not a great QB obviously but really important to them winning.

Sanchez will be better than dilfer, he's not better than a vet Dilfer yet.

We lost Woody down the stretch last year and for 2 of the 3 playoff games, we brough back Wayne Hunter who did a good job filling in for him. We are ok at RT, not as good but ok.

An aging D? Revis is 25, Harris 26, Leonhard 28, Cro 26, pool 26, Smith 27, wilson 23, Pace 30, Scott 30, Pouha 31 and we drafted the 2 rookies we are counting on. There's not a player over 32 on our D right now.



Brad Smith was the latest in a long line of excelelnt returners, everyone we have put back to return kicks has had success under Mike Westhoff PLUS they are moving KOs back to the 35 which will reducre returns anyway.

The dolphins have upgraded their line but they had moor room to do so, we still have a better OL.

I expect Sanchez to take a nice step forward, he improved from year 1 to year 2 while Henne regressed. He has more experience, more big game experience and has been able to play w/ high expectations for his team since day 1. I think Miami COULD compete, I know the Jets will compete(barring disastrous injuries for both of course).

Each offseason I hear about how Henne is better than Sanchez, how your OL is better, how your RBs are better, how your WRs are better yet we keep winning more games- how does this happen?

 

[NYPhin24]

Young/prime at C, LT, QB, RB, WR, LB, CB, DL. We are doing ok.

We may see a revolving #2 WR the next few years but our #1 is locked up and we have a young guy in Kerley who will be a 3 by next year.

Of course there are questions, nothing is ever certain in this league but on paper we look pretty damn good. That doesn't guarantee us anything but I feel good going into '11.

"young" doesnt mean anything, QB Sanchez is young but unproven at best, Shonn Green, young but hasnt proven he can handle a full season

WR young/Prime????? Santonio is 27 and is in his prime, thats it, Plax is 34 and coming out of jail not playing for 2 years, and Mason is going to be 38 during the season, both wayyyy past their prime

So you know that Kerley a 5th round guy is going to be a #3 WR next year based off a few weeks of camp? Interesting.....

LB David Harris young and prime at age 27 yes, Calvin Pace 30 years old and probably seen his best impact days, Bart Scott 30 years old, wheres the youth and depth?

the DL has 2 unproven rookies, Sione Pouha 32 years old,

 

[nyjunc]

"young" doesnt mean anything, QB Sanchez is young but unproven at best, Shonn Green, young but hasnt proven he can handle a full season

WR young/Prime????? Santonio is 27 and is in his prime, thats it, Plax is 34 and coming out of jail not playing for 2 years, and Mason is going to be 38 during the season, both wayyyy past their prime

So you know that Kerley a 5th round guy is going to be a #3 WR next year based off a few weeks of camp? Interesting.....

LB David Harris young and prime at age 27 yes, Calvin Pace 30 years old and probably seen his best impact days, Bart Scott 30 years old, wheres the youth and depth?

the DL has 2 unproven rookies, Sione Pouha 32 years old,

Sanchez & Greene and young and have proven they can play in big games- that's a nice step. They still have plenty to prove but they are on the right track.

I didn't say our entire WR corps but our #1 WR is young and in his prime.


Isn't Gates going to be the next great WR in this league? You guys know that based off a few days of camp so why couldn't I expect Kerley will be able to be a #3 NEXT YEAR?

30 isn't old and depth wise we could use an upgrade but we do have some young guys the CS is pretty high on in Westerman and bellore. You can't have depth everywhere and each year I hear how we don't have depth yet every time we have a big injury someone steps in to play well.

How come our rookies are unproven yet you guys can talk about your rookies and Odrick like they are proven? obviously Ellis and wilkerson are unproven but trust me they can play in this league- how quickly they adapt? I don't know but we'll have ab better DL this year than last year- I feel confident about that. Don't forget we also get Ropati Pitoitua who the staff was really high on before he got hurt last year.

This is Pouha's 6th yr in the league, he's a "young 32".

 

[NYPhin24]

Sanchez & Greene and young and have proven they can play in big games- that's a nice step. They still have plenty to prove but they are on the right track.

I didn't say our entire WR corps but our #1 WR is young and in his prime.


Isn't Gates going to be the next great WR in this league? You guys know that based off a few days of camp so why couldn't I expect Kerley will be able to be a #3 NEXT YEAR?

30 isn't old and depth wise we could use an upgrade but we do have some young guys the CS is pretty high on in Westerman and bellore. You can't have depth everywhere and each year I hear how we don't have depth yet every time we have a big injury someone steps in to play well.

How come our rookies are unproven yet you guys can talk about your rookies and Odrick like they are proven? obviously Ellis and wilkerson are unproven but trust me they can play in this league- how quickly they adapt? I don't know but we'll have ab better DL this year than last year- I feel confident about that. Don't forget we also get Ropati Pitoitua who the staff was really high on before he got hurt last year.

This is Pouha's 6th yr in the league, he's a "young 32".

you said young/prime at.....then listed the positions, you said "WR" you didnt say "one WR" of course everytime has at least 1 young receiver

Did I say Gates is going to be the next great WR? MAYBE next year depending on how he does this year he can take the #2 away from Hartline, but it is not a guarntee at all, his great camps and practices could turn into nothing, just saying i wouldnt go as far as making a statement that Gates "will be" a #3 or #2 next season

Odrick showed promise in his 1 game he got to play, he also won a starting spot on one of the more talented DL in football, nobody said he was going to be in the HOF

30 isnt old, but in terms of football years, it certainly is not young and if it is prime, there usually isnt much left (in most cases)

 

[BlueFin]

The man is telling you straight what our weakness is, and you call him a hater?

He's absolutely right, we have a weak quarterbacking situation once again, we did nothing significant to improve either this year or long term.

It seems that many don't get that you don't win championships without strong quarterback play. Its the most important position in team sports and should have been priority number one for Dumb & Dumber, but once again, they ignored it.

 

[nyjunc]

you said young/prime at.....then listed the positions, you said "WR" you didnt say "one WR" of course everytime has at least 1 young receiver

Did I say Gates is going to be the next great WR? MAYBE next year depending on how he does this year he can take the #2 away from Hartline, but it is not a guarntee at all, his great camps and practices could turn into nothing, just saying i wouldnt go as far as making a statement that Gates "will be" a #3 or #2 next season

Odrick showed promise in his 1 game he got to play, he also won a starting spot on one of the more talented DL in football, nobody said he was going to be in the HOF

30 isnt old, but in terms of football years, it certainly is not young and if it is prime, there usually isnt much left (in most cases)

My mistake for not clarifying about the WRs.

30 for guys like Scott and pouha who didn't play much when they were younger is a better 30 than a guy who has played since day 1.