- May 19, 2017
- Reaction score
- High Point, NC
From a positional value perspective, going quarterback, left tackle and corner made a lot of sense. I think that was part of the OP's point. But Grier left better players on the board IMO.Me. I would never draft a running back in the first round. I'm sorry, the position just doesn't carry that type of value anymore. It's easy to sit here and say Taylor is a better player than Igbinoghene in hindsight, but conerback is a much higher value position and Howard was coming off an injury and wasn't playing at the level he is now so corner was a need regardless of what most of the idiots on this site think. It's the one thing I believe this front office has gotten right. They haven't overvalued the running back position. They were way too early in the total rebuild process to ever consider a running back in the first round. It would be like putting a silk hat on a pig. I do agree though, that the second round of that year's draft would have been the sweet spot to have drafted a running back. Jonathan Taylor, Cam Akers, and JK Dobbins all went after Miami took Robert Hunt, but even pointing this out kind of makes my point. Akers and Dobbins both went down for the whole season before week one even started.
I agree with this.Good post…I would argue that Grier certainly drafted support for Tua, but the decisions were far from great!
I also think some veteran O-line help mixed with the youth would have been better than what Grier chose to do!
I think Flores has already damaged his own reputation regarding attracting assistants!
Yep, very true. Not saying Grier picked great players. In fact, I had my reservations about many of them, including Robert Hunt, Iggy, and a few others. I'm just saying that Grier spent his resources in an attempt to build around Tua ... he put FA money into the OL, and he put lots of draft picks into the OL. He got rid of the backup who was better than Tua. Coach Flo fully handed the reins over to Tua and brought in his QB whisperer, then promoted his own guys to tailor an offense around him. Grier drafted Tua's favorite target with our top draft pick. Grier and Flo gave Tua everything they could to help him succeed .... which is what a FO is supposed to do for a young QB.What good is it so spend all those picks on the line if the players aren’t good? Did Grier try to help Tua? Sure. But he didn’t ultimately help him by putting a strong line in front of him? Absolutely not
I agree that they tried but failed. Also They did not put free agency money into the line. They spent on one free agency G in the last two years. That’s itYep, very true. Not saying Grier picked great players. In fact, I had my reservations about many of them, including Robert Hunt, Iggy, and a few others. I'm just saying that Grier spent his resources in an attempt to build around Tua ... he put FA money into the OL, and he put lots of draft picks into the OL. He got rid of the backup who was better than Tua. Coach Flo fully handed the reins over to Tua and brought in his QB whisperer, then promoted his own guys to tailor an offense around him. Grier drafted Tua's favorite target with our top draft pick. Grier and Flo gave Tua everything they could to help him succeed .... which is what a FO is supposed to do for a young QB.
Whether they're good at picking talent or developing it ..... that's just a different question.
Stop, nearly every move you claim was not a problem, literally was. Grier is a buffoon who can’t draft. His input is THE reason this organization has sucked for 15 yearsIm rambling the **** out of this post so if you dont have a couple of minutes to read it once, and then another couple of times just to get what it actually means, just move on.
Let me start off by saying there's not one single move this FO made in the last 2 years that was a **** move(questionable at worst) when looked at individually.. These moves when looked at individually were all legit, its when you look at the overall strategy that things start to look... Inadequate for a lack of a better word. I'll just keep this one on the offense because quite frankly, this D has warts but its good enough to win games in the NFL provided you field a top 10 offense, which is what you should always be striving for.
Picking Jackson at #18 is not a problem, picking Eich at #42 is not a problem, picking hunt at #39 is not a problem, picking Kindley at #111 is definitely not a problem. Picking Tua over Herbert at #5 was definitely not a problem. I mean sure hindsight captains will tell you all along Herbert was definitely the guy, but thats a very small amount of people and even then half of them hated Tua more than they liked Herbert.
So whats the problem? If all these moves were correct, how the **** does this offense suck so bad?
We often come across guys who's whole argument centers around "These guys are pros and you're sitting on your couch, I'll trust the pros to do their jobs". This is basically correct, you're not getting resistance from me on that one. Grier is absolutely better at evaluation footaball players than we are, Flores is obviously a better football coach than anyone here(hopefully) and basically everyone on the Fins coaching staff most probably know WTF they're doing.
That being said, having a bunch of competent people doesnt automatically bring success. You absolutely need someone to coordinate all these guys, formulate an overall strategy that makes sense and make sure everyone knows their role and execute it at a high level. This is where the Fins literally suck on offense. There is absolutely nothing that makes sense on the way this offense is built and run. They are actually doing worst than a coinflip.
There's nothing to evaluate on offense right now because the OL is incapable of giving even below average time for plays to develop.
Quick view of the OL: 2nd year, 2nd year, 3rd year(IR), 2nd year, Davis(who got the QB smashed in 1.9 seconds, and who's backup is, you guessed it, a rookie)
Quick view of the OL coach: 1st year(was playing in the NFL just 5 years ago)
Quick view of the QB: 2nd year(IR)
No one, not one player was put in position to succeed. Every single one of these players were put in a group that was just as clueless as they are. I'd bet a huge amount that any single one of these players would've performed a decent amount better if they were put next to a vet, or at the very least coached by someone who knows what the **** they're doing. I bet Jackson would've been alot better if he came into a situation where there were 3-4 vets on the OL, and I bet that statement is true for anyone of the green OL.
I also bet Tua would've looked alot better if he didnt play behind a group of OL that are all lost and the only one to look up to is someone who is also lost. Picks and money is great, but if all your picks go into the same unit or function, its a problem. All these coaches and management guys are probably good at what they do, but someone needs to oversee the overall strategy because right now, everyone seems to do as they please and the final product is alot of **** that dont make sense.
It wasn’t just the hip situation, it was the series of injuries his final two years at Alabama as well that raised red flags for many!
I don’t have a head count of where other GM’s stood and won’t pretend to know, but…..there was much debate at the time amongst NFL people now in the media about the merits of both. Including many who favored Herbert over the smallish, less athletic Tua….with injury prone concerns. We also now have the tidbit of info that within the organization Marino had favored Herbert and that Grier overrode that advice.
So I can’t give Grier a pass on the situation when evaluating my opinion of his performance.
I know personally, it was all of the above plus watching Tua fall short in big games against Clemson and LSU those final two years, strange turnovers by him at big moments in those games that made my mind up!
I personally put less stock in the freshman year coming off the bench win over Georgia than the above.
I don’t personally think most considered The Chargers a better landing spot than Miami prior to the 2020 draft.
I would argue the failure of Grier and Flores and Tua’s continued injury prone streak, coupled with the excellent play of Herbert, have created that perception.
I agree that if we had just addressed the offensive line correctly we'd be in way better shape..still in contention for the playoffs with Tua still likely the QB. And I agree Grier underestimated the value of veterans on the OL in particular. I know we spent some high picks on the OL but really, to get 2 starting tackles, they actually reached for their picks. AJ was the 5th tackle taken that year and universally thought of as a reach. Liam Eichenberg fell to the 2nd. And Robert Hunt went in the 2nd, when plug-and-play OT starters are usually first-round picks and only 2-3 exist per class. Looking back they should have been willing to overpay a bit in FA to get at least 1 anchor at one of the tackle spots -- that would have been worth more to us than byron jones. Then, be willing to pay what it's worth to actually get a top tackle in the draft.Im rambling the **** out of this post so if you dont have a couple of minutes to read it once, and then another couple of times just to get what it actually means, just move on.
Completely agree, they tried and failed. But they brought in Ted Karras as a FA and that was a good move. Unfortunately, they did the Dolphin thing and made it a one year prove-it contract instead of a very cheap multi-year deal or a deal with an option that was available for peanuts to the Dolphins. Then Karras proved to be a pretty decent C and organized the line well .... and suddenly he commanded a LOT more money and we couldn't/didn't re-sign him. Money put into the OL, but poor contract strategy.I agree that they tried but failed. Also They did not put free agency money into the line. They spent on one free agency G in the last two years. That’s it