Am I the only one that cringes at EVERY single trade up scenario ?

[ATL_PHIN_FAN]

Agree, with some qualifications. I don't know if there is one poster with 'whatever it takes' who posts it a lot, or multiple posters. He/Those are the ones apparently willing to give too much. For the rest of us, it comes down to opinion of a reasonable price. Two R1 picks? One R1 pick in '20 and 1. I have no problem with this discussion. I would, however, like a thread on what FH thinks Grier/Flo will do. Personally, I think they won't give a lot of assets, but that's just an opinion. I'm not even 100$ certain Tua is the only target at $5.

While many are focusing on the hip, I'm not sold Tua is the 'generational talent' some claim. He looks the part of a potentially elite QB, but that's as far as I'll go. What are the odds he'll be the next JAG? 0.05% 5%? 50? No idea. But the risk is there.

I admit, I'm scarred by the constant use of "gamble," always focusing on requiring a big gamble to win big. 1) By definition, a big gamble carries with it a large chance of failure. I don't like big risks. 2) Miami doesn't have to get the next 'generational talent. It has to get a top QB. Getting a top QB with a lower asset cost sounds good to me. But, yes, I realize there is still a risk

Agreed. Miami needs a QB they are confident is worthy of the value and time they intend to put into him. They need no more than that. Would they be thrilled to have more than that fall into their laps? OF COURSE they would.

I think what's more likely to happen is Flo will have Grier take whomever he's comfortable with. If Flo has conviction about Tua, they'll take him at 5.

But I do not think he'll reach for him. Rather, he'll take the next best thing. If, and only if, there is a next best QB Flo is comfy with. If not, he'll just go with what he's got and continue to build the team at other positions. Then, hope for more worthy choices in '21.

 

[EJay]

Exactly. That's why many on here like me want to get the best QB possible so that Miami's window for success stays open a lot longer than teams that need so many other unsustainable facets of their team to work for them to have repeated success. Both Tennessee and San Francisco had nearly everything go right for them and they still came up short, meanwhile Kansas City kind of floundered around for the better part of two playoff games and the Super Bowl and still managed to win it all because of elite level play from Patrick Mahomes. Take a look at the analytic numbers of a team like Seattle. The QB play from Wilson carried the success of that team.

I agree with you that having that type of QB surely makes it easier. And leaves the window open longer. No argument there. I’m just saying it’s not an absolute necessity. The team can still win w/o one of the top 3-5 QB’s in the entire league. Many teams have done it.

As @Mach2 said, this team has so many gaping holes that they can’t afford the luxury of trading away numerous picks to move up for a QB that they don‘t even know will work out. They should use all their current picks and get a QB at 5 or 18 or even later.

 

[Kamelion4291]

I agree with you that having that type of QB surely makes it easier. And leaves the window open longer. No argument there. I’m just saying it’s not an absolute necessity. The team can still win w/o one of the top 3-5 QB’s in the entire league. Many teams have done it.

As @Mach2 said, this team has so many gaping holes that they can’t afford the luxury of trading away numerous picks to move up for a QB that they don‘t even know will work out. They use all their current picks and get a QB at 5 or 18 or even later.

They traded for the picks precisely so that they could trade up for a QB if necessary.

 

[marino13zach54]

Marino happen to spend the bulk of his career in the same division with an AFC dynasty in the Buffalo Bills who also happened to have a hall of fame QB. Plus it was a different era. The rules now favor the passing game more than they did during Marino's time.

I used to be a QB first, most important guy. But take a look at how San Fran made Mahomes look pedestrian for the majority of that SB, what the Patriots did to the Mcvay.

I've changed my philosophy. Give me a strong defense and running game/Oline

I know that above can only get you so far. You need a star QB. But, I tell you, behind our oline, only Deshaun Watson or Russel Wilson could probably excel.

That's why I'm beating, burrying and exhuming the horse to beat again when I say that there is no way I'm starting whatever QB we draft. Burrow, Tua, the next Marino- doesn't matter. I sit the kid until I know we can protect him.

 

[Kamelion4291]

I used to be a QB first, most important guy. But take a look at how San Fran made Mahomes look pedestrian for the majority of that SB, what the Patriots did to the Mcvay.

I've changed my philosophy. Give me a strong defense and running game/Oline

I know that above can only get you so far. You need a star QB. But, I tell you, behind our oline, only Deshaun Watson or Russel Wilson could probably excel.

That's why I'm beating, burrying and exhuming the horse to beat again when I say that there is no way I'm starting whatever QB we draft. Burrow, Tua, the next Marino- doesn't matter. I sit the kid until I know we can protect him.

San Francisco had statistically the best pass defense of all-time some time late into the season (not sure if they finished with the record) and it still didn't matter. That's not a realistically attainable bar. Also, McVay had Goff who is just another Tannehill with a better system.

That said, I completely agree that whichever QB we get should sit out the season. This line needs a massive overhaul.

 

[EJay]

I used to be a QB first, most important guy. But take a look at how San Fran made Mahomes look pedestrian for the majority of that SB, what the Patriots did to the Mcvay.

I've changed my philosophy. Give me a strong defense and running game/Oline

Truth is, there‘s not just one way to do it. Throughout the history of all pro sports, organizations have tried a myriad of different ways to accomplish the same goal. Some methods have been more successful than others, but none are foolproof.

 

[Mach2]

Truth is, there‘s not just one way to do it. Throughout the history of all pro sports, organizations have tried a myriad of different ways to accomplish the same goal. Some methods have been more successful than others, but none are foolproof.

Agreed, but there are some universal truths, a couple of which are:

You need a certain amount of actual "talent".

You need good coaching.

 

[Digital]

I agree about the meaningless wins in that it may hurt us in the coming draft.
But the NFL is built around 3 major components to winning: QB, HC & Owner.
The HC flashed some last year- so those wins - well maybe they aren’t meaningless.
The Owner doesn’t mind spending & Miami provides a top 5 location in league given weather- taxes- opportunity etc.
Now it’s time to get the QB. It’s a QB league - if you have to give up an extra pick or 2 you do it.
You know why? Because the Bosas and the Garrett’s as dominant as they may be- aren’t the end all. The QB IS.
Yes we have to put together an OL and improve certain areas but you need the QB.

I agree, but honestly, for me the Head Coach is by far the most important. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have the second coming of Dan Marino ... in fact nothing I'd like more. But a good head coach wins with any NFL team, and a great NFL coach builds a dynasty and stays at double-digit wins almost every year. I'm firmly in the camp that the Patriots dynasty is down to Belichick, and without Brady, they'll keep on dominating until Belichick leaves.

But getting a top coach is nearly impossible ... the good ones don't leave. How long has Jerry Jones been trying to get Sean Payton to come home to Dallas? A dozen years at least. Andry Reid left, but that is rare. Belichick was turning around the browns when the team left town, so you can't really say he left. Here's hoping that Coach Flo is one of those guys ... but the odds are against it.

If we stockpile talent, that will at least give us a pretty big boost for the next 5-10 years, so even if it doesn't work out, we'll have a solid talent base for whomever the coach is.

QB's win games, teams win Super Bowls. But hey, with this many draft picks and drafting #5 overall ... we can get both. :)

 

[rickd13]

I agree, but honestly, for me the Head Coach is by far the most important. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have the second coming of Dan Marino ... in fact nothing I'd like more. But a good head coach wins with any NFL team, and a great NFL coach builds a dynasty and stays at double-digit wins almost every year. I'm firmly in the camp that the Patriots dynasty is down to Belichick, and without Brady, they'll keep on dominating until Belichick leaves.

But getting a top coach is nearly impossible ... the good ones don't leave. How long has Jerry Jones been trying to get Sean Payton to come home to Dallas? A dozen years at least. Andry Reid left, but that is rare. Belichick was turning around the browns when the team left town, so you can't really say he left. Here's hoping that Coach Flo is one of those guys ... but the odds are against it.

If we stockpile talent, that will at least give us a pretty big boost for the next 5-10 years, so even if it doesn't work out, we'll have a solid talent base for whomever the coach is.

QB's win games, teams win Super Bowls. But hey, with this many draft picks and drafting #5 overall ... we can get both. :)

I'll take that bet. Sure, Belichick will have solid teams that will be competitive, but there is no way he is dominating anything without Brady. This is exactly why I hope Brady leaves via free agency this year. It would be comical watching the Patriots try to win with the likes of the Andy Dalton's or Marcus Mariota's of the world. Oh by the way, the "QB" just beat the "team" in the last Super Bowl.

 

[uk_dolfan]

trade up? we should have the number one pick.

 

[Krush]

If Rosen is not part of any trade scenario before the draft then i think that the phins will most likely roll with him and with Fitzpatrick as the backup, no need to draft a QB early, most likely move down maybe to #10 to gather more draft assets and pick Andrew Thomas which will start a rebuilding of the O- line.

 

[Fin-Loco]

For the love of god, PLEASE just KEEP your picks and choose the best available player that fits a need. We gave up extremely valuable, young, cheap assets in Fitz and Tunsil to acquire the additional early picks, why would you piss the bed and give them away just to move up two spots?!!! We know Burrow and Chase Young will be two of the top 4 picks. If Tua is taken ahead of us, then so be it. Take Herbert. Take Love. If you aren't in love with either of them then take the best available player and take a QB next year. Draft a QB later in the draft. There are so many freaking options that do not involve giving away valuable picks. We have many holes to plug and our front office worked hard to acquire the draft picks necessary to plug those holes. Now use them. Don't blow through your cap space to fill them. USE YOUR PICKS on young, talented , hungry, prospects dying to prove themselves and willing to be developed. Trading up has never worked in the past for this team (Dion Jordan , Leonte Caroo to name a couple) and it's not going to work now.

Don't let the media and stupid fans and their obsession with certain players alter your decision making. Do your job.

Keep. The. Picks.

I don't. I cringe that we might not demonstrate the flexibility we need to make the most of the draft. We're 20+ years since we had a Pro Bowl Qb. As such, we're also 20+ years from being consistently relevant. Gotta fix the QB position and OL if that's ALL we add this year though of course it won't be.

 

[rent this space]

I used to be a QB first, most important guy. But take a look at how San Fran made Mahomes look pedestrian for the majority of that SB, what the Patriots did to the Mcvay.

I've changed my philosophy. Give me a strong defense and running game/Oline

I know that above can only get you so far. You need a star QB. But, I tell you, behind our oline, only Deshaun Watson or Russel Wilson could probably excel.

That's why I'm beating, burrying and exhuming the horse to beat again when I say that there is no way I'm starting whatever QB we draft. Burrow, Tua, the next Marino- doesn't matter. I sit the kid until I know we can protect him.

That right there is why I am no longer a defense first-running game guy. I used to believe with a good all-around team and just a decent QB, you cold get it done. I’m sure you can go back and find many posts from me about why we should get the O-line first then grab a QB later. It doesn’t work. We saw that first-hand in 2008. We just saw it in 2019, the Titans(historic running game) and the 49ers(historic defense) couldn’t get it done. Mahomes’ struggles in Super Bowl were as much about him as the defense he faced.
The league has decided to make this game all about the QB so you have to get a good one. And this coach has shown the ability to win with less so I say do what you have to do to get your QB first then figure out the rest. Sit him for a year if you have to but get him when you can.

 

[dagger151]

Since when do we have ANY guarantees that picking Tua, or any QB top 5 nets us a pro bowler? Aaron Rodgers was picked late 1st rd, Drew Brees, second round, Marino, end of 1st round, Lamar Jackson...I can go on and on. Point being is that trading multiple picks, especially in the 1st round to trade up for an injured prospect is foolish. As many have commented, we need an OL to protect the investment at QB, but with a leaky defense, you wont win games. There are so many holes, acquire picks and roll the dice on talent with BPA. We can make trades later with any abundance of one position. Its the Patriot way that has worked for decades and Flo comes from that tree.

Please dont trade up for Tua. If he is there at 5, maybe, but id rather see us take Simmons, Okudah, or Derrick Brown at 5 or trade back a few spots for more picks. Then get Jordan Love if you want to develop someone. Love has the athletic ability and mobility we need with a sub par OL.

Id also like to see what Rosen can do with a simplified offense and some protection.

 

[Mach2]

That right there is why I am no longer a defense first-running game guy. I used to believe with a good all-around team and just a decent QB, you cold get it done. I’m sure you can go back and find many posts from me about why we should get the O-line first then grab a QB later. It doesn’t work. We saw that first-hand in 2008. We just saw it in 2019, the Titans(historic running game) and the 49ers(historic defense) couldn’t get it done. Mahomes’ struggles in Super Bowl were as much about him as the defense he faced.
The league has decided to make this game all about the QB so you have to get a good one. And this coach has shown the ability to win with less so I say do what you have to do to get your QB first then figure out the rest. Sit him for a year if you have to but get him when you can.

Can I assume Tua is the object of your desire, or is whatever Flo/Grier decides OK with you?