Are the Dolphins more talented than last year?

[Phanatical]

Culpepper has 164 TDs to 124 TOs
Frerotte has 100 TDs to 96 TOs

Frerotte: 1.04 to Culpepper 1.32

Over 1 year that's a 3-6 or so TD difference... 3-6 TDs in a season can make or break a season...

OK, looks like you added rushing TD's??? Good point and pickup. Yes, I agree, with what you are saying. But, back to your original point, of Frerottes last years performance......

23 TD's (including Rushing TD's like you did), and 17 total turnovers = 1.35 ratio, better than Daunte's career ratio. So, back to your original point, where you were saying that Frerotte was turning the ball over too much last year???? Do you still think so? If so, what does that say about CP's career?

 

[Phanatical]

Well, I include fumbles (whether lost or not) by the QB's in assessing how good a caretaker of the ball they are.

Last year, here's how it looked:

QB Fumbles INT's TOTAL
Favre 10 29 39
Bledsoe 17 17 34
Delhomme 12 16 28
Carr 17 11 28
E. Manning 17 9 26
Collins 13 12 25
Orton 12 13 25
Vick 11 13 24
Frerotte 10 13 23

So Gus comes 9th on that list. Granted, not all those fumbles were lost, but I am not going to rate Gus based on how well other players managed to dive on his cases of the dropsies.

There are some good QB's in that group, though admittedly it's a group that turns the ball over a little too much. Overall, Gus did a good job and had a career high for TD's thrown at 18, but only Orton (9) and Carr (14) out of that group threw for less TD's than Gus in a group making that many mistakes.

Again, I think Daunte has the rep of some turnover problems, but people over-exagerrate how great Gus was at protecting the ball. If you believe the stats, he was in the bottom third of NFL starting QB's when it came to that. Not terrible, but not great.

OK, Frerotte turned it over less than all of those QB's. What about the rest of the league? Are you saying the rest of the starting QB's turned it over less than Frerotte?

 

[feelthepain]

Wow, another insanely emotional post.

First off, I wasn't basing this on the Steelers game. I was doing a position by position analysis of talent. You're way off base. Go back and re-read the thread and come back when you have something worth saying.

How am I way off??? How can you grade the talent on this team??? Is it just your opinion the talent is less, or do you have proof??? I don't know what your problem is, but I haven't had one post in this thread filled with any emotion at all. You don't like my answeres or opinion, oh well it doesn't hurt my feelings. You start a thread then get offended people don't agree with your less then thought out question. So your conclusion is someone is full of emotion??? You seem to see a lot of things that don't exist. You think we have less talent, but how can you prove that??? How do you know the talent is less?? Is it because you didn't see the results you were looking for in the Steelers game??

Is it because good players have a "green dot" on their unis and bad players have a "red dot" and most of our players have red dots??? I mean seriously, what is your method of determination as to how we've downgraded?? I don't agree we've downgraded and my logic is Saban knows what he wants from the players he signs and simce he signed them it means he likes the way they could play in the system he wants to run....now call me crazy, but that seems like about the best way we can determine at this point in the season if the talent at this time is an upgrade.

 

[Colorado Dolfan]

OK, looks like you added rushing TD's??? Good point and pickup. Yes, I agree, with what you are saying. But, back to your original point, of Frerottes last years performance......

23 TD's (including Rushing TD's like you did), and 17 total turnovers = 1.35 ratio, better than Daunte's career ratio. So, back to your original point, where you were saying that Frerotte was turning the ball over too much last year???? Do you still think so? If so, what does that say about CP's career?

Frerotte had 0 rushing TDs last year... So my point stands... :D

He's had 5 rushing TDs in his whole career...

 

[dgarrisonb]

Ok let's put a end to this. Ferrotte had a crappy game against the Browns last year. Here are the stats. G. Frerotte 4/18 53 2.9yards per throw.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but CP had a touchdown at least. As far as the O line with Jaxoc it is an upgrade. we have lost Mckinney but we are still a bit stronger with Shelton and Mac back in full force. I believe they will become more of a cohesive unit.

 

[Colorado Dolfan]

OK, Frerotte turned it over less than all of those QB's. What about the rest of the league? Are you saying the rest of the starting QB's turned it over less than Frerotte?

Here are all the starting QBs in the league and theire TD/TO ratios, as well as some of our previous starters... Of course this research was done before the beginning of the season and the stats may be out of whack, especially for the starters with limited playing time...

All Teams Starters TD/TO ratio
1. Colts- Manning, P: 1.74/1
2. Steelers- Roethlisberger 1.65/1
3. Jets- Pennington: 1.57/1
4. Titans- Volek: 1.56/1
5. Eagles- McNabb: 1.53/1
6. Bengals- Palmer: 1.52/1
7. Seahawks- Hasselbeck: 1.51/1
8. Patriots- Brady: 1.43/1
9. Redskins- Brunell: 1.42/1
10. Ravens- McNair: 1.40/1
11. Chiefs- Green: 1.37/1
12. Dolphins- Culpepper: 1.34/1
13. Saints- Brees: 1.33/1
14. Vikings- Johnson, B: 1.30/1
15. Packers- Favre: 1.29/1
16. Raiders- Brooks: 1.24/1
17. Jaguars- Leftwich: 1.22/1
18. Rams- Bulger: 1.20/1
19. Cardinals- Warner: 1.16/1
20. Panthers- Delhomme: 1.13/1
21. Falcons- Vick: 1.09/1
22. Giants- Manning, E: 1.03/1
23. Chargers- Rivers: 1.00/1
24. Cowboys- Bledsoe: 0.99/1
25. Broncos- Plummer: 0.92/1
26. Lions- Kitna: 0.89/1
27. Texans- Carr: 0.79/1
28. Buccaneers- Simms: 0.69/1
29. Bears- Grossman: 0.63/1
30. Bills- Losman: 0.62/1
31. Browns- Frye: 0.56/1
32. 49ers- Smith: 0.07/1


Past Dolphins QBs
1. Frerotte: 1.04/1
2. Rosenfels: 1.00/1
3. Fiedler: 0.95/1
4. Lucas: 0.92/1
5. Feeley: 0.74/1

 

[Phanatical]

Ok let's put a end to this. Ferrotte had a crappy game against the Browns last year. Here are the stats. G. Frerotte 4/18 53 2.9yards per throw.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but CP had a touchdown at least. As far as the O line with Jaxoc it is an upgrade. we have lost Mckinney but we are still a bit stronger with Shelton and Mac back in full force. I believe they will become more of a cohesive unit.

Frerrotte came into that game at the very end of the 3rd quarter, while injured, and the team was already down 23-0.

You are wrong, CP didn't have a TD.

 

[Bpk]

Pretty Much

OK, Frerotte turned it over less than all of those QB's. What about the rest of the league? Are you saying the rest of the starting QB's turned it over less than Frerotte?

I am saying that every other starting QB in the NFL last year who is not on that list protected the ball better than Gus, yes. They protected it better by throwing less INTS and putting the ball on the ground less.

As I said, I prefer to look at how many times a player fumbles to ball, NOT how many fumbles are lost when I am assessing that particular player's own ability to protect the football. Why? Because a guy who fumbles 10 times and his team recovers 8 of them is only luckier than a guy who fumbles 10 times but his team only recovers 2 of them, he is not more skilled nor better at protecting the ball because of what other people do once he fumbles it.

Overall then, Gus was ninth worst in the league when it came to combined INTs and Fumbles.

Again, I do think he had a good season, and that he threw a decent number of TD's, but I wouldn't speciafically praise and hail him as a great protector of the ball while accusing Daunte of being terrible at it. Daune is below average at protecting the ball, and Gus is slightly, but only slightly, better.

I see other people found stats to bear that out.

 

[Bpk]

And..

As pointed out by some others on this board, CP throws more TDs than Frerotte, so his TD to Turnover ratio is a bit more favorable.

B.

 

[Phanatical]

Here are all the starting QBs in the league and theire TD/TO ratios, as well as some of our previous starters... Of course this research was done before the beginning of the season and the stats may be out of whack, especially for the starters with limited playing time...

All Teams Starters TD/TO ratio
1. Colts- Manning, P: 1.74/1
2. Steelers- Roethlisberger 1.65/1
3. Jets- Pennington: 1.57/1
4. Titans- Volek: 1.56/1
5. Eagles- McNabb: 1.53/1
6. Bengals- Palmer: 1.52/1
7. Seahawks- Hasselbeck: 1.51/1
8. Patriots- Brady: 1.43/1
9. Redskins- Brunell: 1.42/1
10. Ravens- McNair: 1.40/1
11. Chiefs- Green: 1.37/1
12. Dolphins- Culpepper: 1.34/1
13. Saints- Brees: 1.33/1
14. Vikings- Johnson, B: 1.30/1
15. Packers- Favre: 1.29/1
16. Raiders- Brooks: 1.24/1
17. Jaguars- Leftwich: 1.22/1
18. Rams- Bulger: 1.20/1
19. Cardinals- Warner: 1.16/1
20. Panthers- Delhomme: 1.13/1
21. Falcons- Vick: 1.09/1
22. Giants- Manning, E: 1.03/1
23. Chargers- Rivers: 1.00/1
24. Cowboys- Bledsoe: 0.99/1
25. Broncos- Plummer: 0.92/1
26. Lions- Kitna: 0.89/1
27. Texans- Carr: 0.79/1
28. Buccaneers- Simms: 0.69/1
29. Bears- Grossman: 0.63/1
30. Bills- Losman: 0.62/1
31. Browns- Frye: 0.56/1
32. 49ers- Smith: 0.07/1


Past Dolphins QBs
1. Frerotte: 1.04/1
2. Rosenfels: 1.00/1
3. Fiedler: 0.95/1
4. Lucas: 0.92/1
5. Feeley: 0.74/1

Wow, nice work. Lets get Feeley back. LOL.

 

[rainmaker1313]

IM sorry i stopped reading after you said Culpepper was a downgrade

You got that far?? WOW!

 

[Phanatical]

As pointed out by some others on this board, CP throws more TDs than Frerotte, so his TD to Turnover ratio is a bit more favorable.

B.

Yep. I acknowledged in my original post that he is an upgrade, but that his first game performance was bad. "The others" and I, were merely on a sidetrack issue of wether or not Frerotte turned the ball over "a LOT" last year. I would say, that with his 18 TD's and 17 turnovers, that wasn't a LOT. Anyway, What about the rest of the team???? Do you think it has been Upgraded???? Besides Culpepper, I don't think so.

 

[Phanatical]

I am saying that every other starting QB in the NFL last year who is not on that list protected the ball better than Gus, yes. They protected it better by throwing less INTS and putting the ball on the ground less.
.

I think not. Here are some others that I quickly found, not on your list, that had as many, or more turnovers:

Brady 17 turnovers.
Brees 20 turnovers.
Carr 17 turnovers.
Manning, Eli 19 turnovers.

Just about every starting QB, that played at least 14 games last year, had more turnovers than Frerotte did last year. As someone else pointed out though, the TD/Turnover ratio put Frerotte near the lower 1/4th of the starters. Again, this thread isn't about wether Daunte is better than Frerotte, it's about wether or not the TEAM has upgraded their talent. Besides, Culpepper, WHERE HAS THIS TEAM UPGRADED?

 

[Phanatical]

wouldn't speciafically praise and hail him as a great protector of the ball while accusing Daunte of being terrible at it..

Noone was doing that bud. I was merely pointing out that Frerotte's performance last year wasnt' horrible as some are accusing him of.

 

[Vertical Limit]

Is this team more talented than last year? Won't know untill January. If we aren't in the playoffs this year, then I'll say no.