Deep Threats: Mike Wallace vs Kenny Stills

[enigmatics]

This is the stuff I find hilarious (to you and all the other posters who felt the need to quote me).

People read a scouting report and combine numbers like that is the judge/jury. Like they've watched the snaps he's put in with the Saints like they have with Mike Wallace here in Miami. I truthfully haven't seen a ton of him with the Saints, but I saw quite a bit of him at Oklahoma . . . I have a pretty good idea of what type of WR he is.

Wallace is much faster on the field than Stills is, commands more respect and can separate from defenders on another level. The disrespect he's getting because he doesn't make "jump ball catches" is just unwarranted. But hey, what else should I expect?

Is Stills better at it, yea I guess so . . . but lets not pretend he is some all world talent at WR or that he's a better WR than Mike Wallace. He just isn't, at least not yet. Posters on Finheaven have the tendency to put these guys on a pedastool and then a year or 2 later go ape**** on the coach and the GM, when that's the player they cosigned to begin with.

"Oh Dansby is old and overpaid and so is Burnett, we got younger and faster at linebacker with Wheeler and Ellerbe I love what Jeff Ireland has done" . . . . yea ok . . . hell people defended Naanee in 2012 because of their disdain for Brandon Marshall, saw what he did with Rivers in San Diego and actually had the nerve to think the fall off wouldn't be that big. Oh I love Keller and Moreno signings, go GM go, and then when they get hurt . . . "Ireland should of had a backup plan and all Hickey did was bring in hurt guys". So when people show a little concern about the moves in regards to throwing Cameron and Clay big money . . . . understand the track record and what we've seen.

I like the fit here for Stills better than I did for Wallace, and I like the trades (because of cap ramifications and what was going to be the result in 2016 . . . Wallace cut) but a lot of that has to do with the QB and what he is good at.

So much win here. I remember those days and they were freaking nauseating. I remember hearing "This offense doesn't need a #1 receiver" when we signed LegaPooPoo.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Wallace is much faster on the field than Stills is, commands more respect and can separate from defenders on another level. The disrespect he's getting because he doesn't make "jump ball catches" is just unwarranted. But hey, what else should I expect?

Speaking as someone who has watched both players in the NFL quite a bit, you are right in some respects, but I can't agree with this in its entirety. Kenny Stills is a more complete player than Mike Wallace. However, as you rightly point out, he simply does not have Mike Wallace's game-changing speed. He is fast enough to stretch the field and get deep, but no, he is not Mike Wallace fast. And just who is MW fast? Maybe Torrey Smith? You don't need that kind of speed to be a deep threat, and similarly, we also shouldn't assume that that kind of speed is somehow an elite, earth-shattering talent all by itself. Mike Wallace matched his career high for touchdowns this season, and that was ten. That's a lot of touchdowns, but that's not an irreplaceable number of touchdowns. That's not Jimmy Graham or Rob Gronkowski touchdown production.

We have removed a locker room cancer and freed up a significant amount of cap space by removing Wallace. We did not replace him with an identical player (because nobody out there could do that), but we did replace him with a player who can create space on the field and might prove to be better at doing some of the things that frustrated coaches and fans about Mike Wallace's play. And if you are one of those guys who thinks the deep ball problem is all Tannehill, then GREAT! We moved a very expensive deep threat and replaced him with a very cheap deep threat.

We don't know if Kenny Stills will prove to be a good player here in Miami, but he WAS a good player in New Orleans. That's just a fact. As it is a fact that Mike Wallace was a good player in Miami in 2014. Both players had issues with their coaches, and possibly quarterbacks, and that is a big part of why they were traded. Fact. I like Mike Wallace the player, and I think he could have been a big contributor to the Dolphins in 2015, but you can't just whitewash over all of the issues he's had on the sidelines as well as pretend that he doesn't have some holes in his game.

We'll see if this works out. As I see it, the worst case scenario here is we were able to get something in return for a guy we were going to cut anyway.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Oh, and one more thing.

There are two big clouds of opinion concerning Mike Wallace. One of those clouds exists solely in the stratosphere of Dolphins fandom, and the other exists pretty much everywhere else.

Nobody outside of the Dolphins fanbase thinks that Mike Wallace contract was good or reasonable. Even within the fanbase most of us tried to justify it with "Well, you have to overpay in free agency and we were desperate, so it's not that bad" because we were stuck with it and it stinks to come on to a Dolphins fan board and admit that we signed a guy to a dog**** contract.

All you have to do is look at what people outside of the bubble are saying today. People are impressed that the team managed to swing a cheap trade for a very promising young player and then turned around to dump a horrible contract off on the Vikings. It's funny because Vikings fans are DOING THE SAME THING WE DID TWO YEARS AGO. "Well, I know the guy has some issues... and I know the contract is awful... but look at our receiving corps! It's awful! We need the help!"

Good luck to Mike in Minnesota. I mean it. He's a great talent, and watching him blow by people is fun. He's exciting. But he needs to pull his head out of his ****ing ass.

 

[RoKnRuiN]

I wasn't sure I bought into Tannenbaum's Statistics-led approach, or well rather didn't believe he really was this great statician since he never shown it in NYJ.

But boy, has it paid off.

On paper....

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

On paper....

All of these moves could turn out to be duds. Suh could tear his Achilles in the preseason. Jordan Cameron could take a huge hit to the head and decide to retire. etc. etc. etc.

But a lot of things that are being done are things that we here on Finheaven have pounded the table for for some time now.

- Seam busting red zone threat TE: check
- Player who brings some real attitude to the defense: check
- Brian Hartline no longer wasting snaps: check
- No more paying for 33 year old washed up guys on their last legs: check
- Jimmy Wilson replaced: check
- Actually having a damn plan for replacing receivers we are moving on from: check
- Not overpaying our own guys who are good but not really difference-makers: check

So you're right that we don't know how any of this will pan out, but it's tough to be disappointed when the team goes and attacks things that we here on FH have felt were problems for a while now...

 

[finfan54]

Tannenbaum ridded us from that contract. That was holding us hostage to Mike Wallace controlling the "egg shell" atmosphere that would have existed here. He blew up relationships with that act.

 

[RoKnRuiN]

I'm excited too...

[video=youtube;mO-KZni9pI0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO-KZni9pI0&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[enigmatics]

Speaking as someone who has watched both players in the NFL quite a bit, you are right in some respects, but I can't agree with this in its entirety. Kenny Stills is a more complete player than Mike Wallace. However, as you rightly point out, he simply does not have Mike Wallace's game-changing speed. He is fast enough to stretch the field and get deep, but no, he is not Mike Wallace fast. And just who is MW fast? Maybe Torrey Smith? You don't need that kind of speed to be a deep threat, and similarly, we also shouldn't assume that that kind of speed is somehow an elite, earth-shattering talent all by itself. Mike Wallace matched his career high for touchdowns this season, and that was ten. That's a lot of touchdowns, but that's not an irreplaceable number of touchdowns. That's not Jimmy Graham or Rob Gronkowski touchdown production.

We have removed a locker room cancer and freed up a significant amount of cap space by removing Wallace. We did not replace him with an identical player (because nobody out there could do that), but we did replace him with a player who can create space on the field and might prove to be better at doing some of the things that frustrated coaches and fans about Mike Wallace's play. And if you are one of those guys who thinks the deep ball problem is all Tannehill, then GREAT! We moved a very expensive deep threat and replaced him with a very cheap deep threat.

We don't know if Kenny Stills will prove to be a good player here in Miami, but he WAS a good player in New Orleans. That's just a fact. As it is a fact that Mike Wallace was a good player in Miami in 2014. Both players had issues with their coaches, and possibly quarterbacks, and that is a big part of why they were traded. Fact. I like Mike Wallace the player, and I think he could have been a big contributor to the Dolphins in 2015, but you can't just whitewash over all of the issues he's had on the sidelines as well as pretend that he doesn't have some holes in his game.

We'll see if this works out. As I see it, the worst case scenario here is we were able to get something in return for a guy we were going to cut anyway.

There's been no evidence of Wallace being a "cancer". Blatant overstatement of what actually occurred.

 

[Dick Pepperwood]

Brees has regressed and has a noodle arm. He isn't the same QB you think he is. There's a reason why New Orleans is changing to a run-first approach. It's to noodle-proof the offense for him.

Dude in the same way Tom Brady was regressing last year?

Drew Brees
Youngest to 50,000 yards.
Still holds the NFL record for completion percentage in a season.
Super Bowl MVP.
4th in passing touchdowns (363).

Stoked the Dolphins went with Culpepper. That Dude was totally not a noodle arm.

 

[JTC111]

This is the stuff I find hilarious (to you and all the other posters who felt the need to quote me).

People read a scouting report and combine numbers like that is the judge/jury. Like they've watched the snaps he's put in with the Saints like they have with Mike Wallace here in Miami. I truthfully haven't seen a ton of him with the Saints, but I saw quite a bit of him at Oklahoma . . . I have a pretty good idea of what type of WR he is.

Wallace is much faster on the field than Stills is, commands more respect and can separate from defenders on another level. The disrespect he's getting because he doesn't make "jump ball catches" is just unwarranted. But hey, what else should I expect?

Is Stills better at it, yea I guess so . . . but lets not pretend he is some all world talent at WR or that he's a better WR than Mike Wallace. He just isn't, at least not yet. Posters on Finheaven have the tendency to put these guys on a pedastool and then a year or 2 later go ape**** on the coach and the GM, when that's the player they cosigned to begin with.

"Oh Dansby is old and overpaid and so is Burnett, we got younger and faster at linebacker with Wheeler and Ellerbe I love what Jeff Ireland has done" . . . . yea ok . . . hell people defended Naanee in 2012 because of their disdain for Brandon Marshall, saw what he did with Rivers in San Diego and actually had the nerve to think the fall off wouldn't be that big. Oh I love Keller and Moreno signings, go GM go, and then when they get hurt . . . "Ireland should of had a backup plan and all Hickey did was bring in hurt guys". So when people show a little concern about the moves in regards to throwing Cameron and Clay big money . . . . understand the track record and what we've seen.

I like the fit here for Stills better than I did for Wallace, and I like the trades (because of cap ramifications and what was going to be the result in 2016 . . . Wallace cut) but a lot of that has to do with the QB and what he is good at.

I think another factor that people are ignoring is that Wallace almost always had the opposing team's top cornerback on him in man coverage while Stills did not. Perhaps this move works for us but I'm going to take a wait-and-see approach. I'll be pleasantly surprised if our passing offense improves next season, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a dip.

 

[Carne Asada]

Dude in the same way Tom Brady was regressing last year?

Drew Brees
Youngest to 50,000 yards.
Still holds the NFL record for completion percentage in a season.
Super Bowl MVP.
4th in passing touchdowns (363).

Stoked the Dolphins went with Culpepper. That Dude was totally not a noodle arm.

That's an impressive resume of what he HAS done.

 

[I am Bane]

I think another factor that people are ignoring is that Wallace almost always had the opposing team's top cornerback on him in man coverage while Stills did not. Perhaps this move works for us but I'm going to take a wait-and-see approach. I'll be pleasantly surprised if our passing offense improves next season, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a dip.

agreed... plus safeties rolling up often as well.

our offense may struggle a little more without Wallace, but having Stills makes me a little more comfy going into 2015 without him. Stills I believe can add more than the deep threat factor, which i think can help us around the whole field a little more. but i agree once again this is a wait and see, plus Stills has to come in, work and prove himself as well.

 

[Carne Asada]

I think another factor that people are ignoring is that Wallace almost always had the opposing team's top cornerback on him in man coverage while Stills did not. Perhaps this move works for us but I'm going to take a wait-and-see approach. I'll be pleasantly surprised if our passing offense improves next season, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a dip.

The whole point is we want 5 equally capable guys regardless of who they have in front. Packer style.

 

[Carne Asada]

I can answer your first question...no

But is miami gonna put the same gameplan emphasis on stills they did mike wallace? I doubt it...the respect he gets from defenses wont be on reputation but earned...if he gets any...you got to earn it...wallace did that in pittsburgh and as long as he showed he still had jet fueled speed he was gonna have it here

Stills is gonna be in show me mode...the less emphasis he has gameplan wise though the more opportunity you have to sneak him over the top of the defense or get him up against the oppositions weaker corners

True, he won't get double teams, some people think that's bad, IMO, it's good.

If we want him to be the decoy we need, we will have to turn him into it by getting him real highlight reel deep TD throws.

 

[Carne Asada]

I think another factor that people are ignoring is that Wallace almost always had the opposing team's top cornerback on him in man coverage while Stills did not. Perhaps this move works for us but I'm going to take a wait-and-see approach. I'll be pleasantly surprised if our passing offense improves next season, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a dip.

And that's good, he will be open more now corners will respect Jennings (hopefully), Landry, our running game, Cameron and Clay.

Wallace is a deep threat, we will now have a deep aggression.