Dolphins Building The Offensive Line

[Jssanto]

This front office has been swinging and missing on OL for a long, long time. In FA and the draft. Fix the scouting and front office issues first. You can find starters in the mid to late rounds but they usually take years to develop. Sometimes they bounce around the league for a few years and then get a starting job in year 3 or 4 or later. Very few are day 1 starters.

NE is the exception. Not the rule. Look at some of the other highly ranked OL's around the league.

Some of these teams can afford to spend high picks on OL because they have or had a QB in place.

Pittsburgh
LT undrafted
LG undrafted
C 1st round
RG 1st round
RT 2nd round

Dallas
LT 1st
LG 2nd
C 1st
RG 1st
RT would have been a 1st (La'el Collins)

Rams
LT 2nd
LG 2nd
C 6th
RG 7th
RT 2nd

Colts
LT 1st
LG 1st
C 1st
RG 4th
RT 2nd

Saints
LT 3rd
LG 1st
C 2nd
RG 3rd
RT 1st

We have a prob tho. Our picks-Thomas, Asiata, etc- dont seem to develop. Is that poor talent selection or poor coaching?

 

[Blake the great]

The last 2 to 3 years we’ve been told by many pundits in here that the line was fine and it was the quarterbacks fault for the lines play. We were told we just need a new quarterback and everything will be fine. The ones that have been saying we need to fix the offense of line get it.

Yeah we get it. We just don't want to continue to use valuable resources on the O line and have the same results.

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

Also if you look at the GB line, Rodgers is one of the most elusive QBs of all time in the pocket and extending the play

 

[Digital]

Much salivating on the Forum for fans wanting to get much needed help on the OL through drafting this year. Many even hoping for a guard with our #13 pick.

The hated Pats have done it right and it’s obvious to us when we see Brady sitting back there, going through his progressions while we struggle to break through his OL. Year in year out.

Let’s take a look at the Pats OL, and where they were drafted:

Left tackle - 7th round
Left Guard - 3rd round
Center - Undrafted
Right Guard - 4th round
Right Tackle - 5th round

The lesson here is that these big boys with talent exist all over the draft, often way way down. Teams have to a) identify them, and b) coach them up and put them in a situation where they are held accountable by the entire organization, from the QB on down. My feeling is that the Pats excel in, not drafting, but coaching.

Personally, I like using higher draft picks on the skill positions, and training up the maulers who have the size to fight.

Having said that, toss the 13th pick if possible for more ammo in 2020.

You make a great point, it's very possible to build an OL without high draft picks. But, it's worth mentioning a few other points to provide full transparency for this discussion.

1. The Patriots have made a living of trading down and getting lots of middle and lower round draft picks. Rather than concentrating on quality, they've been concentrating on quantity, by drafting a LOT more OL prospects than most other teams. It's the shotgun approach, and for them, it's worked. Primarily because Belichick is a good coach and has been able to attract good OL coaches who have made chicken salad out of Chixstix. But for us to do that it requires good coaching and lots of ammo, not taking 1 OL each draft.

2. The Patriots have had a lot of offensive lines throughout Brady's career and Belichick's coaching stint, and that has definitely included high round draft picks like Nate Solder and Logan Mankins. The Patriots have actually put more resources into finding an OL than most teams, so while TODAY'S Patriots OL is all mid to late round picks, that's not the totality of their strategy. Remember, this is the team that also trades for OL.

3. Today's Patriot offense is one of quick passing, designed so that the OL does not have to block very long. Stated another way, the entire offense is geared to hide the deficiencies of the Patriot OL. Sure, with precise route running and quick receivers, that's possible to get open quickly. Utilizing the precision accuracy of Tom Brady, they almost never turn the ball over. But, having a Tom Brady isn't an easy to find piece, and without that piece, this offense doesn't work.

Your point is clear and correct. It is possible to find an effective OL with mid to late round draft picks. But, it's not universally applicable. Without a hyper-accurate QB who doesn't turn the ball over, that Patriot offense doesn't work. Without using a LOT of mid and late round picks (and possibly trading for more picks and players) finding enough to fill an entire OL isn't very likely. And, if we're looking at how the Patriots have done it, there is a lot of data not being considered here, including a lot of high draft picks too. So, for the full picture, let's remember that it is hard to find good OL, and finding role player OL limits what you can do on offense and requires greatness elsewhere (like hyper-accurate QB's) to make it effective. None of the QB's in the 2019 draft are good enough to win with the Patriot's OL. Only two or three in the 2020 draft are good enough to win with the Patriot's OL. Fromm is the only one today that is accurate enough to pull that off.

If you're going to skimp on the OL, like Gase did, then you need to get elite talent at QB. That's just how it works.

 

[ILfinfans85]

We have a prob tho. Our picks-Thomas, Asiata, etc- dont seem to develop. Is that poor talent selection or poor coaching?

I am going with coaching!! How are we the only team that can't develop any OL outside of first rounders. Keep Tunsil and James and build up the middle of the OL and DL through the draft. Need young players!!!

 

[lurking]

Yeah we get it. We just don't want to continue to use valuable resources on the O line and have the same results.

Well, we have 2 first round pick bookend tackles.
We need to build the center of the line to have any success. We need to be able to run the ball, pass protect, move the chains. We have the same results because we have improved on it.

 

[Dolph N.Fan]

Which gets built first?

Dolphins O-line
Trump’s Border wall?

 

[jlfin]

Scouting does need to get a lot better. Dallas Thomas probably wasn’t on anyones board except ours. Then look at drafting Harris in the 1st. Again, we were probably the only team that would have been willing to take him on the first day.

I wouldn’t mind trading back this draft for a later 1st and another 2nd or 3rd.

None of what you posted is accurate

 

[Agua]

Let’s take a look at the Pats OL, and where they were drafted:

Left tackle - 7th round
Left Guard - 3rd round
Center - Undrafted
Right Guard - 4th round
Right Tackle - 5th round

The lesson here is that these big boys with talent exist all over the draft, often way way down.

How do you think that will turn out in Miami?

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I don't care about team trends in betting or personnel. As soon as a team trend acquires some hype it is generally past its peak and already starting to normalize.

Every era has an occasional elite offensive lineman. Nobody quarreled with John Hannah being picked near the top of the draft. There was actually some ridicule of the Bengals taking Anthony Munoz so early, due to injury concerns. But Munoz had that Frank Gore type of career where the serious injuries were prevalent in college but gone once he reached the NFL.

Recently we've had a couple of guards picked high and they panned out for the Cowboys and Colts. That's nice. We had our own example with the tackle Tunsil.

But top players at those position are generally lesser athletes, and lesser athletes by definition are picked later in the draft. That is what the Dolphins should do, ignoring the recent team trend or anything that has occurred with the current playoff teams. Just make sure to be aware of the traits that are likely to identify the linemen who pan out. I posted that link a few weeks ago. Character and desire are most important as long as you don't have a significant physical weakness like balance or power/punch.

Last thing we want to do is improve the team piece by piece to the point we are feeling all swell about ourselves, only to reach a playoff game and see that the offensive line uptick was mostly a mirage, and we still are not much of anything because our quarterback and passing game are simply not NFL playoff caliber.

 

[miamiron]

We have a prob tho. Our picks-Thomas, Asiata, etc- dont seem to develop. Is that poor talent selection or poor coaching?

Problem is we've drafted 3 offensive linemen
in the past 4 years(out of 30 draft picks) Douglas,Asiata,and Tunsil

and 1 in the past 2 years Asiata
Look no further than the above to see why we have a problem

New England has drafted 8 offensive linemen in the same 4 years
Colts have drafted 8 offensive linemen in the same 4 years

Just cant ignore the OL and be smart with OL free agents something
we've had problems with in the past

 

[EJay]

Much salivating on the Forum for fans wanting to get much needed help on the OL through drafting this year. Many even hoping for a guard with our #13 pick.

The hated Pats have done it right and it’s obvious to us when we see Brady sitting back there, going through his progressions while we struggle to break through his OL. Year in year out.

Let’s take a look at the Pats OL, and where they were drafted:

Left tackle - 7th round
Left Guard - 3rd round
Center - Undrafted
Right Guard - 4th round
Right Tackle - 5th round

The lesson here is that these big boys with talent exist all over the draft, often way way down. Teams have to a) identify them, and b) coach them up and put them in a situation where they are held accountable by the entire organization, from the QB on down. My feeling is that the Pats excel in, not drafting, but coaching.

Personally, I like using higher draft picks on the skill positions, and training up the maulers who have the size to fight.

Having said that, toss the 13th pick if possible for more ammo in 2020.

Totally disagree. While I’m not suggesting that the Patriots line isn’t good, I will say that you’re overrating them.

Just like the Colts when Peyton Manning was there, the Patriots have benefitted from having a Golden Boy QB. As such, their line gets away with a lot more than other teams do.

As we all know, holding could be called on nearly every single play — if not every play. But for the perceived ‘good’ of the league, some teams are given more latitude than others. To protect the faces of the league.

New England is so far along in their dominance that they can afford to build a line of low round draft picks and have it hold up. But before Brady and the Pats franchise became what they are now — thus getting and arguably earning a lot of benefits — I’m willing to bet w/o looking it up that they didn’t build their lines the same way.

 

[Ray R]

Totally disagree. While I’m not suggesting that the Patriots line isn’t good, I will say that you’re overrating them.

Just like the Colts when Peyton Manning was there, the Patriots have benefitted from having a Golden Boy QB. As such, their line gets away with a lot more than other teams do.

As we all know, holding could be called on nearly every single play — if not every play. But for the perceived ‘good’ of the league, some teams are given more latitude than others. To protect the faces of the league.

New England is so far along in their dominance that they can afford to build a line of low round draft picks and have it hold up. But before Brady and the Pats franchise became what they are now — thus getting and arguably earning a lot of benefits — I’m willing to bet w/o looking it up that they didn’t build their lines the same way.

We need to start at some point in time. 2019 seems to be a good time.

 

[Birdmond]

Much salivating on the Forum for fans wanting to get much needed help on the OL through drafting this year. Many even hoping for a guard with our #13 pick.

The hated Pats have done it right and it’s obvious to us when we see Brady sitting back there, going through his progressions while we struggle to break through his OL. Year in year out.

Let’s take a look at the Pats OL, and where they were drafted:

Left tackle - 7th round
Left Guard - 3rd round
Center - Undrafted
Right Guard - 4th round
Right Tackle - 5th round

The lesson here is that these big boys with talent exist all over the draft, often way way down. Teams have to a) identify them, and b) coach them up and put them in a situation where they are held accountable by the entire organization, from the QB on down. My feeling is that the Pats excel in, not drafting, but coaching.

Personally, I like using higher draft picks on the skill positions, and training up the maulers who have the size to fight.

Having said that, toss the 13th pick if possible for more ammo in 2020.

I agree in principle but I doubt any QB we get gets the ball out of his hands as fast as Brady. Because of this they can get maulers later in the draft who excel at run blocking but might be weak pass blockers. I love this approach and I think it would also work with Murray.

 

[gofins60]

Despite having one of the worst OL in the league year in and year out since 2012 we've only drafted 7 OL.

IMO, it is NO coincidence that the o-line has been bad since 2012 because that's when Philbin took over, followed by Gase. Both guys preferred a short pass based offense, so they probably used similar blocking schemes and wanted a similar type of o-lineman. Although they invested several high draft picks on OL, the end result was still bad. This suggests to me that the problem is a combination of picking the wrong o-linemen, poor coaching, ineffective blocking schemes and playcalling, and just basically running a pathetic style of offense.