Gardener Released!!! / Jay Williams traded for | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Gardener Released!!! / Jay Williams traded for

Thats what I figured out a bit just now when I was looking at the figures more closely because it looked awefully coincidental that the amount of undepreciated signing bonus looked like $6 million plus the year's worth of amortization. It makes sense. Either way we still saved money on the 2003 cap by letting him go as opposed to cutting him after the 2002 season or keeping him for both seasons.

Just check out the base salaries on NFLPA. Add the amortized signing bonus, and there you go. His cap figure for 2003 figured to be AT LEAST $7 million (I say at least because in actuality his cap figure for this season figured to be at least $5 million but in actuality with bonuses and counted incentives it was closer to $6)

So by cutting DG we've saved at least $1 million on the 2003 salary cap as opposed to if we kept him on the roster in 2003. If you're correct, and I suspect you are, then if we cut him after the 2002 season we would have saved roughly the same amount as cutting him today, however in cutting him today we've saved ourselves $3 million and to me, given DG's reduced role as merely a run stuffing LDE who plays DT on some obvious pass downs...the $3 million is worth it if it could get us both Jay Williams and Sam Adams.
 
yeah but again we could have waited till june 1st next year, and had two seasons with no dead weight.
 
Thats not true. We'd still have had about $2 million in dead weight in 2003 after we cut him June 1st, and before June 1st we would have had at least $7 million in dead weight. How do I figure? Well DG would be on the roster but we would know that we were going to cut him after June 1st. But what good does that do us when the free agency period opens up if we've got a $7-8 million guy sitting on the roster who we KNOW won't be playing for us?

So yeah we'd save about $5 million on the cap after June 1st. But it would be at a point in free agency when the pickings are pretty slim, and we'd also have about $4-5 million in deadweight for the 2004 season whereas with what we did today we will have NO deadweight in the 2004 season. And you cant underestimate how important that deadweight (or lack thereof) in 2004 is as I replied to you in another thread. You want to say that we're due for a 2004 bloodletting like the Ravens so it really doesn't matter if we've got a bunch of deadweight from DG during that season cuz the ****'s gonna hit the fan anyway might as well go for the gusto.

No offense, but I'm glad you're not an NFL GM. The lack of deadweight will go a long way towards keeping the stars that we want to keep in 2004 and keeping us competitive. Thats the name of the game. You dont sell out your future for the now in todays NFL. It just doesn't work, and coaches get fired for it.
 
You had better worry about the Bills grabbing Gardener Muck...Clayton reported the Bills and Packers are the 2 favorites to land Gardener, and boy would that be a relief for us Bills Fans. Finally, a Run stopper.
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
Thats not true. We'd still have had about $2 million in dead weight in 2003 after we cut him June 1st, and before June 1st we would have had at least $7 million in dead weight. How do I figure? Well DG would be on the roster but we would know that we were going to cut him after June 1st. But what good does that do us when the free agency period opens up if we've got a $7-8 million guy sitting on the roster who we KNOW won't be playing for us?

So yeah we'd save about $5 million on the cap after June 1st. But it would be at a point in free agency when the pickings are pretty slim, and we'd also have about $4-5 million in deadweight for the 2004 season whereas with what we did today we will have NO deadweight in the 2004 season. And you cant underestimate how important that deadweight (or lack thereof) in 2004 is as I replied to you in another thread. You want to say that we're due for a 2004 bloodletting like the Ravens so it really doesn't matter if we've got a bunch of deadweight from DG during that season cuz the ****'s gonna hit the fan anyway might as well go for the gusto.

No offense, but I'm glad you're not an NFL GM. The lack of deadweight will go a long way towards keeping the stars that we want to keep in 2004 and keeping us competitive. Thats the name of the game. You dont sell out your future for the now in todays NFL. It just doesn't work, and coaches get fired for it.
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In 2004 Zach, Sam, JT, Bowens, RW(hasn't signed it yet, but is likely to get big dough after this year), and Surtain will cost us over 40 mill. Thats half the pay role on 5 starters. Keep in mind that is assumeing Marion, Feidler, and Gadsen are already cut in that off season. Then throw in the fact that Searcy, Dixon, and Ruddy will all most likely be retired.
 
So I get home from work, connect to the internet, and open my mailbox, and see this E-mail saying DG is released. That may have been the most shocking thing I have seen in a while. On top of that, I see we traded a frickin' 4th rounder to Carolina for Jay Williams? Can't say I agree with that. If Jay can play a Kenny Mixon type role and D. Bowens steps up, we should still be fine. If not, I dunno what to expect......
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
Where's VanDolPhan? I believe I was arguing with his "calculations" that he made about how much we lose/save if we cut DG. I pretty much just made an educated guess that we'd save some money, based on the fact that we've heard from three different sources that DG's release is possible. You dont release a guy to take a cap hit unless he's a real cancer holdout threat or something, is what I said. Well, evidently we got enough savings to sign a guy who brings with him a $1.65 million cap hit which would have been more than enough to sign Josh Evans, and almost enough to sign Sam Adams with a creatively structured deal.
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I'm right here. Educated guess? Not in the least. If you had an 'educated' guess then you could have told us it wasn't a 50/50 share on the amount that could be deferred. In the end you were 'just' guessing. However I am not wrong about the cap crippling us (w00t my figures were almost bang on. Just needed the #'s from the revisions). So what if we saved 2.6 million this year. We are getting dinged to the tune of 6.1 million against the cap next year. Oh how do you suggest we sign Sam Adams to a contract this year when we are going to have to cut a bona fide starter next year (probably rodgers and someone else) just to make up for the huge hit next year?

In the short term this is going to work out unless of course D.G signs with a division rival. Next season though we are throughly behind the 8 ball. I seriously wish they could have held out till after the season.
 
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Cap hit not with standing ...I am so friggin glad we cut this underachieving blow hard ...yes WHEN he played the last two years ,he played well,but all that money for an injury prone d-line man was insane anyway.....I always hated the way he would talk about probowls and crap...and there are some on this board that give him that probowl player "status" Which he does NOT deserve...probowlers do it ALL YEAR LONG!!Finally we get rid of one of the cancers on this team and I for one will NOT miss his "predictions"....good riddence to another bad JJ first round pick! By the way dont count out d.bowens or ogunleye they have talent and may bust in this year ..they will certainly be givin the opportunity. On the fourth rounder for J.williams ...I say lets see..If we do well again that fourth is like a fith. A veteran at this age (same as alot of miami's core group) could be a step in the right direction ..more team ball and less "look at me" "look at me" dg sh*t !!! We could have a hell of a rotation on the d line and i have always been a fan of that !!Let camp begin !!!! yea!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I have actually extensively studied the salary cap...(I'm into those sort of things). DG will count 6 mil against next years cap yes. But when you include his base salary next year(5 mil) and the fact that he signed a renogiated contract this offseason w/3.5 mil in incentives for playing 34% of all defensive downs. We bought DG an insurance policy giving him the money if he doesn't accomplish this. This bonus is an unexpected incentive since he didn't accomplish it last season. We all know he probaby would have gotten that figure this year at DE and this incentive would then count against next years cap.

Add that fact to his base salary and prorated signing bonus portion and you can see how we would have actually saved alot of money by doing this now instead of waiting till next season when he'd have already received this incentive bonus.

The Phins saved themselves the chemistery issues as well as money with this release. Jay Williams is a guy who is alot like Mixon in every way...good run stuffer marginal pass rusher. But we already have good pass rush guys who can come in on passing downs. 1.65 mil to do the same job DG was being asked to do is another good move.

A 4th is alot to give for him but we couldn't get him for a 7th and we don't have a 6th(McNown deal) and there were not any DE's who can play the run like Williams.

We made a good move by doing this with DG back never gonna be healthy again. Made way too much money for a run stuffing DE. Let's go get Sam Adams with the cap room and boom improved team.
 
Thank you Phinstd thats what I'm tryin to say. Half-full half-empty glass argument really.

Yes, we will have $6 million in deadweight next year. However before we cut DG he was slated to have probably around an $8 million salary cap figure for 2003. So by cutting DG now we have actually SAVED $2 million. Everyone seems to focus on the negative, focus on the $6 million in deadweight as if its some NEW thing that we will only NOW have to deal with, when the fact of the matter is we were even MORE screwed for the 2003 season before we cut Daryl Gardener.

Glad to see VanDolphan that you can't admit you were wrong about us LOSING money on the 2002 cap by cutting DG.
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
Thank you Phinstd thats what I'm tryin to say. Half-full half-empty glass argument really.

Yes, we will have $6 million in deadweight next year. However before we cut DG he was slated to have probably around an $8 million salary cap figure for 2003. So by cutting DG now we have actually SAVED $2 million. Everyone seems to focus on the negative, focus on the $6 million in deadweight as if its some NEW thing that we will only NOW have to deal with, when the fact of the matter is we were even MORE screwed for the 2003 season before we cut Daryl Gardener.

Glad to see VanDolphan that you can't admit you were wrong about us LOSING money on the 2002 cap by cutting DG.
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This is alot like kicking a dead horse, but if we waited till June 1st of next year he would have counted nothing against our 2003 cap. Sure the money would be tied up till June 1st, but we don't sign draft picks till July, and there is a whole new crop of June 1st cuts. This being said it was the descion Miami made and we all have to live with it. I will be ok with it as long as the Bills don't sign him, and he makes the pro bowl.
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead

Glad to see VanDolphan that you can't admit you were wrong about us LOSING money on the 2002 cap by cutting DG.
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Glad to see you can't admit you just had an incredibly lucky guess and that you didn't have a clue what you were talking about :)

Like I said in the thread when we were going over numbers "I" didn't know if they could allocate a higher portion or if it was 50/50. Didn't see you jumping in there to say "yes they can allocate it into next year". Don't think you win anything just because Spielman pushed us into a blackhole of dead money for next season. They made a trade off for some minor cap space now in exchange for the future.

If they were smarter they would have swallowed as much of it as they could this season so we could at least dream of signing someone next season. But then hey they are the same guys that just traded a 4th rounder to a team that would have cut him in a few weeks anyways.
 
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