How about some Gesicki tape?

[greasyObnoxious]

Just a theoretical question . . . if Miami were to get Samuel and Waddle as starting WRs, how much more open would MG be? Last season he was #2. He's not a #2 receiver. With Samuel, Waddle, DVP - maybe PW/Wilson, he'd look a lot better. Like many here, I'm not sold on him as a #1TE and he's not a good blocker, but there are very few TEs who can be a successful #2.

.73 yards by my estimate

joking aside, of course getting more weapons that need to be respected would help out Gesicki. wouldn't change the type of players he is though. at the end of the day, the rookie contract will run out and decisions will have to be made.

 

[Kdawg954]

Somehow despite all that he was 4th in yards and 6th in TDs for TEs. At the end of the day production is what matters.

Now do you extend the type of player NBP81 is describing because he was the best skill guy in a pretty pathetic group . . . or do you trust the tape, see the type of player he describes and try to improve.

That is the stuff that makes or breaks a team build.

I fully expect a split feel on that question . . . but don't get sucked into the "production".

He's very athletic and is the most impressive skill guy we have. But No Separation, no yards after the catch, gets leveled by CBs, cant block... Is that really what we're looking for in a TE? as he said is ABSOLUTELY valid and it hampers the base offense so put that into the perspective when you see the spectacular.

My thoughts on it are, year 4 lets go. I ain't extending and I ain't cutting.
But his presence does absolutely nothing in my quest to add a guy like Pitts to the team.

 

[Mach2]

Just a theoretical question . . . if Miami were to get Samuel and Waddle as starting WRs, how much more open would MG be? Last season he was #2. He's not a #2 receiver. With Samuel, Waddle, DVP - maybe PW/Wilson, he'd look a lot better. Like many here, I'm not sold on him as a #1TE and he's not a good blocker, but there are very few TEs who can be a successful #2.

Yep.

When a DC has no worries about getting burnt over the top, its pretty easy to give safety help, close down the middle of the field.

Even so, he performed pretty well statistically, and I see no reason he won't do even better with a couple adds that force the defense into mismatches.

I don't think MG is a top 5 TE, but I also don't think the TE position, as a whole, is one of our bigger issues.

 

[Padfoot]

I like Gesicki but he does have some glaring weaknesses to his game. The idea that we shouldn't draft Pitts because Gesicki already is Pitts is pretty silly imo. Regardless, I hope Gesicki continues to improve.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

.73 yards by my estimate

joking aside, of course getting more weapons that need to be respected would help out Gesicki. wouldn't change the type of players he is though. at the end of the day, the rookie contract will run out and decisions will have to be made.

I'll agree on that. His continuance in Miami will depend on contract demands. And, again, he has flaws. Nonetheless, Miami fans have seen many decent receivers, who should have been #2 or #3, forced in to a #1 roll and fail. DVP, IMO, isn't a #1 WR, but ended up there because he was best of the bunch. It's been generations (exaggeration) since Miami has had a true #1 WR.

I'm not arguing MG is a top 5 TE, nor am I arguing he can't be upgraded. Only that he has some value and that value will increase when the DC makes him the 3rd/4th concern.

 

[Danny]

Now do you extend the type of player NBP81 is describing because he was the best skill guy in a pretty pathetic group . . . or do you trust the tape, see the type of player he describes and try to improve.

That is the stuff that makes or breaks a team build.

I fully expect a split feel on that question . . . but don't get sucked into the "production".

He's very athletic and is the most impressive skill guy we have. But No Separation, no yards after the catch, gets leveled by CBs, cant block... Is that really what we're looking for in a TE? as he said is ABSOLUTELY valid and it hampers the base offense so put that into the perspective when you see the spectacular.

My thoughts on it are, year 4 lets go. I ain't extending and I ain't cutting.
But his presence does absolutely nothing in my quest to add a guy like Pitts to the team.

You know I wanted us to draft Goedert and I still wish we had. I'm not against upgrading every position whenever we can. I just don't think we need to draft Pitts at 3 in order to do so. I like Pitts more than some people might think and would like to have him on our team but it's about using your resources to make the whole team better and not just to have a better TE. That pick 3 should not be used on a TE imo. Yes I'd like to trade down like most people here would but even on a trade down I'd not make Pitts by top pick unless we do something crazy in free agency but that's another story.

Pitts is not the only TE in this draft either so if we want to draft a TE so bad we might look for one later in the draft?
I think it's all academic as I don't believe Grier/Flo would make Pitts our top pick and I don't think he'll be there for us at 18.

 

[Digital]

I was one who did not want to draft him I can tell you that..I thought his blocking skill was the worst I’ve seen coming out of college from that position, I knew he could be a good receiver but not a tight end in any way shape or form, I also feel his receiver skill set doesn’t mesh well with what Tua needs and I still feel that way on both issues, so I’m open to using an asset on Pitts or Friermuth.

Kudos to you for owning up to that brother.

Tua has shown ability to throw to size mismatches and that's definitely who Gesicki is. Where Tua has not excelled as a rookie is intermediate throws and throws over the middle. IMHO, a large part of that is him recovering from his hip injury and being a bit scared to make those difficult throws on seam routes, etc. But, with Tua fully healed and having a full offseason to get his rythem right, I think he'll throw more of those intermediate routes and we'll see him able to take advantage of Gesicki's exceptional seam route ability like Fitzmagic did. Tua makes good decisions, so throws that require extreme precision and lots of velocity weren't good decisions in his rehabbing state as a rookie. But I expect that to level out this year.

Deep throws you can wind up and overthrow with a margin of safety. Likewise, those short throws limit the INT exposure as well. The outside throws can be shaded out of bounds to provide that margin of safety. But those intermediate throws in the middle of the field ... there's very little margin for error. Too flat and they'll get tipped by LB's, too high and they'll get INT by FS's, too much anticipation and you risk firing blind into a sagging DL/LB or gambling CB like Xavien Howard. A smidgeon behind and the WR/TE can't quite reach back and get it, leading to tipped balls and INT's. Those middle intermediate throws are deceptively hard, and DC's feast on rookie QB's with baiting them into throwing those routes. So, Tua correctly didn't throw them very often. It's safer ... but those routes are needed to make a passing offense productive, so we'll need to see a lot more this year from Tua. I think he can make the adjustment.

 

[Geordie]

The trouble with Highlight reels is that they only show the good. The problem with Gesicki isn't the stuff you see here, problem is, this tape is way too short. He's got the ability to be a way bigger weapon than he is but he consistently fails to get open on a consistent basis. Most of his catches are spectacular because they need to be, because he's not able to provide those easy receptions because his route running sucks and he's hardly a burner.

Gesicki is a weapon but personally I would want him to really prove a lot more this season, especially in terms of developing a chemistry with our QB, before committing big money to him. Bringing in Pitts doesn't mean the end for Gesicki at all but in fact it could be liberating for him, Pitts will take the attention and leave him with softer coverage.

 

[Jimi]

Now do you extend the type of player NBP81 is describing because he was the best skill guy in a pretty pathetic group . . . or do you trust the tape, see the type of player he describes and try to improve.

That is the stuff that makes or breaks a team build.

I fully expect a split feel on that question . . . but don't get sucked into the "production".

He's very athletic and is the most impressive skill guy we have. But No Separation, no yards after the catch, gets leveled by CBs, cant block... Is that really what we're looking for in a TE? as he said is ABSOLUTELY valid and it hampers the base offense so put that into the perspective when you see the spectacular.

My thoughts on it are, year 4 lets go. I ain't extending and I ain't cutting.
But his presence does absolutely nothing in my quest to add a guy like Pitts to the team.

I mean just because the rest of the skill group is crap doesn’t mean his stats don’t matter. Half the time people say a WRs production is hurt when he’s the only one they have to focus on, and this is the flip side of that. Typically I just let production speak for itself barring some very unique situation. And if we really want to go down that path, I would point to our starting QB half the year passing for less than 200 yds a game. That doesn’t help.

Biggest thing for me has been his growth. He looked lost rookie year, and has made big strides since then. His body type and position always pointed to someone who would need some time to develop.

I do agree with you, it’s still somewhat wait and see mode. Wouldn’t be in a huge hurry to extend early if it isn’t a team friendly deal. But I have faith he’s going to keep getting better.

Also no issue going after Pitts regardless. League is becoming increasingly positionless, we just need weapons, don’t care what spot they are at on the depth chart.

 

[A1.]

Not taking Kyle Pitts bc you have mike Gesicki is like turning down a free Gatorade bc you’ve already got some All-Sport


vs

 

[dolfan91]

Perhaps knowing what his shortcomings are, Flores and his offensive staff have figured out how to make Gesicki a productive player? The haters overlook the production since mid 2019. To me what matters most is production and Gesicki has produced since Flores got to Miami. He's not perfect and may not be the complete player other TE's around the league are, but he makes plays when given a chance. Fitzpatrick utilized Gesicki's skillset and got him to develop. Hopefully he continues on the upward swing.

I'm not opposed to adding Pitts into the mix, because I believe combined, they'd be a nightmare on Sunday Afternoons.

 

[jazz015]

The trouble with Highlight reels is that they only show the good. The problem with Gesicki isn't the stuff you see here, problem is, this tape is way too short. He's got the ability to be a way bigger weapon than he is but he consistently fails to get open on a consistent basis. Most of his catches are spectacular because they need to be, because he's not able to provide those easy receptions because his route running sucks and he's hardly a burner.

Gesicki is a weapon but personally I would want him to really prove a lot more this season, especially in terms of developing a chemistry with our QB, before committing big money to him. Bringing in Pitts doesn't mean the end for Gesicki at all but in fact it could be liberating for him, Pitts will take the attention and leave him with softer coverage.

Agreed. As a while nobody could separate and it's tough to watch any qb have to make those tough throws. I was hoping he would improve his blocking most of all but flores did a good job of having him in a role he does well. Gesicki could be jimmy Graham pre-seahawks years if they put more speed around him.

Pitts isn't a guy with top shelf speed. Put Smith or chase out wide and Parker with his big body and you got a nice offense to work with. Not to mention Gaskin and another running back gashing the D. It will help him tremendously. Look at how much Kelce thrives with the chiefs and their speed. That's my vision for him.

 

[Geordie]

Agreed. As a while nobody could separate and it's tough to watch any qb have to make those tough throws. I was hoping he would improve his blocking most of all but flores did a good job of having him in a role he does well. Gesicki could be jimmy Graham pre-seahawks years if they put more speed around him.

Pitts isn't a guy with top shelf speed. Put Smith or chase out wide and Parker with his big body and you got a nice offense to work with. Not to mention Gaskin and another running back gashing the D. It will help him tremendously. Look at how much Kelce thrives with the chiefs and their speed. That's my vision for him.

Just listening to the 3 ypc pod and Alf, just reeled off an interesting stat from nexgen apparently it's on the NFL.COM site, worst seperators in the league:

1. AJ Green
2. Davonte Parker
3. Mike Gesicki

That's my issue with Mike and Parker tbh and it shows up in these stats, no wonder Tua was reluctant to throw it up to them.

 

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

There are more than a few posters here who were completely against the drafting of Gesicki... trashed him unmercifully... and now have a log-sized chip on their shoulder as he's proven them wrong.

They won't get over it.

Against drafting him or disappointed with his performance his first few seasons?

 

[DPhinz_DPhinz]

Just listening to the 3 ypc pod and Alf, just reeled off an interesting stat from nexgen apparently it's on the NFL.COM site, worst seperators in the league:

1. AJ Green
2. Davonte Parker
3. Mike Gesicki

That's my issue with Mike and Parker tbh and it shows up in these stats, no wonder Tua was reluctant to throw it up to them.

Tua was reluctant to throw it up to them because he realized he wasn't playing Vanderbilt. The only time Tua looked good in the Buffalo game was when he "threw it up" to Parker...at the start of the second half. Once Buffalo went into different coverages and Tua was given the greenlight it looked like the Keystone Kops blocking for the Three Stooges.