How will Flores regain respect of team after a historically bad season? (Analysis) | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How will Flores regain respect of team after a historically bad season? (Analysis)

phins_4_ever said:
@SkapePhin why are you trying so hard to explain a "tank job you and others subscribed to? Why does anybody in your realm of the "tank for Tua" world cares what happens this season? Why do any of you care what happens to Flores afterwards? He is fulfilling your wet dreams. Isn't that a great thing?
You all wanted to go 0-16. If I would be you I'd gather all the "tankers" right now and start building statues of Flores and Grier because no matter what happens to them after the season right now they are fulfilling your dream.

Ohhhhh, I forgot: the Dolphins are not losing the right way. There are restrictions on how you can lose when you are "tanking".

:lol:
Click to expand...

To be fair, the only reason any of us really subscribed to "the tank" is because this franchise has been so woefully inept at identifying talent for 20 years. Sadly, the only way we can be sure they can hit on a player, especially the QB, is with the first overall pick. And even that is no guarantee.

When there was word about this "tank", I thought it would be done as a legit rebuild, meaning dumping high priced vets while retaining young talent and developing them for the season. What has really soured me on this whole process was a firesale of young talent like Tunsil and now Minkah.

You can read my thoughts on the Tunsil trade thread. Even though the draft compensation was high, no successful organization gets rid of their young talent entering their prime like this. This team will be completely bare when the QB comes in. It will take years to rebuild.

Good teams build through the draft, and that means RESIGNING those good players to second and third contracts. Grier is just nuking the whole thing. Getting rid of some of his best draft picks from just the last 3 years. That is ridiculous.

There is no development of talent here. This is just outright garbage.

I was on board with the Rosen trade because I thought there was a chance they could legitimately fix their QB situation with a young guy while building around him and evaluating him for a season so that "the tank" might not need to happen, but instead they did the opposite.
 
SkapePhin said:
To be fair, the only reason any of us really subscribed to "the tank" is because this franchise has been so woefully inept at identifying talent for 20 years. Sadly, the only way we can be sure they can hit on a player, especially the QB, is with the first overall pick. And even that is no guarantee.

When there was word about this "tank", I thought it would be done as a legit rebuild, meaning dumping high priced vets while retaining young talent and developing them for the season. What has really soured me on this whole process was a firesale of young talent like Tunsil and now Minkah.

You can read my thoughts on the Tunsil trade thread. Even though the draft compensation was high, no successful organization gets rid of their young talent entering their prime like this. This team will be completely bare when the QB comes in. It will take years to rebuild.

Good teams build through the draft, and that means RESIGNING those good players to second and third contracts. Grier is just nuking the whole thing. Getting rid of some of his best draft picks from just the last 3 years. That is ridiculous.

There is no development of talent here. This is just outright garbage.

I was on board with the Rosen trade because I thought there was a chance they could legitimately fix their QB situation with a young guy while building around him and evaluating him for a season so that "the tank" might not need to happen, but instead they did the opposite.
Click to expand...
I always laugh at your grier chart at the bottom of your posts.. You do realize the patriots drafts have about a similar success rate right.. As a matter of fact they only have 5 starters on the team from all the drafts from 2016 to 2019
 
Gonzofinfan said:
I always laugh at your grier chart at the bottom of your posts.. You do realize the patriots drafts have about a similar success rate right.. As a matter of fact they only have 5 starters on the team from all the drafts from 2016 to 2019
Click to expand...

If I had more room I would have added this too:

Pats had 32 picks to Dolphins 30 in that time frame. I only see 2 out of the league for Patriots definitively according to https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm. Dolphins have 4 out of the league (if you include Asiata who just retired): https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/draft.htm

This is one measure, but I think the better measure is to look at the roster as a whole and see how many were drafted by that team, and for how long. To do this right it would take far more time than I have right now, so I will make the comparison of starters only.

Patriots Starters Drafted by the Team:
QB Tom Brady (2000)
RB Sony Michel (2018)
WR Julian Edelman (2009)
LT Isaiah Wynn (2018)
LG Joe Thuney (2016)
C Ted Karras (2016)
RG Shaq Mason (2015)
RT Marcus Cannon (2011)
---
LDE Deatrich Wise Jr (2017)
WLB Dont'a Hightower (2012)
MLB Elandon Roberts (2016)
SS Patrick Chung (2009)
FS Devin McCourty (2010)
---
K Stephen Gostkowski (2006)

Breakdown:
Total Starters Drafted By Team: 14
<4 Years in League: 6
>4 Years in League: 8

Dolphins Starters Drafted by the Team:
RB Kenyand Drake (2016)
WR Devante Parker (2015)
WR Jakeem Grant (2016)
TE Mike Gesicki (2018)
LG Michael Deiter (2019)
---
NT Davon Godchaux (2017)
RDE Christian Wilkins (2019)
LILB Raekwon McMillan (2017)
RILB Jerome Baker (2018)
SLB Charles Harris (2018)
LCB Xavien Howard (2016)
SS Bobby McCain (2015)
FS Reshad Jones (2010)
FS Minkah Fitzpatrick (2018) [not listed as starter on depthchart according to ESPN, but he starts so I included him]
---
K Jason Sanders (2018)

Breakdown:
Total Starters Drafted By Team: 15
<4 Years in League: 12
>4 Years in League: 3

Now consider the quality of the drafted starters... NE's entire O-Line was drafted almost entirely within the last 4 years, yet the Dolphins don't have a single player on the OL drafted by the team except for rookie Michael Deter. NE's OL is considered tops in the league, ours is considered the worst in Dolphins history. Who is responsible for that? Somehow NE could build an elite O-Line in just a little over 5 years, yet Grier couldn't even find ONE quality starter (other than the one he traded away) in that time span.

Now also consider how many top quality drafted starters they have on their second contracts in NE. That means that it is much more difficult for their players drafted since 2016 to make it into the starting lineup and stick with the team. Compare that with the Dolphins who have a whopping 12 starters since 2016, and only 3 from the years before that. Only 3 are in their 2nd or 3rd contract with the team. That means there is A LOT more opportunity for less talented draft picks since 2016 to stick around.

And don't forget, Grier also played an integral role in drafting for almost 2 decades. What does it say that this team is completely bereft of those players outside of Reshad Jones?
 
As I read this post it got me thinking to how realistic it is, if this season continues to play out like it's been, if Flores does get canned at the end of the season and Ross does actually clean house?

I was/am on the fence with the hiring of Flores because history has shown that any assistant leaving NE hasn't done well. So I want him proving to me, even with the lack of talent, that he can at least make adjustments, lead, do something within his control to show he can be a leader. I haven't seen any of that yet.

I'm not someone that believes that jumping the gun and cleaning house is a must at the moment but if, even the most basics, aren't improved upon than why set us up for failure?

Someone mentioned before about using the position the Dolphins will be in(#1 pick, 160+mil available) as a means to try and convince Harbaugh to come. Could that actually be possible?
 
Interesting that all 3 of the guys to get a second head coaching gigs worked with Peyton Manning.

Sad as it is for Hue, I don't think the Browns were tanking.

And yeah, unless Ross is going for a 2 year tank Flores needs to be fired as soon as the season ends.
 
I don’t understand half theses threads. All I heard all offseason was “the Dolphins are tanking” and now we’re complaining it’s too much. I admit I didn’t expect it to be this bad but that weekend after final cuts was eye opening. I think the offensive line is the biggest issue with the team and it’s so bad it’s crippling. We have 2 guys nobody wanted (Webb, Isidora/Broehm) starting and a guy in Davis who has never played LT in the NFL. I think it will settle down but obviously still be below average especially considering they may not be done as this Wiltzman we signed might be better that the Isidora/Broehm combination and Davenport may start when healthy. I expect another sound ass whipping in Dallas next week and when the Chargers come in but eventually I think we’ll start losing more competitive games (keep ghat in perspective as compared to how we’re losing now).

Bottom line we dumped salaries, have street free agents playing all over the place, traded away arguably our 2 best offensive players and changed defensive schemes just before the season. Cherry on top is we played 2 AFC playoff teams and get an NFC one this week. This is all expected at this point. Flores doesn’t have the horses. My expectation is for a better showing week 6 meaning we lose by a couple TD’s or so.

They want Tua and are leaving nothing to chance. I’ve embraced it and I hate not being about who talk about actual football but that is a waste of time at this point.
 
Love the post. I agree in that I think it will be difficult for Flores to survive. I can't recall a two-game stretch where a team was beaten by a combined 102-10. That sounds like a division I major college program facing a division II school that is looking for a payday.

I don't know, honestly, if Miami will win a game. The offense is an absolute mess. Easily the worst offensive line in football etc.

Obviously, I'm rooting for Flores. I think it takes a lot to tear it down and build it back up. That he was bold enough to sign on says something.
 
jazz015 said:
The issue with coaches that go 1-15 is that the NFL is designed for this to bot happen. win probability week to week makes it improbable to be that bad. So 1-15 says a lot about the coaches of these teams and whatever state they may have been in.

The issue for flores is that he is fielding a team set to be the worst of all time by a WIDE MARGIN. Still early but the results are not promising. This will mean also replacing something like 40 players on the roster. Most of the players are meant to be fill ins until replacements are located.

Replacing all these players and fielding a rookie quarterback will put pressure on him and grier to hit every single puck and signing which is also improbable. Then they need to start winning and playing well. Which as the chart shows is unfair for assessment.

Grier/Flores may get the quarterback but have stacked the deck against them in the process. One small misstep in this grand scheme and the franchise is ******. I still remain concerned they can pull of a vast improvement next year just because they got a quarterback.
Click to expand...

Evidence?
 
After game 1 I wanted Flores to be tarred and feathered because of how bad we looked in every facet of that game.

Game 2, I felt much better because I saw some kind of fight in the dog, instead of rolling over and showing our belly again.

From this point on, we are going to lose and badly. I just want people to get beat at their assignments because your man was better. I don't want a bunch of scheme BS for players running around with their hair on fire, that won't be here. That will have me back at his throat.

This is tryouts...I'm a basketball guy, and in basketball tryouts it's man to man. No zone, press, etc. Do you have the talent to be on the field in a scheme.
 
If Flores is fired at the end of the season, Grier won't be far behind.

That's a bad sign to the football world about how we operate.
 
Was watching x's and omar and they got a question 'if they are bad in 2020 do they get fired.' Omar and hyde both agreed they'd be safe because you can't expect them to win with a rookie QB. It would be a total disaster to keep these guys for 3 or 4 seasons instead of just starting from scratch from the ground up after the season. Makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it.
 
So, the ASSumption is he has or will lose respect? You don't think the team sees the same thing we see?
 
xSxPxHx said:
Thats why picking a QB #1 overall is like trying to win the lotto. You just never know. You can do so much research on 1 guy, you just dont know. THAT IS WHAT SCARES ME THE MOST. If we miss on that QB pick, This franchise will be headed down a path that will take a decade to come out of, or even longer.
Click to expand...
We have the ammo to QB again in 2021 (and will have at least one high pick if the 2020 QB sucks bawls). It won't set us back timewise, just the value of that wasted pick (which is significant).
 
What team let’s see in 2 to 3 years we have what?
A backup QB
Maybe a roll playing RB and a FB
A off the line TE
A promising WR
Maybe a swing T
A promising DT
A fast but to small LB
And a top 5 CB
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom