If we were tanking shouldn't we start Rosen? | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

If we were tanking shouldn't we start Rosen?

Kamelion4291 said:
The second that Flores made it an open QB competition, he had to start the winner and that was Fitzpatrick. The players knew who the better QB was by all accounts, so you can't just start someone who's worse and preach effort and trying to win or you'll lose the locker room quick.

Also, people continue to underestimate the amount of evaluation that goes on outside of just the game on Sunday. If he's not getting it done in practice, what are you hoping for by throwing him into a game? Magic?
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Except Rosen outplayed fitzpatrick in every game during the preseason...
 
outlawd2u said:
Except Rosen outplayed fitzpatrick in every game during the preseason...
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Debatable, but even if he did, it was against 2nd/3rd team very "vanilla" defenses.

I think ppl misinterpret what Flores, and the other coaches are looking at.

This is a complex offensive system, that requires a great understanding of the defense, including pre/post snap reads in a split second time frame. It isn't surprising that a vet with a decade and a half of NFL experience would be more adept at it than Rosen.

That said, I'm not closing the book on Rosen, and I doubt this staff is either.

Let's give the kid some time. I realize he isn't a rookie, but he's only 22 years old, and his experience in AZ probably did more harm than good.

IDK if he will become a top tier QB, or not, but hopefully we will have a better handle on it by the end of tge year.
 
FinFaninSeattle said:
Fitz didn't win the "competition" and young players on bad teams play over vets on every single team every Sunday. The reason imo Josh isn't playing despite clearly being better than Fitz is, they have their hearts set on a tank for Tua and there's a chance if Rosen gets experience and improves week to week then maybe he's good enough to take them out of the Tua sweepstakes. Josh has proven to be more adapt at escaping pressure than Fitz and therefore may overcome our atrocious line. With Fitz playing we're guaranteed to lose and to get Tua. With Rosen, there's a chance, however small it is, he gets in the way of the tank. Yes, this sounds unbelievable. But remember, this is the worst run team in the NFL.
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This might be the most backwards take I've read this entire offseason.

They traded for a quarterback and then sat him so that he doesn't ruin their tank opportunity? Jesus...
 
outlawd2u said:
Except Rosen outplayed fitzpatrick in every game during the preseason...
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Preseason reps are like 1/100th of the reps he's taken during the offseason. Why the myopic view where those are the only reps that count? News flash, Fitz is the starter because he outplayed Rosen for the entirety of the offseason, and since you've only really seen the preseason games, then wouldn't logic dictate that it was the other reps you didn't see that showed the bigger picture?

I don't really have to argue my point, I guess, more than this: Both are going to start this year guaranteed. Fitz will bomb out eventually and everyone will start to clamor for Rosen. You'll see the difference, then you'll realize why one guy was chosen to be the backup.
 
Rowdy1972 said:
Preserving Rosen's trade value. Whatever is left of it.
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To this point, if Miami holds Rosen as a cheap backup, and they build a decent team, Rosen could have opportunities to show well in preseason and in relief. I'd be more worried about Rosen's development - even if I know I'm drafting a QB in the 1st - than I would in winning 1 game in 2019. So, shielding Rosen from this mess is the best move. Put him in when you think he has a real shot to play well. If that doesn't happen in 2019, seems likely, that's fine.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Preseason reps are like 1/100th of the reps he's taken during the offseason. Why the myopic view where those are the only reps that count? News flash, Fitz is the starter because he outplayed Rosen for the entirety of the offseason, and since you've only really seen the preseason games, then wouldn't logic dictate that it was the other reps you didn't see that showed the bigger picture?

I don't really have to argue my point, I guess, more than this: Both are going to start this year guaranteed. Fitz will bomb out eventually and everyone will start to clamor for Rosen. You'll see the difference, then you'll realize why one guy was chosen to be the backup.
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You state this so matter of factly... None of us were at every single practice or know anything to be honest.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Preseason reps are like 1/100th of the reps he's taken during the offseason. Why the myopic view where those are the only reps that count? News flash, Fitz is the starter because he outplayed Rosen for the entirety of the offseason, and since you've only really seen the preseason games, then wouldn't logic dictate that it was the other reps you didn't see that showed the bigger picture?

I don't really have to argue my point, I guess, more than this: Both are going to start this year guaranteed. Fitz will bomb out eventually and everyone will start to clamor for Rosen. You'll see the difference, then you'll realize why one guy was chosen to be the backup.
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This is your interpretation. It's at odds with many others as cogently expressed on here. The reality is that no one can say for sure.

Hopefully if Rosen acquits himself admirably, the disappointed among us won't spend the season whining.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Aside from implying that Omar is a racist for some reason, I didn't mention names. Find me ANY beat writer that covered the offseason practices and training camp that had a different opinion, because there isn't one. There are a lot more than just two.

As for Fitz being an interception waiting to happen and has no upside, I 100% agree, but that also makes it all the more depressing that Rosen couldn't beat him out. If Rosen came close, he'd be starting just because of all the other reasons that you'd rather start him which tells you that it wasn't as close as you think it was, preseason be damned.

Personally I'd rather start Rosen since the biggest upside of starting him is that you have the best chance at ending up with the worst record in the league, but hey, that's just me.
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Did you watch any of the preseason games? It wasn't even close, Rosen was clearly the better Qb, that's not even up for debate. It's the live competition and how they play in an actual game that gives a more accurate assessment of their abilities, not a controlled environment where there is no threat of getting hit. They're basically playing glorified catch in practice. Rosen was clearly better under pressure during live game conditions and it wasn't even close. He's on the sidelines to watch and learn like he should have been doing last year instead of being thrown into the fire behind that trash OL. There's no reason to do that to him again and totally destroy his confidence, it's not fair. He's 22 years old...
 
Rowdy1972 said:
With all the jokes that are made about Josh Allen on this board about how terrible he is. He accounted for 13 TDs in his last 6 games last year.. He wasnt in that great of a situation either. But you know what he showed improvement last year. Remember last year when everyone was talking about how terrible the bills would be. They won 5 games.

You know how many TDs Rosen accounted for over his last 6 games.........2 TDs. No improvement. He got worse.
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Josh Allen sucks hole.
 
FinFaninSeattle said:
Fitz didn't win the "competition" and young players on bad teams play over vets on every single team every Sunday. The reason imo Josh isn't playing despite clearly being better than Fitz is, they have their hearts set on a tank for Tua and there's a chance if Rosen gets experience and improves week to week then maybe he's good enough to take them out of the Tua sweepstakes. Josh has proven to be more adapt at escaping pressure than Fitz and therefore may overcome our atrocious line. With Fitz playing we're guaranteed to lose and to get Tua. With Rosen, there's a chance, however small it is, he gets in the way of the tank. Yes, this sounds unbelievable. But remember, this is the worst run team in the NFL.
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While possible, I think it's far more likely the team cares about Josh Rosen's future, and has no such concern about FitzMagic.

The only reason Rosen isn't starting week 1 (in my opinion) is that Flores doesn't think starting him now puts him in the best position to succeed. Perhaps in two or three weeks. Or after the bye. We shall see.
 
I think the right thing is being done, sit the kid, recalibrate him, he wants to learn the offense, don’t put him out there until you know he’s confident to execute, that way it gives him the best case to be showcased, because, regardless of how he plays, I would still take Tua, then if I have tua, and Josh showed well during the season when put into action on a proper timeline, I will have some leverage on other teams that might show interest because of his upside and arrows that are pointing up.
 
Rowdy1972 said:
Exactly. The FO is cutting bait. You don't make the roster considerably worse when you think you have a franchise QB on the roster. Just doesn't happen. They aren't shooting for the top pick to draft a DE or trade down. That first pick is gonna be extremely valuable for a reason.
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They are purging the roster of the past mistakes and high priced low output veterans that don't fit their schemes. The result is what it is, they are not intentionally tanking, The perceived tank is a byproduct of the roster purge, not an intentional attempt to lose games, (that would be a true tank) and NO coach would be on board for that.
If you think you have a franchise QB you don't throw him to the wolves at 22 years old unprotected. He was already put into that position his first year and with our line, it would be a repeat of last year. You protect him physically and mentally and prepare him to take the helm once you're OL is better prepared to protect him and he has a better understanding of the system. The Tunsil trade wasn't part of the roster purge, Houston made an offer we couldn't walk away from. You make that trade all day long when you're rebuilding and have so many holes to fill. Other than that trade, the rest should have been let go without question.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Last season's not his fault. This season won't be his fault, and on, and on... until he's either on someone's bench as a backup or out of the league. If we're talking objectivity, all I have to do is point to his record last year. You're the one making it subjective by giving a bunch of reasons why it was his team's fault for his failures.
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That team was total trash, Marino couldn't have succeded under those conditions, give the kid a break, he's going to be a good QB. Is he going to be "the one", I don't know the answer to that any more than anyone else on this site, but it wouldn't surprise me from what I've seen.
 
13marino13 said:
They are purging the roster of the past mistakes and high priced low output veterans that don't fit their schemes. The result is what it is, they are not intentionally tanking, The perceived tank is a byproduct of the roster purge, not an intentional attempt to lose games, (that would be a true tank) and NO coach would be on board for that.
If you think you have a franchise QB you don't throw him to the wolves at 22 years old unprotected. He was already put into that position his first year and with our line, it would be a repeat of last year. You protect him physically and mentally and prepare him to take the helm once you're OL is better prepared to protect him and he has a better understanding of the system. The Tunsil trade wasn't part of the roster purge, Houston made an offer we couldn't walk away from. You make that trade all day long when you're rebuilding and have so many holes to fill. Other than that trade, the rest should have been let go without question.
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So if you are not trying to win you are .......?

Losing

And if you are Ok putting this product on the field - a complete embarrassment- then this is an intentional tank for the chance at a better future
 
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