Is Channing Crowder a Rick Speilman prospect?

[FIN-IN-RI]

By the fans, right?

Yes, i don't see anyone else calling for his head - ultimately it was Wanny's team and wanny was the reason why we could never make "real noise" in the playoffs. Speilman had the final say for 1 year under an enormous amount of pressure, not all 4. Can't blame him and you certainly can't say he's a terrible talent evaluator.. :2c:

 

[CrunchTime]

That joke wasn't funny the first time it was used in this thread. It hasn't gotten any better with age.

It was rather catty.BTW I like the Crowder pick at the spot we took him.His upside potential is worth the risk at such a spot.

 

[BlueFin]

Of course, that doesn't make it true.

Nor does it make your theory true, the existing evidence leads more to the first four picks being players Saban was high on from his time at LSU. Everything Saban has publically said leads to this thought process, your theory has no basis in fact, unless you can produce something where Saban credits Rick for unearthing this ALL-SEC performer that Saban went against twice and somehow failed to recognize the talent until Rick watched him workout.

I agree, that Saban wouldn't have taken Carey.....unless of course saban was under a "win now" edict....and if that was the case, neither you or I know what Saban would have done.

I don't buy into that theory as well, Rick had control, his future as a GM in this league predicated him making good long term decisions for this franchise, not short-sighted ones in an effort to save Wanny's arse. Had Rick made good decisions last year he might not have been stripped of power and Saban would probably not even be here.

Carey is a future starter, Hadnot already has been a starter, Pope has started and played well in his only opportunity and Bua has the mentality and size to make a fearsome strong safety. That's 5 possible starters out of 6 picks.

We don't know what Carey will be, we just know what he wasn't last year, we also don't know that Hadnot will be a starter once Nick fully assembles his team, Pope is smallish and probably won't be here long under Saban, Bua is probably too slow in todays NFL to be a starting strong safety, Saban likes faster safeties.

being under a "win now" edict clearly indicates that Speilman thought he was working with the 64th pick and the 96th pick, in which case both players more closely align with those values or better.

Well, just as when Spielman was fooled into giving away a fourth rounder to move up one spot.......he thought wrong.

And some of you have said so many times that Speilman will be fired, that you can't possibly look at this with any semblance of objectivity due to the fear that you may be wrong.

Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we aren't looking at it objectively, you don't have to have a wishywashy mind to be objective, some people are objective until the evidence leads to a conviction.....a neccesary thing in life if decisions are to ever be made.

 

[islandah]

Seems to me that one of the main things Saban wanted to do upon arrival was to set up a "process" by which we could move forward, evaluate talent, and make decisions on personnel. I doubt that this process involves any individual getting to make their own pick, Nick included. I'm sure Spielman had a huge role in the evaluation and probably recommendation of Crowder, along with other scouts, coaches, charts, etc.

Certainly Nick would have the final say, but if the process was set up correctly, there probably wasn't much hand-wringing or argument. He would simply be the guy with the highest score left on the board. "If this, then that" type of system.

For the record, Rick has made both good and bad personnel decisions, and clearly terrible negotiating decisions. I have no problem with him as a talent evaluator, just glad he's now part of an organized selection process, doesn't do the negotiating, and doesn't have final say. Might be a perfect fit for him to work under Nick's system.
And Crowder's a stud! A calculated risk like every other draft pick, but a stud.

 

[BlueFin]

This denial is really getting ugly. Saban is a coach, not a scout. Obviously he's had experience with players through his game, but it's Spielman and the scouting department that spend all day evaluating talent. If you believe that Saban just rode in there and disregarded everything Spielman and the scouting department have been doing for the last year, you have no clue what you're talking about.

Listen, I don't like the Wanny regime either, but jesus, cut the denial.

This coming from a 23 year old who thought Spielman made the the picks of Madison, Taylor, Zach and Surtain?

I've was hardcore Dolphin fan 12 years before you were born, nobody said the scouting department didn't do their jobs, the debate was whether Spielman was the impetus for the Crowder selection, which there is no valid evidence to support. Sabans familiarity with the first four picks was the primary reason they were selected, and if you don't recognize that it is you who are in denial my young friend.

 

[gofins]

Doesn"t Even Matter! Saban Picked Him. And I"m Sure He Could Have Made That Decision All By Himself And Didn"t Need Spoilman For Anything. STOP REACHING! SPoilman isn't worth a dam thing.:shakeno:

I guarantee that if Spielman was never associated with Wanstedt, then 90% of the Spielman haters would think that the combo of Saban/Spielman was the greatest thing since the Jenna Jameson realistic cyberskin pu55y!! The other 10% would hate him because he shares the same first name as Mr. Williams.:shakeno:

 

[finphan]

Ahhh....denial. I see.

So if Saban knew him so well, why did he send Rick to scout the Florida pro day? Seems like a waste of time and money if you're already going to choose the guy.

You might be right but I'm sure Saban definitely noticed that Crowder had 2 sacks against him as a freshman (during their Championship run) and last year, he returned against them 10 days after knee surgery to lead the Gators in tackles. Rick could've gone to pro day to look at Fason. Regardless, Crowder is awesome and I hated to see him leave Florida.

 

[ZOD]

Why would Rick be giving a quote if Saban was there?

So, if Saban wasn't there. then Crowder was scouted and recomended by Rick Speilman. I know Saban has last say and knew Channing well but, this is still a little interesting.

Crowder is a wild man like Bua and Pope from last year. Except for his size he's exactly the kind of LBer Rick seemed to like.

Does that change your opinion about Crowder?

Spielman remains one of the best talent evaluators in the league. It's not very often you read reports in print about front office personnels ability. I can't remember where to find the articles but when Rick got the job there were several GM's that acknowledged Spielman's talent.

 

[touborg]

This coming from a 23 year old who thought Spielman made the the picks of Madison, Taylor, Zach and Surtain?

Excuse me? None of those players were drafted by Spielman because he wasn't GM at the time. Could you please refer to a post where I made that claim?

Seriously you must mistake me for another poster.

 

[touborg]

I've was hardcore Dolphin fan 12 years before you were born, nobody said the scouting department didn't do their jobs, the debate was whether Spielman was the impetus for the Crowder selection, which there is no valid evidence to support. Sabans familiarity with the first four picks was the primary reason they were selected, and if you don't recognize that it is you who are in denial my young friend.

Actually there is valid evidence to support this. He is the GM of the Miami Dolphins and oversees scouting. That is factual evidence that supports his role in this years draft.

Your claim on the other hand, relies on your personal speculation that Saban made the picks due to him having played against them. There are no statements to support your claim.
I never said that Saban didn't have a hand in this, his job gives him final say over personel, so he obviously has, I'm just saying that if you think Saban alone is responsible for the draft, and refuse to acknowledge that Spielman had a role, I guess we might aswell fire the GM and all our scouts, since they according to you didn't play a part in this years draft.

 

[EightyTwenty]

Spielman remains one of the best talent evaluators in the league.

No offense, but exactly how has he put this supposed talent to use for the Dolphins over the last 5 years?

 

[inFINSible]

Nor does it make your theory true, the existing evidence leads more to the first four picks being players Saban was high on from his time at LSU. Everything Saban has publically said leads to this thought process, your theory has no basis in fact, unless you can produce something where Saban credits Rick for unearthing this ALL-SEC performer that Saban went against twice and somehow failed to recognize the talent until Rick watched him workout.

Rick is a glorified scout since Saban got here. Rick was at the Georgia Pro day; I haven't seen any evidence that Saban was there. That's all the proof I need to say that Rick was involved in this selection. Rick's degree of involvement is something I guess neither one of us will be able to prove.

I don't buy into that theory as well, Rick had control, his future as a GM in this league predicated him making good long term decisions for this franchise, not short-sighted ones in an effort to save Wanny's arse. Had Rick made good decisions last year he might not have been stripped of power and Saban would probably not even be here.

Rick went out and got a young QB with upside...he traded for a 3 year veteran WR and a second year young RB with upside. He drafted a lineman who should be able to have a nice solid ten year career. Where you get the idea that he wasn't looking towards the future is beyond me. Had rick's choices been handled properly at QB and OL we may be able to say whether he made bad choices our not but, for you to classify them as bad at this point in time reeks of personal bias against Rick.

We don't know what Carey will be, we just know what he wasn't last year, we also don't know that Hadnot will be a starter once Nick fully assembles his team, Pope is smallish and probably won't be here long under Saban, Bua is probably too slow in todays NFL to be a starting strong safety, Saban likes faster safeties.

We know what Carey wasn't last year but, Saban comes in and before he even sees Carey on the field, he moves him to LT. That alone tells me that Saban thinks that Carey may be one of the best linemen on the team. Surely you're not telling me that you trust Wanny and Wises' opinion of Carey, are you?

Well, just as when Spielman was fooled into giving away a fourth rounder to move up one spot.......he thought wrong.

Yes, he did, the crcumstances were just too much to overcome. I don't blame him completely.

Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we aren't looking at it objectively, you don't have to have a wishywashy mind to be objective, some people are objective until the evidence leads to a conviction.....a neccesary thing in life if decisions are to ever be made.

And some people wait until they have all the evidence rather than jumping to conclusions...a necessary thing in life, to avoid regrets.

 

[inFINSible]

No offense, but exactly how has he put this supposed talent to use for the Dolphins over the last 5 years?

Was he the coach of the Dolphins?...did he game plan?...did he make halftime non-adjustments?...Did he have anything to do with fielder coming back to the team?....I could go on....

 

[EightyTwenty]

Was he the coach of the Dolphins?...did he game plan?...did he make halftime non-adjustments?...Did he have anything to do with fielder coming back to the team?....I could go on....

I wasn't asking if he did a good job coaching the team, I asked what exactly he's done in his GM/Personnel position that causes various people on this board to feel like he's talented. Does that clarify the question so you understand it better?

So tell me, what are all these things (and you must be able to name some based on your responses here) that he did/accomplished during his 5 or whatever years as GM/Personnel Director with the Dolphins or Bears that you find are indicative of him being talented?

Seriously- show me some examples.

 

[BlueFin]

Excuse me? None of those players were drafted by Spielman because he wasn't GM at the time. Could you please refer to a post where I made that claim?

Seriously you must mistake me for another poster.

Your right...it was another poster...my apologies.