Is there a player that's growing on you? | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Is there a player that's growing on you?

Awsi Dooger said:
Jeff Thomas was faster than any of them coming out of high school, well at least the Class of 2016. Thomas has a chance to help himself at the combine if he runs back to that 4.38 prep level. But strangely he seemed to tail off as a collegian not only in terms of production but also raw speed and short area quickness and elusiveness. I'll be interested to see if any of that returns once his pro future is at stake.

I posted that link a couple of months ago with the finding that speed is overrated for wide receivers but underrated for running backs. However the league still doesn't see it that way so the 4.4 receivers with no competitiveness whatsoever will continue to be pushed up the ranks while the sub 4.5 running backs will drop to bargain range.

Regarding your point about the TCU quarterbacking...absolutely. It should be next to impossible to manage only 6.2 YPA in the Big 12. Prior to TCU this season, only Kansas had been anywhere near that level or below in the past 5 seasons.
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I think the NFL rightly sees the value in WR's who stress defenses with their speed and wrongly pushes up bad WR's who are fast. If a WR is really fast but doesn't track the ball well, he's not really a deep threat, and he'll be relegated to a gadget role.

WR is one of the more skill-dependent positions on the field. Elite physical traits are still desirable, but WR is not a position where you can take a raw athlete and expect him to develop. Also, a lot of the speed guys are too slight, and the bust rate on slight WR's is very high.

The big point - to me - is that good WR's, who are also very fast, add a unique dimension to an offense and stress defenses in ways that good WR's, who are not fast, do not. Stretching the defense vertically is the biggest advantage and the one we usually think about, but with the increase in jet sweeps and motion in general, they can also stretch the defense horizontally. KC scored two TD's vs Tennessee on jet-motion plays with Hill - once where they gave him the ball and once where they used the motion to freeze the LB's. So, I don't think speed will make a given WR more likely to succeed, but I do think it has a big impact on the type of success that player will have in the NFL.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
I think the NFL rightly sees the value in WR's who stress defenses with their speed and wrongly pushes up bad WR's who are fast.
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Tall receivers who have not been long term stars but run fast at the combine are given too much credit. That's the way I would summarize. It is one of the great sucker variables of the combine.

I've seen it first hand for years at college entry level with the Canes. They have recruited a sustained allotment of 6-2 to 6-5 guys with good measurable speed. It lends to raves on Canes websites, with proclamations of hidden gem. Then time and again the player turns out to be nothing. Not instinctive enough. Not competitive enough. The Dolphins have brought a few of them in for a look. Still nothing.

Contrast to the one legitimate star the Canes had recently, Ahmmon Richards. Unfortunately he had a career ending neck injury. Richards was in the ideal height range at 6-1 plus he had the plucky athletic arrogance and route running guile, along with running 4.4. He looked like a first round pick as a true freshman. Nick Saban tried to recruit Richards in the late going and was reportedly sick about losing out.

This season the Canes obviously had a lousy season. But the one player Canes fans loved out of nowhere was KJ Osborn. He is not particularly fast but he does all the little things well, like actually out battling the defensive back and plucking the ball in traffic. Clever routes both inside and out. It was mostly normalcy. It stood out in Coral Gables only because the priority list has been so flawed at that position recently. Jeff Thomas is small and runs fast but he does not have the combativeness. Too often he merely drifts and waits for the ball, which is batted away.

That position is the closest thing to 12 rounds of boxing. Man to man and face to face with the cornerback all game long. You won this round but I'll win the next round. That's why there have been so many famous inflamed confrontations like Andre Johnson vs Cortland Finnegan and Odell Beckham versus Josh Norman. I could name plenty more going back decades. It is also largely the reason NFL scouts fail so dependably at wide receiver when they spotlight measurables as opposed to whether or not a receiver can impose his will. When positional requirements were mentioned here recently I forget exactly what Slimm posted regarding wide receiver but I agreed with it because it focused on competitiveness and not a physical trait.
 
Bradlee Anae is really growing on me. Love his relentless motor, he gets after the QB with bad intentions.
 
j-off-her-doll said:






Bet most people don't know that, of the 2020 WR's, only Tee Higgins and Jerry Jeudy were higher rated coming out of HS. Reagor's father is retired DL, Montae Reagor. He ran a 4.41 coming out of HS, but he ran an - of course, unofficial - 4.29 before the 2019 season.

For people unsure of Reagor, check out his 2019 game vs Ohio State. Keeping in mind that OSU has been as good as anyone at CB over the last 5 years, notice how easily Reagor separates.

Terrible QB play aside (30% of Reagor's targets were uncatchable - most of the 2020 prospects by about 10%), TCU didn't do much to maximize Reagor's talent. Usually, they lined him up outside, making it easy to roll coverage his way.

In 2019, he averaged 20.8 (!!) yards per punt return. He and Lynn Bowden Jr are the best in the class at returning punts.

In a stacked WR class, no one would add more to Miami's offense than Reagor. He'd open things up for Parker and Gesicki, and he's a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Elite speed, burst, and quickness, and he's strong/thick.

Btw, when you see him wearing 18 in these highlights, it's from his Freshman year, when he was 18 years old.
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Sexy, Superfast car, I get it! But ouside of health, What would a kid like this bring to your offense that someone like J.Grant can't?
 
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Not ready to give up on Jakeem Grant until I see a QB like Tua throwing the ball to him. And I’m intrigued about the idea of Albert Wilson being amenable to a pay cut. Another player you don’t want to give up on until you see Tua throwing to him.

I like some of the receivers in this class but I think Miami has plenty at the position. They have skill AND variety. We say it all the time but for good reason, the resources need to be focused on the OL. And Michael Deiter should not be one of those answers.
 
ANUFan said:
Sexy, Superfast car, I get it! But ouside of health, What would a kid bring like this to your offense that someone like J.Grant doesn't?
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Reagor is a very good receiver, and Jakeem Grant is not. Reagor is also 4 or 5 inches taller and about 30 lbs heavier. They're both fast, but that's where their similarities end.
 
ckparrothead said:
Not ready to give up on Jakeem Grant until I see a QB like Tua throwing the ball to him. And I’m intrigued about the idea of Albert Wilson being amenable to a pay cut. Another player you don’t want to give up on until you see Tua throwing to him.

I like some of the receivers in this class but I think Miami has plenty at the position. They have skill AND variety. We say it all the time but for good reason, the resources need to be focused on the OL. And Michael Deiter should not be one of those answers.
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The OL situation is dire, no doubt, but if Miami doesn't upgrade WR, it will enter 2020 with a below average group. Wilson and Grant are gadget players. Williams is an UDFA who showed promise, but I think it's unwise to count on him, and Parker is coming off the only good year of his career. I think the light clicked on for Parker, and I think he'll continue to be very good - maybe even great - but he's the only one I would count on, and even then, I know there's a possibility he'll turn into a pumpkin.

If you want to help your young QB, you build him a quality OL, and you give him high-end targets. Miami has the resources to address both.
 
There’s no way I believe this is a below average group. Albert Wilson and Jakeem Grant are out there creating separation regularly and our QBs can’t hit them, partly because they’re inconsistent and partly because of the line blocking. I have even a critic of Parker’s since before he was drafted. But he legitimately stepped up. And Preston Williams is showing massive promise. As I said when he was signed UDFA, this is a combination you do not often see. His long speed, hands, concentration, and ability to sink and run his routes, he’s got a very bright future. This is one of the best receiving units I’ve seen on this team in a long, long time. Better than the Landry units. They’re just waiting for the QB that can be consistent, and the OL to give him time without the plays being constantly disrupted.

This unit could particularly break out when you have a guy like Tua setting up with fast feet and throwing a shade early, making quick decisions that maximize separation for the speedy guys, and give the bigger guys the ability to use their body on the ball and/or get YAC.

The only reasons they looked below average at any point last year were: 1) health, 2) Josh Rosen, 3) offensive line play, 4) bad Fitzpatrick.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Reagor is a very good receiver, and Jakeem Grant is not. Reagor is also 4 or 5 inches taller and about 30 lbs heavier. They're both fast, but that's where their similarities end.
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ckparrothead said:
Not ready to give up on Jakeem Grant until I see a QB like Tua throwing the ball to him. And I’m intrigued about the idea of Albert Wilson being amenable to a pay cut. Another player you don’t want to give up on until you see Tua throwing to him.

I like some of the receivers in this class but I think Miami has plenty at the position. They have skill AND variety. We say it all the time but for good reason, the resources need to be focused on the OL. And Michael Deiter should not be one of those answers.
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I think we all like J.Grant. But, sadly, i think the writings on the wall for him. Even with an already diminished workload he can't manage to make it through the entire season for 2 years in a row now. Right now he's half-a-season KR guy, you can't trust him with catching on PR-duties, less than servable slot guy, 50/50 as a boundary guy. That's pretty much it!

If you're Miami I don't know how you keep him over an Isiah Ford, for example. Obviously, If Albert refuses to take a pay cut then that makes the decision easier and this is assuming you don't draft another reciever in the mid-to later rounds.
 
How is the writing on the wall for him? They literally JUST gave him a contract extension. A real long one, too.
 
Tua throws such a catchable ball, I would expect all receivers drop ratio to go down, could help Grant especially.
 
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