Marino 4th best ever bahind Elway and Favre
- Thread starter dolphan39
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So why are the rest better than Marino then?
M-REAL
"Another Battle, for the AFC East Title"
Montana was the best. But he is done, who can be considered the best here and now?
Hellion
She can rub my Baltars!
I agree to a point with Oliver, but I think he was more stubborn about running the ball in his later years, because he never had a running game, he had a need to have control of the game and he was in the late stages of his carear and only trusted himself to get the job done.
Now in his early years if Shula could've astablished a solid running game around Marino and showed him it's value, then I think history would be different and it may of helped prolong his career and he would've trusted the running game more. The plus side to this is a better defense that's on the field less.
IMO if the above analogy would have happened he'd be at #1 and we'd be bragging about several SB championships.
SuperMarksBros.
Formerly Fiedler for MVP
Re: Re: Marino 4th best ever bahind Elway and Favre
without marino, some miami playoff teams with NO defense and NO rushing attack whatsoever would have finished in last place...how's that for great.
without marino, some miami playoff teams with NO defense and NO rushing attack whatsoever would have finished in last place...how's that for great.
FinsGoToGuy
Practice Squad
I see Marino much like I've seen Patrick Roy with the Montreal Canadiens (NHL). Since Roy went to Colorado, Montreal has struggle to make the playoff, something they hadn't done in something than 30 years. They won 2 championship (86-93) that they weren't suppose to because of his stellar play. They had some good player, but if Roy wouldn't been there the Canadiens would be in that situation for far longer.
Fortunately for the fins Jimmy Johnson came in and builded a solid defense that is still the foundation of the current team. Yes Johnson didn't have the sucess we wanted from him, but the current team leaders come from his era. He anticipated the departure of Marino, but he avoided us the same problem that the Canadiens are now facing by changing the pass-oriented philosophy to a strong defensive team and a balanced offense.
But in the 80s & 90s, what would have been the Dolphins without Marino ? A marginal team ? ...
Fortunately for the fins Jimmy Johnson came in and builded a solid defense that is still the foundation of the current team. Yes Johnson didn't have the sucess we wanted from him, but the current team leaders come from his era. He anticipated the departure of Marino, but he avoided us the same problem that the Canadiens are now facing by changing the pass-oriented philosophy to a strong defensive team and a balanced offense.
But in the 80s & 90s, what would have been the Dolphins without Marino ? A marginal team ? ...
I am not going to get jacked up over some fly by night internet writer's opinion. Here is what I can tell you. I was at the Hall of Fame and they have a whole display setup dedicated to Dan and his records.
No other QB has such a display. I also can tell you that this is a team game. Elway struggled to win the SB before he got Terrell Davis and a D around him. Brett Favre was traded from a few teams before landing in Green Bay. This hogwash about the measure of a QB being the Super Bowl is a sham by the fans and media of the teams that won to keep their guy in the lime light.
Make no doubt about it, Dan is the best ever. Period. It's not even close.
No other QB has such a display. I also can tell you that this is a team game. Elway struggled to win the SB before he got Terrell Davis and a D around him. Brett Favre was traded from a few teams before landing in Green Bay. This hogwash about the measure of a QB being the Super Bowl is a sham by the fans and media of the teams that won to keep their guy in the lime light.
Make no doubt about it, Dan is the best ever. Period. It's not even close.
mls737
Brent Barry
People like to say Montana was a system QB, but he did take Kansas City to the AFC chamionship game in '93.
Paquiviris
Practice Squad
Dan the Man
In my heart Marino will always be #1 if we go by stats, desire and grit. Unitas bing a very close #2. Elway would have been ranked in the lower top #10 had he not won the last 2 titles. Terrell Davis and a solid D had a lot to do with it. Favre won his ring with a good supporting cast. There were days from 1994 till 1999 were Favre looked like the best ever. And yet like someone already has said in '02 Favre lacked the desire, but for the sole purpose of the ownership not willing to surround him with talent. Marino went through phases like that all through his career. I had heard several times that Marino was an SOB who wanted to throw 50 times a game, that he was adamant about calling plays and not running the ball, that he only cared about stats. Let's not forget Marino will have a limp for the rest of his life thanks to the scars of numerous surgeries. Let's not forget in his comeback game in '94 against NE Marino rushed for 13 yards and a first down. Marino probably never had much confidence in his tail backs because he never saw any desire in any of them to be a workhorse or to "take over" a game. He also was angry at ownership and the scouts for drafting so poorly from 1986 till 1991. The defense never got beefed up during his prime due to the drafting of dogs or junkies like John Bosa, Jackie Shipp, Brian Sochia, and Jay Brophy. Remember his trade talk of going to the Fallcons? He simply was tired of ownership and poor drafting which wasted his several 4000+ yard seasons. In the end, (by 1997) Marino was bitter towards the media who blamed him for the Dolphins failures while trying to salvage the image of Jimmy Johnson (at times a media member). Marino has heard the "never won the big one" rap many many times. He's probably sick of it. The all-time rankings are always up for debate. Marino should be in everyone's top 5. Taking away from his accomplishments as a QB for a title is ridiculous. Just look a baseball Ted Williams is always considered the best hitter ever. How many titles his Sox won?...the same amount Marino's Dolphins did....none.
In my heart Marino will always be #1 if we go by stats, desire and grit. Unitas bing a very close #2. Elway would have been ranked in the lower top #10 had he not won the last 2 titles. Terrell Davis and a solid D had a lot to do with it. Favre won his ring with a good supporting cast. There were days from 1994 till 1999 were Favre looked like the best ever. And yet like someone already has said in '02 Favre lacked the desire, but for the sole purpose of the ownership not willing to surround him with talent. Marino went through phases like that all through his career. I had heard several times that Marino was an SOB who wanted to throw 50 times a game, that he was adamant about calling plays and not running the ball, that he only cared about stats. Let's not forget Marino will have a limp for the rest of his life thanks to the scars of numerous surgeries. Let's not forget in his comeback game in '94 against NE Marino rushed for 13 yards and a first down. Marino probably never had much confidence in his tail backs because he never saw any desire in any of them to be a workhorse or to "take over" a game. He also was angry at ownership and the scouts for drafting so poorly from 1986 till 1991. The defense never got beefed up during his prime due to the drafting of dogs or junkies like John Bosa, Jackie Shipp, Brian Sochia, and Jay Brophy. Remember his trade talk of going to the Fallcons? He simply was tired of ownership and poor drafting which wasted his several 4000+ yard seasons. In the end, (by 1997) Marino was bitter towards the media who blamed him for the Dolphins failures while trying to salvage the image of Jimmy Johnson (at times a media member). Marino has heard the "never won the big one" rap many many times. He's probably sick of it. The all-time rankings are always up for debate. Marino should be in everyone's top 5. Taking away from his accomplishments as a QB for a title is ridiculous. Just look a baseball Ted Williams is always considered the best hitter ever. How many titles his Sox won?...the same amount Marino's Dolphins did....none.
Scrap
Go Fins
No offense to Favre, but I don't think he is better than Dan.Elway, and Montana could be arguably better, but I see Favre as slightly behind Dan.
themole
FinHeaven VIP
Hey Oliver...I'm in your camp on this statement too. I also like your politics.:D
ohall
A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.
Re: Re: Re: Marino 4th best ever bahind Elway and Favre
Simply, I don't agree with that.
Marino stifled the rushing attack by audible out of rushing plays, not calling them when he use to call the plays him self, and he also wore out his D. Marino’s GREATNESS to score at will and quickly, wore out our D, because they were constantly on the field.
I'm not sitting here blaming Marino ALONE for not winning a title; I am simply trying to make it clear I do not feel he is guiltless for not winning a title. He deserves as much credit for getting the Dolphins to a Super Bowl as he does for not winning one.
If someone wants to think Marino is guiltless for not winning a title for himself, his team, and for us the fans, that's their option.
Oliver...
Simply, I don't agree with that.
Marino stifled the rushing attack by audible out of rushing plays, not calling them when he use to call the plays him self, and he also wore out his D. Marino’s GREATNESS to score at will and quickly, wore out our D, because they were constantly on the field.
I'm not sitting here blaming Marino ALONE for not winning a title; I am simply trying to make it clear I do not feel he is guiltless for not winning a title. He deserves as much credit for getting the Dolphins to a Super Bowl as he does for not winning one.
If someone wants to think Marino is guiltless for not winning a title for himself, his team, and for us the fans, that's their option.
Oliver...
ohall
A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.
I like your politics as well Mole.
I love Dan, he's my FAV all time Dolphins player, and athlete, as I’m sure he is to most here as well, but as a Dolphins fan I cannot feel some what disappointed that some one so great was unable to get us all that title.
But the over whelming feeling I have is that there is no player that deserved a title more so than Marino.
This is also why I get so frustrated when ppl call me a HOMER, at least when ppl imply I am impartial because a player wears a Dolphins UNI.
Oliver...
I don't think Dan can be blamed for our running game's woes. Look no further than Shula, who has always said "How can you take the ball out of his hands??"
I just can't see Dan doing his best to take the ball out of Terrell Davis', Dorsey Levans', and Roger Craig's hands. And I refuse to believe that Dan would have rather not had a Ricky Williams behind him.
Hell, he envied Kelly's Buffalo teams. He envied the talent they had over there. Honestly, we really had no business competing with them in the early 90s. There are four first ballot Hall of Famers on that team (Kelly, Thurman, Reed, Bruce Smith).
And yet somehow, we did. That "somehow" was Dan Marino. He would have absolutely won titles with those teams....if not more.
I just can't see Dan doing his best to take the ball out of Terrell Davis', Dorsey Levans', and Roger Craig's hands. And I refuse to believe that Dan would have rather not had a Ricky Williams behind him.
Hell, he envied Kelly's Buffalo teams. He envied the talent they had over there. Honestly, we really had no business competing with them in the early 90s. There are four first ballot Hall of Famers on that team (Kelly, Thurman, Reed, Bruce Smith).
And yet somehow, we did. That "somehow" was Dan Marino. He would have absolutely won titles with those teams....if not more.