Marino 4th best ever bahind Elway and Favre | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Marino 4th best ever bahind Elway and Favre

This is so stupid. Marino is the best easy. If you are going by Super Bowl wins that means you have to rank Dilfer and Brad Johnson and Jim McMahon ahead of Dan because they won rings and he didn't. You can't count SBs because they are team efforts.

The argument that Dan is the best "Passer" but not in other areas makes no sense who else was better in what areas?

Montana-Leadership? How much of a leader and field general did it take to run Bill Walsh's system with that team around you (Rice,Craig, Rathman,Clark)?

Elway-Great leadership. Agreed. Right there with Dan for rallying a team and carrying a team on his shoulders for years until ownership put some quality around him.

I think to accomplish the wins Dan did over his years in Miami was a miracle. If you look at the entire roster over his career Miami was average at best. it was Dan who made them competitive and winners. He was the Miami Dolphins. If that is not leadership I don't know what is. Dan accomplished those records with teams that were never half as good as the 49ers or Bronco or Packer Super Bowl teams. Once again a testiment to his individual talent.

So if he has the best stats and the best leadership, tell me why he is not the best??
 
Originally posted by MDFINFAN


and how do you qualify this, what attributes make him not a greaat leader, he was as ferce as any QB I've seen, guiding his each game..Hungary for the win, off the field model citizen, on the field a motivator, a follow me guy. So I would like for you to explain your statement.
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The fact that finfans admit that he'd rather throw than run simply says he'd rather do it himself even if it meant otherwise. He battled against Jimmy Johnson who btw knows what it takes to win a sb. (I can't stand JJ more than Dan though)

Don't get me wrong Marino is one of the greatest qb to ever play the game but he had enough flaws for an argument to say he wasn't the best.

Just because he had the best arm doesn't make him the best qb.

Model citizen? Maybe. This thread isn't about his personal life. That's for another discussion.
 
I think the one who said you can place Marino, Elway and Montana in any order for the top 3 and you wouldn't be going wrong is probably dead on. 'Cept.. I still would put Montana below both of 'em. =)

There are plenty of reasons Marino AND Elway could easily be considered #1.

BroncoFox
 
Originally posted by justafan



The fact that finfans admit that he'd rather throw than run simply says he'd rather do it himself even if it meant otherwise. He battled against Jimmy Johnson who btw knows what it takes to win a sb. (I can't stand JJ more than Dan though)

Don't get me wrong Marino is one of the greatest qb to ever play the game but he had enough flaws for an argument to say he wasn't the best.

Just because he had the best arm doesn't make him the best qb.

Model citizen? Maybe. This thread isn't about his personal life. That's for another discussion.
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But you see, leadership goes both on and off the field, all this impacts a great player, and in this case a great QB, If R. Leaf had had a great on field present and lightning it up, but was in trouble with the law all the time, it would have impacted his ability to be a good QB and earn the respect of his teammates..I.E., can I trust this guy to be there when we need him or will he be in jail next week. This impacts on his ability to lead. On the running thing, Audrey was able to gain a 1000 yards behind Marino, Overstreet was given the ball a lot behind Marino, if Dan had a back who he could rely on, he would have given up the ball, for 3rd and 4 or more, he trusted his arm. Unfortunately, he never had that back. In his latter years, his ability to scamble or inability to, was a liability for him, but not so in his early years, he'd make the moves to get enough space to fire the ball. Again you go back to his heart on the field and he had the heart of a lion, his teammates knew it and felt no matter where they were on the field they could get it done. That's a leader, as long as 13 was behind center, everyone sat on the edge of their seats, knowing that the next play could be the one. And Buffalo had their share of his magic and you know it.
 
Originally posted by MDFINFAN


But you see, leadership goes both on and off the field, all this impacts a great player, and in this case a great QB, If R. Leaf had had a great on field present and lightning it up, but was in trouble with the law all the time, it would have impacted his ability to be a good QB and earn the respect of his teammates..I.E., can I trust this guy to be there when we need him or will he be in jail next week. This impacts on his ability to lead. On the running thing, Audrey was able to gain a 1000 yards behind Marino, Overstreet was given the ball a lot behind Marino, if Dan had a back who he could rely on, he would have given up the ball, for 3rd and 4 or more, he trusted his arm. Unfortunately, he never had that back. In his latter years, his ability to scamble or inability to, was a liability for him, but not so in his early years, he'd make the moves to get enough space to fire the ball. Again you go back to his heart on the field and he had the heart of a lion, his teammates knew it and felt no matter where they were on the field they could get it done. That's a leader, as long as 13 was behind center, everyone sat on the edge of their seats, knowing that the next play could be the one. And Buffalo had their share of his magic and you know it.
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I'm not disagreeing with you about what he's achieved. I just don't think he was the best leader.


I remember the Bronco's saying "let's win one for John". Never heard such thing about Marino. As a matter of fact the opposite happened against the Jaguars.

My opinion of Dan is is not putting him down. Reread the thread and you will see finfans making harsher criticisms against Dan. I forget, I'm a bills fan therefore what I say is smack, right?

Maybe you want me to go out and say it, Dan was better than Kelly. I still say he wasn't the best. I am neither wrong nor right, same goes for you.
 
opinions, polls,and all this if this guy played on this team or had those players be it dan or elway,montana, johnny u, is half truths that can be twisted and interpeted any way you want. the only thing that is concrete is the numbers and the numbers arent biased. and all this stuff dan was a big reason we didnt win a superbowl is hog wash dan was the main reason we were even competive. we had no d and no running game in order to hand the ball off you had to have somebody decent to hand it to .the fo. failed dan misarably when it came to putting a supporting cast around dan.
 
Originally posted by justafan

I remember the Bronco's saying "let's win one for John". Never heard such thing about Marino. As a matter of fact the opposite happened against the Jaguars.
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That is 1,000% inaccurate. The entire Jimmy Johnson era was dedicated to "winning one for Dan".

Also, I don't quite understand what the Jaguar comment means
 
Originally posted by justafan


I'm not disagreeing with you about what he's achieved. I just don't think he was the best leader.


I remember the Bronco's saying "let's win one for John". Never heard such thing about Marino. As a matter of fact the opposite happened against the Jaguars.

My opinion of Dan is is not putting him down. Reread the thread and you will see finfans making harsher criticisms against Dan. I forget, I'm a bills fan therefore what I say is smack, right?

Maybe you want me to go out and say it, Dan was better than Kelly. I still say he wasn't the best. I am neither wrong nor right, same goes for you.
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Thanks Muck, that was my next response, Justa, maybe you should define what a great leader is, I can't believe you don't think the dolphin teams around Marino, didn't want to get him a ring..maybe you weren't on the boards during that time, but please explain what you mean, I'm not seeing it. BTW, this has nothing to do with you being a bills fan, this has everything to do with how you define leadership.
 
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I never liked these threads about "who's the best ever". For one, stats are the biggest form of misleading. Marino is my favorite all time QB...The best? Maybe. Statistically he absolutely was. Having said that, I always felt that Elway was the guy I'd choose to go to battle with. The more I think about it though the 1983 class were equals for different reasons. I mention 1983 because, thanks to Dan, that's where my heart and fondest memories are. The battles between these guys were great and yet they all remain friends today. Ok, Todd Blackledge didn't pan out but even Ken O'Brian was a playoff QB. Realistically we have Marino, Kelly and Elway. I'd go to battle confidently with any one of these guys. Nobody threw a better ball than Danny...period. No QB was ever tougher than Jim Kelly...period. Nobody kept their poise when his back was against the wall like John Elway...period....well, except for Montana. Dan had no running game ever so he had to put up those numbers and thank god he did. Kelly had a HOF back behind him so there's no way he'd ever have to pass that much. Elway's backs were hit and miss. TD was the first great back he played with but his situation was more like Dans.
 
Sadly enough, in about twenty years, there will be people who say none of these guys were the greatest. People have short memories. Even though Dan has the stats to back it up, people will say he wasn't as good as a few that they will have playing then.
 
Originally posted by MDFINFAN


Thanks Muck, that was my next response, Justa, maybe you should define what a great leader is, I can't believe you don't think the dolphin teams around Marino, didn't want to get him a ring..maybe you weren't on the boards during that time, but please explain what you mean, I'm not seeing it. BTW, this has nothing to do with you being a bills fan, this has everything to do with how you define leadership.
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I don't know what you want me to say. I never said that Dan was not a great leader, he just wasn't the greatest IMO.

Dan has all the passing records which is why I say he is the best passer. He isn't the most complete qb which is why some poeple say isn't the greatest all around qb.

Kell IMO was a better field general, a coach on the field . Til' this day no one was as good calling his own plays at the line of scrimage. Sure , he did have Thurman and Reed but he knew when and how to use them at the line of scrimage. Before you call me biased, I think Dan is better than Kelly but this is one area where Kelly was better IMO. Not even Manning has been able to run the no-huddle like Kelly did and yet Manning has better physical capabilites than Kelly. Oh and yeah, like Uncle Ted said, Kelly was the toughest qb.

Farve, Montana and Elway were better at getting out of tight situations once the ball was snapped than Dan. If threre was on qb I would chose to lead a rally under pressure that would be Elway. But Dan had a better arm. Farve to me is the best at throwing the ball on the run , off balance, but Damnhad a better arm.

Dan could not fool anyone into bitting into his play fakes. Even finfans say this. HIs feet is another shotcoming.

Like I said although Marino has all the passing records he wasn't the comnplete all around qb which is one reason why some people will argue he wasnt the greatest. No one can argue he wasn't the greatest "PASSER" . Whatever shortcomings he had, he made up with his arms.
 
Originally posted by justafan


Oh and yeah, like Uncle Ted said, Kelly was the toughest qb.

B]
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Sorry, no QB tougher than Favre, hasn't missed a game yet.
By my count Kelly missed 12 in 11 seasons
And never put together a string of starts longer than three seasons

BTW in Marino's 1st 10 years he never missed a game, this was an NFL record until Favre broke it.

Best Field General I ever saw was Griese. In fact the announcers often called him the "field general".
 
Favre is, imo, cut from the same mold as Kelly. The announcers call everybody a "field general". That's what Kelly was always called in the early 90's. I agree that Griese is also one of the best. Missed games is only part of the toughness thing. There are some injuries that you just can't play through regardless of how tough you are.
 
Originally posted by UncleTed
Missed games is only part of the toughness thing. There are some injuries that you just can't play through regardless of how tough you are.
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True, but it is the only measurable statistic that we have to go by.
Otherwise, it is just "My QB is tougher than your QB"

Kelly was tough, but he missed a lot of games throughout his career. Favre hasn't missed any despite injuries that he should have sat out for.

Actually when you talk about Marino, Kelly, Favre, & Elway these are all QB's that were fiercely determined to play every week and would never allow minor injury to slow them down.

But I still have to give the nod to Favre. The man has got the record and no one else is even close.
 
I love Favre and actually he's not just cut from the Kelly mold but also from the Marino and Elway mold. I think most of today's QB's can't hold a candle to what was there 10 years ago and before. Warren Moon, Steve Young and Jim McMahon were all tough as nails as well. You're right though...it is a "mine is better than yours" situation. I also think it's too hard to compare statistics from different generations. I don't like "who's the best..." or "if they played today..". It's too difficult. I heard a fella on TV the other day talking about how Wilt Chamberlin wouldn't be good today because he only weighed 250lbs. or something at his height and he'd be more like Shawn Bradley. Today's players would beat the hell out of him etc.... Realistically if he played today he'd have today's trainers and supplements and probably weigh over 300lbs. I just don't like it.
 
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