Mel Kiper- Jake Long is a Left Tackle

[dlockz]

No, they don't



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=3316

Nothing in that article says that Kubiak was going to take or wanted to take GInn. In fact they did not expect Okaye to be there so even if they were looking at GInn it might have been because they expected Okaye to be gone.
I'm pretty sure there were some players that if they fell we would have taken over Ginn. Seriously though that article does nothing to prove your point. It said he might have hoped. Hell we might have hoped we were in a position to take Levi Brown. Nothing said by Kubiak implied he wanted Ginn in that article.


“He was our top-rated defensive player on the board...This kid is an outstanding football player.â€
In his heart of hearts, Kubiak might have hoped the Texans would be in a position to snatch an offensive dynamo, but with Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and Ted Ginn Jr. all off the board by the time the Texans chose, it was easy to pull the trigger on Okoye, a player who reminds Kubiak of someone in his past.

“I’ll tell you when we were watching him preparing for the draft, I have a player that I’m a big fan of from my time in San Francisco, Bryant Young, who was a great player for many years,†Kubiak said when asked if Okoye reminded him of anyone.
Kubiak also acknowledged that Okoye’s skill set is something that you don’t see come around every year.

In Fact you could debate like I said that they would have taken Okaye no matter what because they expected him to go higher.


The fact that Okoye was available came as surprise to many as most mock drafts had the 19-year old phenom going before Houston went on the clock. The Texans were in that group.
“We absolutely were shocked,†Smith said. “I think in all of our mock drafts we looked at one scenario in which he was available.â€


Also if you were referring to they did not have a kick returner Jerome Mathis was a pro bowler as a rookie as a returnman.

I do appreciate your input but you must admit this did not make your case.

 

[dlockz]

BACK TO JAKE:

he is a beast up front, he is a beast down field into the linebackers. he is possibly as locked to a target i have seen a lineman in a long long time, you do not see many shedding him. on the negative, he is not going to be good against speed rushers at all. watching him struggle to the outside ever so consistantly, think of the game speed and rushers he'd face in the NFL, it is even faster. Jake will struggle to the outside, as well as moves to his left when he's already in motion to the right.... but he will be a great tackle in the NFL all in all (especially run). just be ready when he lets up some sacks and a good amount of pressure.

I do think he is better suited to left tackle then Carey. Would you agree?

 

[TotoreMexico]

How do u know that Houston was going to take Ginn, because someone on this board said so. Most draft experts had him going around the 15th pick. St louis was considered a possibility, Pittsburgh and Tennesse was mentioned quite often.

I guess Adam Schefter is a poster on this board:rolleyes2:

Adam Schefter - * Let's be clear about this: Miami might have made a mistake drafting wide receiver Ted Ginn ahead of Brady Quinn, but it did not reach for him. Had the Dolphins passed on Ginn, the Houston Texans very likely would have taken Ginn one pick later at No. 10. Ginn was the player the Texans wanted. They envisioned lining him up as the home-run threat opposite Pro Bowl wide receiver Andre Johnson and giving them a pair of receivers that almost could equal Indianapolis' Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.

 

[dlockz]

I guess Adam Schefter is a poster on this board:rolleyes2:

Adam Shefter is just one guy of that opinion, I'm sure there are others but that is not the point. Shefter assumes that Houston would have taken Ginn based on what he heard. Does not make it the truth also did not take into consideration that Okaye dropped which might have changed thier plans because a possibly higher rated player dropped. When you pick 11th you usually dont zero in on one guy and stay with that pick regardless of who falls. I'm sure ther are some players that if they had dropped would have changed our plans or maybe we had a differant plan since all GM's tend to act like thier draft went as expected. I have never heard any GM say well we missed on this guy so we took player b. Alot of draft experts thought Ginn was a reach so why does Shefter's opinion count any more than thiers? I will address my review of the draft and say I really did not look at Ginn as a big reach at the time, I just think we made a mistake passing on a player like Quinn to take a WR. I advocated taking Brown from the beginnig in the draft and the only thing I heard on this board was that Levi Brown was a reach at our pick and lo and behold he went 4 picks before us.

 

[TotoreMexico]

Nothing in that article says that Kubiak was going to take or wanted to take GInn. In fact they did not expect Okaye to be there so even if they were looking at GInn it might have been because they expected Okaye to be gone.
I'm pretty sure there were some players that if they fell we would have taken over Ginn. Seriously though that article does nothing to prove your point. It said he might have hoped. Hell we might have hoped we were in a position to take Levi Brown. Nothing said by Kubiak implied he wanted Ginn in that article.


“He was our top-rated defensive player on the board...This kid is an outstanding football player.â€
In his heart of hearts, Kubiak might have hoped the Texans would be in a position to snatch an offensive dynamo, but with Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and Ted Ginn Jr. all off the board by the time the Texans chose, it was easy to pull the trigger on Okoye, a player who reminds Kubiak of someone in his past.

“I’ll tell you when we were watching him preparing for the draft, I have a player that I’m a big fan of from my time in San Francisco, Bryant Young, who was a great player for many years,†Kubiak said when asked if Okoye reminded him of anyone.
Kubiak also acknowledged that Okoye’s skill set is something that you don’t see come around every year.

In Fact you could debate like I said that they would have taken Okaye no matter what because they expected him to go higher.


The fact that Okoye was available came as surprise to many as most mock drafts had the 19-year old phenom going before Houston went on the clock. The Texans were in that group.
“We absolutely were shocked,†Smith said. “I think in all of our mock drafts we looked at one scenario in which he was available.â€


Also if you were referring to they did not have a kick returner Jerome Mathis was a pro bowler as a rookie as a returnman.

I do appreciate your input but you must admit this did not make your case.

Check this one dlockz

Mueller said that his 'intelligence' had Houston definitely taking Ginn with the next pick at 10.

http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2007/05/mueller_chat_an.html

 

[dlockz]

Check this one dlockz



http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2007/05/mueller_chat_an.html

Just because Mueller believed Houston was taking Ginn is still not evidence. If every team knows what every other team is going to do then why would Houston target a player that they knew we were going to take. This also furthers my take that teams are pretty damn secretative about thier picks unless they have the top pick and then they are still trying to leverage trades and agents.




I dont doubt that his intelligence told him that. That still does not show that was Houston's intent for two reasons. One the dreaded smokescreen and the other was intelligence is not an exact science ask George Bush. That also does not take into account that Okaye dropped so thier plans if they were Ginn might have changed with Okaye dropping. How many teams probably had intelligence that we were taking Quinn if he was there? In all reality it doesn't matter if Ginn was a reach because if they wanted an offensive WR like Ginn he was the top player of that type on the board at the time. To me Ginn was not a great pick at that spot because in my opinion he was not the best player available or at our biggest need area but they got who they wanted whether its was the right decision or not.

 

[Boomer]

Its all good. Now whats your take on that Bud Light a previous poster just handed you. Do you find it quite overrated with a slow forty time.

I think it needs a good 40 in Indianapolis or it's going to be a FA.

 

[Boomer]

I made a joke about beer because Boomer lives in England, If you have ever been to Europe you would know they are quite fond of thier beer. Why was my comment such a problem. I think we were fairly civil in our disagreement but fail to see why you have a problem with that very irrelevant comment. Some people are way too sensitive and look for way more than is there with that comment. Or maybe you were joking so if so I apologize but I dont think you were joking. Please explain to me what was so bad about my comment.

I took it in the spirit intended my man.

 

[Boomer]

Of course Jake Long is a left tackle....he may not be a perfect left tackle...or one that some fans want...but he is what he is...a left tackle.

2007: Finished second in the voting for the Lombardi Award and Outland Trophy…Unanimous All-Big Ten Conference first-team pick and named the league's Offensive Lineman of the Year for the second-straight season…Added Academic All-Big Ten Conference honors… Hugh R. Rader Jr. Memorial Award recipient as Michigan's top offensive lineman and received the Mike Gittleson Award, given to the U-M player who exhibits a resolute work ethic and commitment to preparing for the game...Served as team captain for the second consecutive campaign, starting all thirteen games at left offensive tackle…Helped the team average 385.1 yards per game…The Wolverines amassed 1,251 of their 2,144 yards on the ground over Long's left tackle position, as he registered 119 knockdowns, including 18 touchdown-resulting blocks…Allowed only one quarterback sack on 423 pass plays and was penalized just once, finishing with an 87.85% grade for blocking consistency…Also recorded one solo tackle. All-American, started all 13 games at left tackle in '06. Missed time w/ankle injury. Played in final five games and started four games at left tackle in '05. All-Big Ten second team in '04. Did not see game action in '03.

Oh that's OK then, thanks for clearing that up.

I think clarification is needed. Yes, Jake Long can play LT in the NFL. But at the quality expected of a number 1 pick? No, not in my opinion or that of enough people to make you worry. Someone's opinion I really value said that he was Stephen Neal at left tackle. I suspect he might be an All Pro RT. But do you draft a RT with the first overall pick, especially when you have a Pro Bowl calibre RT on the team already?

No.

Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano better be certain that Jake can play LT at a high level if they intend to draft him. If they do, then so be it. If they're not 100% certain, then they can't take him. I've written earlier in the thread why I think he'll struggle in space outside.

 

[BlueFin]

What mock draft did I dismiss. The only mocks that showed Carey were the ones that I showed. I said clearly you might have some boards that had Carey going higher but the vast majority of mocks had him as a late first round to high second round pick. What mock did I dismiss and my opinion was not just based on mocks I was just showing an example. Nobody showed any proof of how teams had these guys rated. Minnesota admitted that they bamboozled us into trading up and no other team confirmed that they was going to trade up and get him. NE was not going to choose him over Vince Wilfork for sure. Shane Andrews had just went off the board and we somewhat overdrafted Carey because our GM went into panic mode. When it comes to the term reach its somewhat speculative, we needed a lineman and we took him slightly early. Much like this year with Ginn, nobody had Ginn rated to go this high but he was the next best player on offense that was not a running back so thats who we took since we liked him better than Quinn. Carey was very highly touted coming out of high school and somewhat less highly touted coming out of college. I love some on this board we disagree and no facts are shown that disprove me but my take gets attacked without any proof that I am incorrect. Not one draft source that I checked that year had Carey going that high. Sometimes players go higher when teams draft by need rather than BPA and that year we went by need. Most people thought we reached somehwhat on Ginn this year and almost no mock from any reputable source had him going this high. As for Houston picking him, its possible but I dont really buy it being that they had a great special teams player already and had much greater needs than WR. I'm pretty sure if Okaye is there and Ginn is there they still take Okaye. If you disagree with me fine but to bash my take is baseless especially the comment about me be duplicitous and thats par for the course for me. I tryed to support my argument and I get attacked for it, now thats funny. I never once attacked anyone's opinion, I only disagreed with it. Just because an opinion is not as popular on our board as others make it no less accurate or viable. Scott Wright and Mel Kiper as well as the majority of so called gurus had him rated to be drafted late first or early second.

Regardless of whether you or anyone else thought he was a reach at the time, the only thing that truly matters is the end result in grading a player.

Based on Vernon Careys career so far, I would have to say he was not a reach at all.

I remember when the Patriots drafted Logan Mankins (I think), he seemed like a reach, but obviously..................he wasn't.

 

[dlockz]

Regardless of whether you or anyone else thought he was a reach at the time, the only thing that truly matters is the end result in grading a player.

Based on Vernon Careys career so far, I would have to say he was not a reach at all.

I remember when the Patriots drafted Logan Mankins (I think), he seemed like a reach, but obviously..................he wasn't.

My only real complaint ever with the choice of Carey was that we gave away a 4th round pick because we were dumbazzes. Nobody was moving up to take Carey before us and if they did we had Wilfork which would have been a great choice for us also. I thought we drafted Carey too early but he would have definately been gone well before our next pick. We drafted based on need instead of BPA which I have no problem with. Wilfork overall had a higher grade but I agree we needed an olineman more.

With our draft history we should be thankful we chose Carey especially since there were alot of misses right after him.
The loss of the fourth made us have to trade our third rounder to pick up another 4th and a 5th. With that third rounder we could have drafted Matt Scwab, TRavelle Wharton or Shaun Phillips. Guys like Jacob Bell, Gibril Wilson and Jared Allen were available for our other pick.

No team wasted draft choices like us. Not to mention we traded the next year's second round pick for AJ Feeley in probably our worst and stupidest trade in history. Hopefully Ireland can work out some smart trades unlike the idiots like Speilman. So basically the biggest problem I had with the drafting of Carey is that we gave a pick for no damn reason but what else is new.

 

[fishypete]

Adam Schefter - * Let's be clear about this: Miami might have made a mistake drafting wide receiver Ted Ginn ahead of Brady Quinn, but it did not reach for him. Had the Dolphins passed on Ginn, the Houston Texans very likely would have taken Ginn one pick later at No. 10. Ginn was the player the Texans wanted. They envisioned lining him up as the home-run threat opposite Pro Bowl wide receiver Andre Johnson and giving them a pair of receivers that almost could equal Indianapolis' Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.

The key words are " very likely".....it doesn't say for sure...100% ....take it to the bank....but very likely....that to me means nothing. We could agrue back and forth forever about this....and we'll get nowhere...now more than ever I wish the Dolphins had selected Willis instead of Ginn...and the reason is as obvious now than it was last year.

 

[fishypete]

Oh that's OK then, thanks for clearing that up.

I think clarification is needed. Yes, Jake Long can play LT in the NFL. But at the quality expected of a number 1 pick? No, not in my opinion or that of enough people to make you worry. Someone's opinion I really value said that he was Stephen Neal at left tackle. I suspect he might be an All Pro RT. But do you draft a RT with the first overall pick, especially when you have a Pro Bowl calibre RT on the team already?

No.

Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano better be certain that Jake can play LT at a high level if they intend to draft him. If they do, then so be it. If they're not 100% certain, then they can't take him. I've written earlier in the thread why I think he'll struggle in space outside.

Boomer...frankly I don't see a lock on any of the top players at least the top 5 players that one can say is a sure item...they all have their good points and bad. I have yet to see any top notch draft expert say that Dorsey can be a nose tackle...and I would say the same for Ellis...at least what we fans believe to be a true nose tackle to be...is Ryan really a QB thats worth the top pick...or is he the better of the rest and left to be the top QB? Is either Long a sure bet...and worthy of the top pick...will the Dolphins play a true 3-4 or stay with the old defense...until we know that we don't know enough to judge whom will be the right pick. The Dolphins have so many positions to fill and it will be interesting to see which free agents are brought in..that may be our only way of guessing who gets the selection in the draft.

 

[TotoreMexico]

Adam Schefter - * Let's be clear about this: Miami might have made a mistake drafting wide receiver Ted Ginn ahead of Brady Quinn, but it did not reach for him. Had the Dolphins passed on Ginn, the Houston Texans very likely would have taken Ginn one pick later at No. 10. Ginn was the player the Texans wanted. They envisioned lining him up as the home-run threat opposite Pro Bowl wide receiver Andre Johnson and giving them a pair of receivers that almost could equal Indianapolis' Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.

The key words are " very likely".....it doesn't say for sure...100% ....take it to the bank....but very likely....that to me means nothing. We could agrue back and forth forever about this....and we'll get nowhere...now more than ever I wish the Dolphins had selected Willis instead of Ginn...and the reason is as obvious now than it was last year.

So please explain why their very next pick was a WR?

They were interested in Ginn and would have picked him if he was still on board, I'm 100% sure because I even asked Texans fans on different message boards after the draft

 

[fishypete]

So please explain why their very next pick was a WR?

They were interested in Ginn and would have picked him if he was still on board, I'm 100% sure because I even asked Texans fans on different message boards after the draft

When Texans fans make the pick...let me know...and if I wanted a certain player...and thought perhaps you would be interested in that player also...I would do what every team does....blow smoke....it's called deception. We will never know the truth...but it's certain we should have picked Willis over a returner with the 9th pick.